winch application guide

jeep9mm

New Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
Charlotte, Wilmington
Okay someone explain what winch capacity is appropriate? I have heard the 1.5 times the vehicles weight as the rule of thumb? Does everyone agree with that? Because I am buying a winch soon like i said in another post and it would be a 9000 lbs TMAX...but then i did some math and realized that if the Jeep, stock weighs 3300 lbs (4cyl, manual tranny) lets say with bigger tires and other stuff I weight 3800 (being extra generous just in case i ever go bigger or what not.) 1.5 times 3800 is 5700...so shouldnt i be golden with a tmax 6500 and save some cash and weight up front?

I know an argument might be what if I need to winch a full size vehicle...well i mean im all for helping someone in the trail but if it puts my winch in risk then id politely say sorry to the owner of the full size rig.

Is there anything at all wrong with my hypothesis? Do you think that under some situations a 6500 lbs winch would not pull a TJ without the use of a snatch block?
The specs on the EW 6500 are as follows:
5.5 hp series wound motor
gears 3 stage planetary
gear ratio 172.8:1
clutch: shift pin ring gear
anything in those specs you dont like? anything that seems low quality?

thanks ROD
 
thats pushing ur luck with the 6500. go with the 9500. it will make a big difference or u have to recover a larger vehicle, or u get ur self really stuck :flipoff2:
 
no less than 8k for anything bigger than a Sami, there's yer rule of thumb.. ;)
 
ahh damn...what makes say a warn m8k rated to pull more than this ew6500 if the motor is bigger on the 6500...is it the gearing since the m8000 does have higher gearing than the tmax?

i trust what youre sayin rich, can you give me a scenario in which a 6500 lbs winch couldnt pull a 3500lbs vehicle, like is this likely? or its just one of those things that it can happen and u dont want your winch to fail u at that time?
 
Maybe you forget that when you're lodged in a hole or stuck over the tires in mud...you're pulling much more than just the vehicle's weight. Most tow straps are rated for 20k lb minimum, but they still break all of the time. Winches just typically stall before reaching the line's ultimate strength. Also...why Tmax?
 
braxton357 said:
Maybe you forget that when you're lodged in a hole or stuck over the tires in mud...you're pulling much more than just the vehicle's weight. Most tow straps are rated for 20k lb minimum, but they still break all of the time. Winches just typically stall before reaching the line's ultimate strength. Also...why Tmax?
Click to expand...

:stupid:


PLenty of scenerios.

Low air pressure is more drag
terrain, more drag,
Mud bog, more drag
pulling up, and not flat,....more drag.

Yes, most times you can "help" it with your drive train, sometimes not.

Smaller winches often have smaller cable
the weight difference isn't that great

you will be sorry if you go with anything less than an 8000lb winch. "My thinking, is there's no success like excess" not that it applies here since this is minimal.
 
I understand I will be pulling much more than my vehicles weight, im just wondering if i will pull more than roughly 1.7 times my weight. But im leaning to a yes...ill just see the price difference.

Why Tmax? Why not Tmax ive not heard anything bad, they are not a new company theyre a new company to us...its been in australia for years. And one of the more trusted names in NC 4x4ing (crsu) told me theyve had less problems with tmax lately than with warn 8k and that he would take care of me with any warranty issues? I agree that warn is good...but that doesnt mean its the only good brand
 
I have always been told double the vehicle weight would help compensate when you are stuck. I have a 9000 lb winch on my Wrangler and it was just enough to pull my broken Jeep up a ledge the last time I went wheeling. I had to rely on the winch cause the wasnt running it had busted a radiator hose and was over heating badly.

Is that the sort of example you were looking for.
 
If I am remembering, the rating of a winch is pulling a vehicle on level ground. That by itself should let you know why ya need more.

Warn has a well-earned reputation for building products that last. Hatton's M8000 is now over 13 years old, and is still pulling strong, and used frequently.
 
Think about this.. To get optimum yield out of a winch or its max pulling power, you need to be close to the drum. If you get a bigger winch you don't necessarily have to unwind the whole damn thing everytime. Get what I am saying?
 
if you've never read this:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html


you ought to take a minute to read through it...

you have to take into account:

surface resistance
damage resistance
stuck resistance
grade resistance


that being said...there are several witnesses here that watched my 12K winch pull a 7500lb Bobcat up a steep incline, in some greasy red clay where it was getting ZERO traction...just a straight pull, no snatch block...(and using synthetic rope, which made them a believer when the tow strap snapped)...

no way I would've attempted it with an 8K winch...

and Wolfpack makes a GREAT point a lot of people forget about...the winch rating is on the first wrap...the last (3rd, 4th, 5th) wraps don't have much power...



Greg
 
jeep9mm said:
Why Tmax? Why not Tmax ive not heard anything bad, they are not a new company theyre a new company to us...its been in australia for years. And one of the more trusted names in NC 4x4ing (crsu) told me theyve had less problems with tmax lately than with warn 8k and that he would take care of me with any warranty issues? I agree that warn is good...but that doesnt mean its the only good brand
Click to expand...

I've read plenty of complaints on pbb, and just looking at the internals shows that without a doubt they aren't as well built as warn and are almost the exact same as the milemarker with the exception of a bearing where a bushing would normally be... At first I also defended the t-max just like you, until I found out the people selling them were not only full of shit...but were completely wrong about the actual product. If you're going to go that route, save money and go with the milemarker or harbor freight winch instead.
 
braxton357 said:
At first I also defended the t-max just like you, until I found out the people selling them were not only full of shit...but were completely wrong about the actual product.
Click to expand...


That's a pretty dang harsh statement against a well known, very knowledgable member of this forum. I anxously await his reply!
 
Moving this to tech, as there's some decent info coming out...

Don't underestimate Wolfpack's point (Which I was a tool to forget)..

On the second from the top wrap (Where I usually wind up pulling from), the M8000 is rated for 6670lbs. the TM 9k is 7237, and the 6500 is only 4000.
 
Lots of good stuff here.

I look at it like this.
My winch is my last line of defense, my last resource, my last safety cushion. I rely on it to be there without question, every time. It is a piece of mind that I have to have. Because if I get into a situation and need it, and it doesn't work, I'm in a very bad way.... very bad.
I don't mean stuck in a mud hole with 6 of my friends cheering me on either. I mean xx miles up a trail in the middle of the night with one other (full size) vehicle that has a nasty roll over. Loses power and breaks a front axle off at the spring (no steering, no engine). His winch burned out that night. I ran my hs9500i allllllllllllllllll night and into the next morning to get him out. It never got hot and it never quit. I couldn't just politely say "no, I don't want to jeopardize my winch, see ya all at camp vroooommmmmmm"

I ran the piss out of that winch on little buffalo too. And if it didn't work what would I have done? Just sat there. I have to have a good piece of mind that I am capable of getting myself out of those situations or I wouldn't have any fun wheeling. I'd be worried all the time. That's just me.

That's why I believe in over kill when buying a winch. Go twice the weight of the vehicle (minimum) and get a name brand. Get a good battery. This is a purchase that you will most likely only make once. You may swap it from vehicle to vehicle for the next 20 years. It will make you feel good when you wheel, knowing it is there.

damn, that reads like a sermon, sorry :D :beer:



edit:
At the badlands this summer I was riding with a friend in his 1-ton CJ-7 (built vehicle with lot's of bling... we were big pimpin :D ). We were riding with a group of about 7. The guy in front of us, lost his coil in a big mud hole. We stopped on the other side of a small hill (behind him... hill between us) to winch him out of the bigass mud hole. While winching him, the wires got hot in the 8274 and it wouldn't shut off. The solenoid was stuck on. Mass chaos was soon under way, as the Jeeps slowly got closer and closer. I jumped out and stepped on the front tire (passenger side) to see if I could so something. I didn't have a wrench to disconnect any wires so I jerked the clutch out disengaging it into a free spool. At this point the Jeep (and tire), I was standing on, started to roll backwards. I looked up to see the driver standing on the front bumper looking at me :eek: . We were on one of those trails that had eroded and had big walls on the sides. So when I finally fell off of the tire I couldn't get out from under the Jeep. I had to crawl, between the front and rear tires, at the same speed as the Jeep was rolling backwards to keep from getting run over.

I don't know if that story made any sense...lol

After many recaps we decided that we both had made several bad choices in a matter of seconds. We learned from it and moved on. He bought a brand new 8274-50 that next Monday....
 
Caver Dave said:
But I have to ask why it wasn't in PARK? :confused:
Click to expand...

if you winch with the vehicle in park, i don't wanna be anywhere near it. Ever see a parking pawl? They're tiny.

Throw that fawker in neutral and stand on the brakes and e-brake (if ya have one)
 
The visual of you & Ricky doing "the tango" under the rolling Jeep has truely made my day! :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

Ricky fell the other way, and was scrambling to get back in the Jeep and stop it. When he never saw me come back up, he thought I had been run over. He said he was already thinking about how he would have to tell Jill (my wife) that he had killed me :lol: :lol: I couldn't climb up that hill and kept falling back under the Jeep. I had bogger tracks on my right arm from pushing off of the tire. It was fuggin scary.....
 
Rich said:
if you winch with the vehicle in park, i don't wanna be anywhere near it. Ever see a parking pawl? They're tiny.

Throw that fawker in neutral and stand on the brakes and e-brake (if ya have one)
Click to expand...


He had it in reverse, which probably saved me, it slowed the roll to a crawl.
 
Rich said:
if you winch with the vehicle in park, i don't wanna be anywhere near it. Ever see a parking pawl? They're tiny.

Throw that fawker in neutral and stand on the brakes and e-brake (if ya have one)
Click to expand...

Exactly!.... but you'd sure as hell never jump out without it being in park & the engine off!
 
Aaron871 said:
After many recaps we decided that we both had made several bad choices in a matter of seconds. We learned from it and moved on. He bought a brand new 8274-50 that next Monday....
Click to expand...

like I said, it happened real fast

Things get complicated when you start winching, and more so when you have a second vehicle involved. And then, when you have a malfunction like that, where time is running out in front of your eyes and your about to have a Major Malfunction... well.... :beer: shit happens. Dave, I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, just trying to paint the picture a little better. :) Ricky is a good, seasoned, and safe driver. But there just isn't a lot of room for sub par and miss-operating winches on some of these trail rides.
 
Oh, BTW,
It just so happens that the winch wires in the solenoid got hot and melted together. So it was doomed..

But, I have seen solenoids get so hot from being overworked that they "stick" in the on position until you disconnect the power and let them cool off. Another good argument for getting a winch that isn't the bare minimum. I remember when elusive was winching Neil up Dutch John. He started beating the top of his winch with something trying to get it to shut off :D I ended up winching Neil the rest of the way up the hill and ruined a bran new cable in the process... oh.. good times :D
 
Also a good reason to get a monster sized master disco switch and running *everything* through it... That would be spooky having a fast winch get fused in the "on" position.
 
braxton357 said:
Also a good reason to get a monster sized master disco switch and running *everything* through it... That would be spooky having a fast winch get fused in the "on" position.
Click to expand...

Yep - good answer.
But I tend to like a winch on its own disco. That way you can kill it w/o killing everything else.

Either way would have prevented the above from going from an "aw crap" to an "AWWW SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEET"

Of course - mine is just jerry wired quick and dirty.
But it SHOULD be ......
Bla bla bla...
 
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