Winch help

marty79

marty79

the LS Swap Guy
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Location
Conover, NC
Hot wired motor, works fine both ways. Solenoid only clicks. Cleaned everything really good still nothing.
The Yell and BLK wires going to motor both have constant 12+ ??? Is this right or ...
Just trying to figure out if I crossed a wire or not. Thank you
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Right now the top most post in picture with little red wire is 12+ feed. Thanks for any help
 

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rodney eppes said:
Google a diagram. All I got.
Click to expand...
I have but no luck finding out what wires are hot at what point.
It would seem the solenoid but weird that both F1 and F2 terminals are hot in the "neutral" switch position, that's what has me puzzled unless I'm overthinking it
 
I'm bad with wiring, but the winch controller, usually has 4 wires. 2 run one solenoid, & the other 2, runs the other. In & Out. Don't remember if maybe the relay, reverses or just what. Someone on here will know. Give it a day or 2!
 
That solenoid is prolly full of water and corrosion. You could try to take it apart and clean it but those solenoids are cheap enough on amazon.


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marty79 said:
I did, so it does seem those are hot at all times and the ground does the switching unless I misunderstood. Confirms bad solenoid I reckon. Thanks
Click to expand...

You misunderstood, somewhat.

The winch is a series field DC motor, so it has an armature winding (A and ground are the two ends of that winding) and a field winding (F1 and F2 are the two ends of that winding). Those windings are in series, and the motor works when power are applied to both windings.

So the contactor pack does three things at once.
  1. It applies power to the windings
  2. It connects the armature winding to the field winding, in series
  3. It changes the polarity that power is applied to the field winding, to change the motor direction

The easiest way to check the solenoid is to disconnect all the winch cables from the solenoid, and test the solenoid by itself. Then you don't have the motor windings connecting things together and making things confusing.

So disconnect the 3 winch cables from the solenoid, and then test the solenoid. Keep the battery and everything else connected to the solenoid.


rodney eppes said:
I'm bad with wiring, but the winch controller, usually has 4 wires. 2 run one solenoid, & the other 2, runs the other. In & Out. Don't remember if maybe the relay, reverses or just what.
Click to expand...

Kinda. Both solenoids to the same thing, they just reverse the field winding polarity. Only one solenoid is active at a time, so the output terminals are connected in a different order depending on which solenoid is active.

So if solenoid one is active, it connects power to the first end of the field winding (say F1), and connects the second end of the field winding (say F2) to the armature winding (A). The winch rotates in one direction.

If solenoid two is active, it connects power to the second end of the field winding (F2), and connects the first end of the field winding (F1) to the armature winding (A). Then the winch goes in the other direction.
 
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So here's how it works. I looked at the Albright datasheet on one of the contactors, and then scribbled this out at Wendy's in about 45 seconds while waiting for my burger (it's a little quick and sloppy, I know).

These are the three possible solenoid states, and you can trace the current flow that is happening during each one (see my previous post). Notice how the contacts connect the armature winding to the field winding, and how the polarity reverses depending on which of the two solenoids engaged inside the contactor pack.

Note that both solenoids are never engaged at the same time. They're either both off, or one of them is on. I didn't draw the solenoid coils (the small terminals on the contactor pack) because they don't add anything to the diagram.

I honestly don't know which direction is which, but it doesn't matter for troubleshooting. It's just two solenoids and two sets of electrical contacts that both work the same.

Once the winch is disconnected from the contactor pack, you can troubleshoot the contactor in a few minutes with a multimeter.

This is how you learn how something works, instead of replacing components blindly.

Albright1.jpg
 
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Fabrik8 said:
So here's how it works. I looked at the Albright datasheet on one of the contactors, and then scribbled this out at Wendy's in about 45 seconds while waiting for my burger (it's a little quick and sloppy, I know).

These are the three possible solenoid states, and you can trace the current flow that is happening during each one (see my previous post). Notice how the contacts connect the armature winding to the field winding, and how the polarity reverses depending on which of the two solenoids engaged inside the contactor pack.

Note that both solenoids are never engaged at the same time. They're either both off, or one of them is on. I didn't draw the solenoid coils (the small terminals on the contactor pack) because they don't add anything to the diagram.

I honestly don't know which direction is which, but it doesn't matter for troubleshooting. It's just two solenoids and two sets of electrical contacts that both work the same.

Once the winch is disconnected from the contactor pack, you can troubleshoot the contactor in a few minutes with a multimeter.

This is how you learn how something works, instead of replacing components blindly.

View attachment 303065
Click to expand...

So I need to stack 3 or 4 control arms together to weld the contactor plate out of?
 
Fabrik8 said:
So here's how it works. I looked at the Albright datasheet on one of the contactors, and then scribbled this out at Wendy's in about 45 seconds while waiting for my burger (it's a little quick and sloppy, I know).

These are the three possible solenoid states, and you can trace the current flow that is happening during each one (see my previous post). Notice how the contacts connect the armature winding to the field winding, and how the polarity reverses depending on which of the two solenoids engaged inside the contactor pack.

Note that both solenoids are never engaged at the same time. They're either both off, or one of them is on. I didn't draw the solenoid coils (the small terminals on the contactor pack) because they don't add anything to the diagram.

I honestly don't know which direction is which, but it doesn't matter for troubleshooting. It's just two solenoids and two sets of electrical contacts that both work the same.

Once the winch is disconnected from the contactor pack, you can troubleshoot the contactor in a few minutes with a multimeter.

This is how you learn how something works, instead of replacing components blindly.

View attachment 303065
Click to expand...
Thank you for all the technical advise. My understanding now is according to the drawing, F1 and F2 should Not have power at the same time ? Correct? Which would mean a break or something in the solenoid. Now I'm just trying to learn. Thank you
 
marty79 said:
Thank you for all the technical advise. My understanding now is according to the drawing, F1 and F2 should Not have power at the same time ? Correct? Which would mean a break or something in the solenoid. Now I'm just trying to learn. Thank you
Click to expand...

If your contactor pack is slightly different, the default position of the solenoids might be opposite from my drawing, or the battery and A terminal may be flipped, so they may have power all the time when not engaged. It wouldn't change the way the contactor pack works, because you're still just toggling one of the solenoids on/off to put power to the motor.

I'm telling you though, don't try to troubleshoot it with the motor connected, because it will probably get confusing.

Do you hear a solenoid click when engaging in both directions?

You may have something hooked up incorrectly, dunno. Are there any instructions with that unit, or part numbers?
 
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Basically, to echo @Fabrik8 :

The wires to the winch(disconnected) should either when inactive:
A. Both have 12+V
B. Both have ground.

When one solenoid is active:
A or B should be 12+V
and
B or A should be ground.

When the other solenoid is active;
It should be reversed from when the other is active.

In simpler terms yet:
If the motor works with direct power and the solenoids/winch/remote are wired clean & properly & winch motor doesn't run, it's the solenoid pack failed (internal poor connections)
 
Fabrik8 said:
Substitute "zero volts" for "ground". Nothing in the contactor is connected to ground.
Click to expand...
i suppose in the sense of Earth ground.. always considered battery negative as "ground" (seeing how frame & body are connected)..

I think I see why. Your diagrams show the other common side of the contactor going to the armature, the winches I've played with, don't have a separate armature winding..
 
a_kelley said:
i suppose in the sense of Earth ground.. always considered battery negative as "ground" (seeing how frame & body are connected)..

I think I see why. Your diagrams show the other common side of the contactor going to the armature, the winches I've played with, don't have a separate armature winding..
Click to expand...

Yes, nothing in the contactor is connected to battery negative (ground). ;) You've probably only played with permanent magnet winches, which are usually only a two terminal design and reverse power and ground connections to change motor direction.

One of the ends of the armature winding goes to ground, but that's a terminal on the motor case with no direct connection to the contactor.
 
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Fabrik8 said:
Yes, nothing in the contactor is connected to battery negative (ground). ;)

One of the ends of the armature winding goes to ground, but that's a terminal on the motor case with no direct connection to the contactor.
Click to expand...
not to derail, but then are all not permanent magnet winches (series wound?) set up that way, or are some setup without a separate armature winding? I've got a 6k and a 8k but hadn't looked close at the 8k yet, never even tested it..
 
Fabrik8 said:
Do you hear a solenoid click when engaging in both directions?
Click to expand...
yeah it clicks in both ways, much louder click in one than the other
Jody Treadway said:
Did you tap it with a hammer yet?
Click to expand...
yes several times lol.
I've cleaned everything, stripped every wire off and brushed all wires and contacts and still a click. then I hot wired the motor, all worked so now just figuring the solenoid part.
Oh and mine only has 1 solenoid not 2 btw, it's just a one pack. I'll get to messing with it tomorrow again with some of these tests. Thanks
 
Anchor-Windlass-Reverse-Solenoid-Control-Box-For-Marine-Boat-Anchor-Winch-12V-1500W-Max.jpg

thats what I have
 
except no schematic on it or labels. It's 3-4 yrs old now, but hardly used lol. it was covered too
 
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