Where do you buy your HSS drill bits??? Online or in RDU area???

6BangBronk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Location
Durham
I needed a 5/8" HSS and couldn't find one anywhere except Fastennel. I left out of there feeling like a 12 y.o raped virgin this morning and $29 gone from my wallet... I KNOW they can't be that demanding???

I need 1/2" very regular. Fastennel was $18 for just one of them which seemed kinda reasonable. But the 5/8" hurt me.
 
Personally, I've never ordered from them, but at work, most of our stuff comes from MSC. We even have a "vending" machine of sorts that helps us keep track of items and machine tooling that we want to keep in stock and we make orders every quarter. They have reasonable pricing though and the most stuff you order, the more of a discount they'll work in the deal. They have really quick shipping too.

EDIT: You're right though, Fastenal will leave your ass feeling a little raw when you leave....unless you're buying bolts or other fasteners, in that case their prices aren't bad at all depending on what you need. Usually, when I need something they're the only ones who will have it in stock, so a few bucks for fasteners doesn't hurt my feelings.
 
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lowes carries 1/2" shank HSS bits up to 3/4" iirc, Hitachi brand.


Not Lowes in:
Raleigh on Glenwood
Cary on Walnut
Durham on Roxboro
Northern Tool in Cary
or Harbor Freight in Durham

1/2" is largest they carry in HSS. And only in cheap Dewalt China crap that dulls in seconds. They do carry Hitachi brand only in black oxide for wood and plastic. I looked, asked and even went to all the managers...
I was desperate til I found them at Wilers in Raleigh and went there last week. But decided Fastennel this morning to save me an hour of downtown rainny day Raleigh traffic hell...
 


There again... Exactly what I found at the store too. I'm needing good quality HSS for metal preferrably made in USA or quality compatible, not Black oxide for plastic and wood or any concrete drill bits...
 
There again... Exactly what I found at the store too. I'm needing good quality HSS for metal preferrably made in USA or quality compatible, not Black oxide for plastic and wood or any concrete drill bits...

I copied the wrong link for the masonry bit. They had metal too.
 
I've got a set of MAC tools HSS bits up to 3/8". I've been pleased, they work great. And if you break them they are lifetime warranty, as long as you dont overheat it. I checked their site and they offer a 5/8" bit. It a little pricy at $52, but if it guaranteed for life, sounds like a no brainer to me.
 
I've got a set of MAC tools HSS bits up to 3/8". I've been pleased, they work great. And if you break them they are lifetime warranty, as long as you dont overheat it. I checked their site and they offer a 5/8" bit. It a little pricy at $52, but if it guaranteed for life, sounds like a no brainer to me.


^^^Absolutely!^^^ I never knew MAC sold drill bits???

Met with gear head work buddies at the water cooler today and here's a take on what we all came up with:
Speed is a factor. As long as metal is chipping away and it's not singing, let it do it's thing. And until you know a bit, if it sings off the bat, either slow it down or speed it up to figure out your recommended bit speed for no 2 bits were designed equal. But most bits like as slowwwww as possible and should be tried first. And keep the cutting fluid heavy. I personally like the new sticky stuff in a spray can. And keep the contact as close to 90 degrees as possible for the contact surface to be consistant and to be easy on the flutes. Never angle the drill if all possible. And use a drill press or fixed jig at consistant exact 90 whenever all possible. Another thing is to keep the bit cool. Give it a break when 1'st sight of any smoke. And apply light pressure at all times...

About all we had besides the art of seeing an old timer or 2 sharpening on a bench grinder is absolutely amazing and should only be done by a pro. And drill doctors are nice, but shouldn't ever be needed. And if so, none of them go over 1/2".
 
About all we had besides the art of seeing an old timer or 2 sharpening on a bench grinder is absolutely amazing and should only be done by a pro. And drill doctors are nice, but shouldn't ever be needed. And if so, none of them go over 1/2".

@Spence sharpens his bits with a 4.5" flap wheel on an hand grinder, run and tell that homeboy.



...in the end, there is not much sweeter than finding a sharp-ass bit and letting it eat.
 
^^^Absolutely!^^^ I never knew MAC sold drill bits???

Met with gear head work buddies at the water cooler today and here's a take on what we all came up with:
Speed is a factor. As long as metal is chipping away and it's not singing, let it do it's thing. And until you know a bit, if it sings off the bat, either slow it down or speed it up to figure out your recommended bit speed for no 2 bits were designed equal. But most bits like as slowwwww as possible and should be tried first. And keep the cutting fluid heavy. I personally like the new sticky stuff in a spray can. And keep the contact as close to 90 degrees as possible for the contact surface to be consistant and to be easy on the flutes. Never angle the drill if all possible. And use a drill press or fixed jig at consistant exact 90 whenever all possible. Another thing is to keep the bit cool. Give it a break when 1'st sight of any smoke. And apply light pressure at all times...

About all we had besides the art of seeing an old timer or 2 sharpening on a bench grinder is absolutely amazing and should only be done by a pro. And drill doctors are nice, but shouldn't ever be needed. And if so, none of them go over 1/2".

The first half is fairly common sense, there are thousands of charts and calculators out there with feed and speed of various bits and materials. RPM = (Cutting Speed(in fpm) x 4)/Diameter . Do the math and figure it out for what you're cutting so you don't have to buy another $30 bit.
The second half is a little off, anyone can sharpen a bit with a grinder, angle finder and practice--and even the middle model drill DR does 3/4" bits. Doesn't matter how careful you are drilling, bits need sharpening--unless you like wasting time.
 
I've got a set of MAC tools HSS bits up to 3/8". I've been pleased, they work great. And if you break them they are lifetime warranty, as long as you dont overheat it. I checked their site and they offer a 5/8" bit. It a little pricy at $52, but if it guaranteed for life, sounds like a no brainer to me.
I bought the Mac cobalt bits up to 1/2. My guy covers them broke dull whatever. Love them.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 
and even the middle model drill DR does 3/4" bits. Doesn't matter how careful you are drilling, bits need sharpening--unless you like wasting time.

Drill Dr will put a new point on a broken one, too. Easy peasy.
 
My god. I need to go to the machine shop and throw all their black oxide bits in the trash! They're no good for the metal they've been drilling with them for decades!

Seriously, black ox is fine for metal, just need to be a little more careful. I think what are referring to are TIN coated HSS. The coating helps keep the bit cool...until you wear it off or sharpen it. Otherwise, it's the same bit as the black ones. I've made miles of beautiful chips with black bits in most metals. Stainless, bronze, steel, whatever. Use a good cutting fluid and that makes a big difference.

And speed is relative. I have a 1" cobalt that I use to bore through 3" steel, no pilot hole. It's rated at 1000 rpm. I run about 450 on a knee mill. It's awesome to watch it dig!
 
I don't know much about this kind of stuff, but any HSS drill bit is going to work best at about 100SFM max (surface feet per minute, calculated from the outside diameter) in steel, regardless of coating and material type. If its truly Cobalt and not just marketing "cobalt", then you can run it about 20-50% faster. What happens is with more speed, the bit heats up, and the metal begins to break down. The melting temperature between cheap Chinese steel and good American steel isn't really that different, but the quality of the metallurgy/coating/grinding can be, so that is why the US made stuff holds up better. Carbide drills are good for anywhere from 250-500SFM, so you can easily triple your cutting speed, and carbide also handles heat better, so you get much longer tool life at those speeds.

Other factors include feed rate and how stiffly held the part is. A drill in a drill press or milling machine will last much longer than a hand drill because the angles are good, the part is steady, and the feed rate is constant.

To calculate RPM's, multiply desired SFM * 12/pi * diameter. In this case, 100*(12/pi)*1=382rpm. You can certainly sneak it up to 500rpms for very short periods, but sustained speeds should be under 400rpms. SFM is effectively calculating how far the corner of the bit would travel if you are moving it in a straight line along the metal. So 300SFM is like dragging a drill bit along steel and cutting the entire length of a football field in 1 minute.
 
I got tired of all my Cheap ass bits. Bought my last set at Wholesale Tool/Charlotte. Got a Better set, not the Best, but I've been pleased with them. I've bought a fair amount of tools from them, & they have a large spread of Quality; get what you pay for! Charlotte is the closest regional store, & you can order on line. Check them out at, [www.wttool.com]
 
@jeepinmatt That was a pretty good explanation. If you run it too fast and push too hard, you'll work harden the material. Not so much of a concern on a low carbon, mild steel. A36 is a very common material and very easy to work with. Once you get up to A514, T1, or certain alloys, they'll work harden quicker than a cat can like it's ass!

Like you said with carbide, we triple the spindle speeds in most cases. A very easy to remember formula for speed is 3.82 x surface speed/diameter. More often than not, we'll use a surface speed of 80 fpm. If you do the math, 12/pi is 3.82, so it saves a step and that short formula was constantly pounded in to our minds when we (myself and the 3 guys I work with on night shift) were in school.

Seeing that you used a 1" drill in your equation, I'll do the same. 3.82x80/1= 305 rpm. Not a lot of difference and it usually doesn't matter if you're using a hand drill because most aren't very adjustable.

If you have a drill press, you can feel the bit doing the work with slight downward pressure once you get your RPMs right. Another tell tale sign are the chips the drill is putting out. You want them to be somewhat short and curled, not long and stringy or really small, sharp, and a burnt blue color. To get your feet rate (if applicable in a milling situation) you would take your 305 rpm and multiple it by the desired IPR (inches per revolution). For a 1" and larger drill, it's about .015-.025. I usually go easy drilling stuff at work, so if I was using a 1" HSS drill it would have these feeds and speeds:

305 rpm and a feed of 4.5 inches per minute. I'd probably use a lower feed rate though, a 1" drill would use up some horsepower.


If you ever get your hands on CNC or even manual milling equipment, you almost feel like hand drilling something is just archaic, cave man stuff! We also have some pretty badass drills at work. The Kaiser drills we use have an inner and outer coated carbide insert and we have them ranging from 1" to 2.5". I can bury the 2.5" drill in a 4" thick steel plate and make some serious chips! It would run something like 740 rpm at 4.5 inches per minute. We also use Sumo-Cham drills made by Iscar. Those little bastards are awesome! They have a replaceable carbide tip that just twists in and they use a surface speed of 350 inches per minute. A 1/2" Sumo runs 2674 rpm at 24 inches per minute.

If it's any indication of how fast some of these drills are, they are the fastest means we have (where I work) of removing material. If I had to cut a hole in the center of a plate, most of the time we'll drill out at much as we can and then finish with some other tooling like a carbide end mill. Plus, it helps extend the life of the end mills.


Sorry for the lecture :D I just like talking about machining and metal work!
 
@jeepinmatt
If you ever get your hands on CNC or even manual milling equipment, you almost feel like hand drilling something is just archaic, cave man stuff! We also have some pretty badass drills at work. The Kaiser drills we use have an inner and outer coated carbide insert and we have them ranging from 1" to 2.5". I can bury the 2.5" drill in a 4" thick steel plate and make some serious chips! It would run something like 740 rpm at 4.5 inches per minute. We also use Sumo-Cham drills made by Iscar. Those little bastards are awesome! They have a replaceable carbide tip that just twists in and they use a surface speed of 350 inches per minute. A 1/2" Sumo runs 2674 rpm at 24 inches per minute.
Since we are talking about drills, its still on topic...
Take a look at the Mapal TTD drills: http://www.mapal.com/en/products/product-groups/solid-carbide-tools/replaceable-head-drills/
Im a big Iscar fan, but these are supposed to have a 50% higher feed rate than the Sumocham and I love the head design. We use alot of Kennametal KSEM at work, and the problem with them is that when the head goes out, it takes the body with it. The Mapal's are about twice as expensive, but will protect the body because of the design. I've got one coming in for test soon.

For indexable drilling, you can't beat the KSEM Plus line. We run em at 400sfm 0.012ipr in 4140 on the smaller sizes. I've got a 107mm diameter 5xD sitting here to test next week. It weighs right at 80lbs.
 
I got tired of all my Cheap ass bits.

The purpose of my entire rant rodney... Kept the China POS $29 bit I got from Fastennel in my drill press last night at lowest setting and was only able to make 3 passes through 3/8 cold stock. And that was after making 2 incremental pilot passes to 1/2". My landscape trailer I'm building will never be finished by spring and will cost me a fortune unless I bite the bullet for something better.

On the other hand, the 1 experimental 1/2" HSS Dewalt bit I got from Lowes the other night with a pilot tip made into it was impressive for it was very controllable to get the holes started with my "hole hog" hand held milwaukee (at low speed). But after it finally dulled after about 10 passes, it is now obselete for there's no way to sharpen it. Unless I take it down to a regular tip.

I'm finding alot of the bits on the market are coated with a gloss that makes them fancy in appearance, but only a turd wrapped in silk all said and done.
 
Drill Dr will put a new point on a broken one, too. Easy peasy.

Got a friend who swears by his DD but he just bought his and he's the most analistic person I know when it comes to sharp tools. I think mine was one of the first experimental models. Bought it 15 years ago. Only about 1 out of 5 sharpenings is drill worthy.
 
The purpose of my entire rant rodney... Kept the China POS $29 bit I got from Fastennel in my drill press last night at lowest setting and was only able to make 3 passes through 3/8 cold stock. And that was after making 2 incremental pilot passes to 1/2". My landscape trailer I'm building will never be finished by spring and will cost me a fortune unless I bite the bullet for something better.

Pilot hole does not need to be any larger than the "split" or core of the bit...if it's larger, then you are doing all the cutting with just the outer portion of the entire cutting surface. Smaller pilot = longer bit life.
 
Pilot hole does not need to be any larger than the "split" or core of the bit...if it's larger, then you are doing all the cutting with just the outer portion of the entire cutting surface. Smaller pilot = longer bit life.


Explains why my 5/8 dulled so quick then. Thanks!
 
Smaller pilot = longer bit life.
With a controlled feed rate process such as milling or a drill press with power feed, that doesn't apply. Drills wear out at the outer edges 95% of the time, regardless of pilot hole or not. What happens when you have a pilot hole is the drill cuts easier because there is less metal to remove, so you are able to push the drill faster, which equates to a higher feed rate, which causes 1 of 2 things: 1. the corner overheats and melts off, or 2. the flutes rip at the corner because of the increased pressure.
 
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