Who pays for bad diagnostic work?

shelby27604

shelby27604

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Location
Efland NC
I dropped my 06 Cummins at the shop for an over voltage condition with the charging system. I had replaced all the battery cables and grounds hoping that was the root cause, when the gauge still pegged at 16V, I dropped it off at the man to sort out if it was a missed bad connection, bad ECU, bad alternator, etc.

I got a call yesterday "$700 for a new belt, alt, and tire balance/rotation".....I decided it is too cold to wrestle with the alternator in the driveway.... merry Christmas to me!

3 hours later, I get a call, "still have the same issue, looks like it needs an ECU".

What do you do here? I suspected the regulations circuit in the ECU was bad, but I am not one to lead a mechanic in their diagnosis....state problem, pay them for their diagnostic skills/tools (that is what they do). I feel like this was more of a parts cannon approach. My brain says an over voltage condition means the alt. Is unregulated....
 
Hopefully they take the new alternator off and just charge you for the ECM if you let them replace it. However, I have people come to me all the time that have had a shop replace things that didn't fix the issue and still charge them , let's hope your shop isn't one of those. If you want to replace the ECM on your own, I'd pay them whatever time it took to replace the alternator and get your truck to the house.
 
BIGWOODY said:
Hopefully they take the new alternator off and just charge you for the ECM if you let them replace it. However, I have people come to me all the time that have had a shop replace things that didn't fix the issue and still charge them , let's hope your shop isn't one of those. If you want to replace the ECM on your own, I'd pay them whatever time it took to replace the alternator and get your truck to the house.
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I was debating just bypassing the voltage regulator in the ECU with a kit. I have never had great luck with the longevity of that integrated system....and I don't want to find myself out on the road needing an ECU for a straight drive 5.9l. I am sure it is a 2 year production run specific part.
 
shelby27604 said:
I was debating just bypassing the voltage regulator in the ECU with a kit. I have never had great luck with the longevity of that integrated system....and I don't want to find myself out on the road needing an ECU for a straight drive 5.9l. I am sure it is a 2 year production run specific part.
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Didn't realize they made a bypass kit, I know what I'd be doing.
 
I'd skip the external regulator route all together and get a 1 wire conversion alternator.
 
At least it has (what looks like) a capacitor in the trigger/feed wire to keep the lights from pulsing. They definitely don't work well without one.

The one wire I was talking about is internally regulated and self exciting. Literally one wire. The nice thing about an external regulator is parts are easier to find in the event they crap out. Those regulators are very inexpensive and can be found anywhere! Same for the alternators, just a stock one with two more wires hooked to it.
 
Kind of sucks but now your almost 17 year old truck with ???k miles has a new alternator.
 
drkelly said:
Kind of sucks but now your almost 17 year old truck with ???k miles has a new alternator.
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If I have fired up the parts cannon, and thrown parts at a problem, without successfully fixing the issue....I will keep those parts on a vehicle. BUT if a mechanic installs a part without proper diagnostics, I am less inclined to pay $600 for a $150 alternator I didn't need.

Bypass kit ordered, garage said an ECU was 10 business days from when they placed the order, and they still hadn't figured out which PN they needed to order, or what it would cost.

I can't seem to find a garage that can handle anything but the simplest of issues....for the first time in my life I have more money than time and I waste more time trying to farm work out than if I just do it myself.
 
I think bare minimum I'd ask them to split the labor on a part they replaced without testing it. Granted, they have to pay their employees for the labor and they have to pay their supplier for the part, but just randomly throwing parts at a problem hoping that you pick the right one is NOT how a mechanic should operate (even though that's totally how I operate). Pull out a multimeter and test it in the vehicle before you pull it.
 
Who pays for bad diagnostics? YOU....... If my shop does work on something and it doesn't fix it i usually eat the labor. If it is something we can't pinpoint the problem i will call the customer and explain what is going on and let them choose what route they want to go and pay for. But i have quit doing mechanical work and just focus on autobody repair. Paint and oil don't mix to well.
 
I'm in the same dilemma with a lawn sprayer for work. I did my research and found that it could be several reasons why it wasnt operating properly so at first I went and bought all new hoses to put on it myself and then realized I could do all of this and if it didnt fix it , it all had to come back apart so I took it to a local trusted dealer/shop that I've used before and let them diagnose. They said upfront that they werent a dealer for the parts and would have to buy them from one of my regular suppliers so I said that I would get the parts that they specified once they diagnosed the issue. So after $500 in pump rebuild parts, pressure regulator, asst. small parts. they got it "fixed" and put back together and I did a quick test in my yard and it seemed okay but when I got to the job, unreeled the hose and started spraying it did the exact same thing. As it turns out my 400' sprayer hose has collapsed on the inside lining and it also has to be replaced. This shop charged me $700+ in labor and small fittings and did some items I didnt ask for. I used a pressure washer hose to show that it works with a good hose and videoed it so now I'm going back to them to ask for them to refund me at least half of that $700+ labor cost. I aso think they gouged me on the hours. I bought a pump unit so they wouldnt have to rebuild the whole pump and the regulator was two fittings to install. I know they won't do it but I'm going to try.
 
My company stopped doing business with a local tire shop, after using them for several years. They installed a dual set of tires, & the next day, the wheels almost fell off the truck! Impact or employee, did Something wrong. Ruined the studs & a hub. Had to call a wrecker, to get the truck back to a Repair shop. Wrecker driver was scared to tow it, & ordered a low boy. Parts, labor, & towing, = over $2000! Boss spoke to the Tire shop about the issue, politely asking for some Help on this. Tire shop said they weren't responsible. I would "Think" they would have insurance to cover this. Anyway, they refused to pay anything. Sad for Us, as they are so convenient to us, & have good pricing. Sad for Them, as they loose a Very good customer! :mad:
 
R Q said:
I'm in the same dilemma with a lawn sprayer for work. I did my research and found that it could be several reasons why it wasnt operating properly so at first I went and bought all new hoses to put on it myself and then realized I could do all of this and if it didnt fix it , it all had to come back apart so I took it to a local trusted dealer/shop that I've used before and let them diagnose. They said upfront that they werent a dealer for the parts and would have to buy them from one of my regular suppliers so I said that I would get the parts that they specified once they diagnosed the issue. So after $500 in pump rebuild parts, pressure regulator, asst. small parts. they got it "fixed" and put back together and I did a quick test in my yard and it seemed okay but when I got to the job, unreeled the hose and started spraying it did the exact same thing. As it turns out my 400' sprayer hose has collapsed on the inside lining and it also has to be replaced. This shop charged me $700+ in labor and small fittings and did some items I didnt ask for. I used a pressure washer hose to show that it works with a good hose and videoed it so now I'm going back to them to ask for them to refund me at least half of that $700+ labor cost. I aso think they gouged me on the hours. I bought a pump unit so they wouldnt have to rebuild the whole pump and the regulator was two fittings to install. I know they won't do it but I'm going to try.
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H&H?
 
Well, at the end of the day I paid $150 labor for what we will call a diagnostic fee.....I was 90% sure it had to be the voltage regulator circuit in the ECU.....I should have just threw parts at it. I had 4 check engine codes active and battery terminals that were loose when I picked up the truck.
 
R Q said:
Yep
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Ha! Was in there a few weeks ago to price a small 50gal-ish rig to spray liquid fert for color beds. I think I did a great job not laughing at their price and lead time. I hate using them for little things like hose fittings because of what they charge but they are conveniently located to mint hill. As for your pump rebuild situation, I visibly flinched at their cost on that when I asked them. Figured it couldn't be that hard. The pump manufacturer even has YouTube videos for the rebuild. Took 30 min and was fairly cheap for the kit.

TLDR: They're too proud of their shit.
 
willness33 said:
Ha! Was in there a few weeks ago to price a small 50gal-ish rig to spray liquid fert for color beds. I think I did a great job not laughing at their price and lead time. I hate using them for little things like hose fittings because of what they charge but they are conveniently located to mint hill. As for your pump rebuild situation, I visibly flinched at their cost on that when I asked them. Figured it couldn't be that hard. The pump manufacturer even has YouTube videos for the rebuild. Took 30 min and was fairly cheap for the kit.

TLDR: They're too proud of their shit.
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Yeah, I was pushed and know how crap dominoes into a shitstorm and I've used them before and trusted them as good ole boys. Good Ole Boy was I wrong! :laughing:
 
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