Wrong Turn - Seat belts and air bags

shawn

shawn

running dog lackey of the oppressor class
Administrator
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Mar 13, 2005
Location
Raleigh, NC
@jeepinmatt 's recent post in the pichurs thread and other recent events reminded me of this article, so I went and found out again.

It's fascinating, and I recommend reading the whole thing. But if your attention span isn't that long, this is a key takeaway:

1. Seat belts reduce the risk of fatality by 43%.
2. Seat belts with air bags reduce the risk of fatality by 47%.
3. Air bags used alone reduce the risk of fatality by only 13%.

gladwell dot com - wrong turn
 
shawn said:
@jeepinmatt 's recent post in the pichurs thread and other recent events reminded me of this article, so I went and found out again.

It's fascinating, and I recommend reading the whole thing. But if your attention span isn't that long, this is a key takeaway:

1. Seat belts reduce the risk of fatality by 43%.
2. Seat belts with air bags reduce the risk of fatality by 47%.
3. Air bags used alone reduce the risk of fatality by only 13%.

gladwell dot com - wrong turn
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Your right about the attention span but its suprising to me that's its only a 4% increase when a bag is combined w a belt.I figured it would be higher,at least 50%.
 
Long read, well worth it. I've always been a huge proponent of seat belts. Even in college I would make all my friends buckle up before I would go. I'd tell em that I didnt really care if they wore their seat belts, but I didn't want them slamming into me and causing injury.

A strange evolution of seat belts is child seats. 5 point harnesses, side impact protection, excellent mounting, strong frames, etc. Generally speaking, if it's safer for the child, it's safer for the adults, but almost none of it is adapted to adult seating. Not that it matters because adults are foolish and lazy, and couldn't stand the lack of convenience and difficulty of reaching our phones.
 
I got into this conversation with someone a while back. They stated that if a NASCAR or F1 driver could survive an accident when they drive that fast, why can't someone going much slower. Like @jeepinmatt said: All about that 5 point harness and seat position.
 
Futbalfantic said:
I got into this conversation with someone a while back. They stated that if a NASCAR or F1 driver could survive an accident when they drive that fast, why can't someone going much slower. Like @jeepinmatt said: All about that 5 point harness and seat position.
Click to expand...

Also, helmet, head/neck restraint, soft barriers, excellent reflexes and training, etc.
 
Airbags hurt when they pop you in the face, but it's better than the steering wheel. I'll never forget the smell either.

Also, on the 12th I had a friend die in a wreck. No seatbelt and he was ejected from the vehicle...that said, I always wear mine. Usually even when I move my truck in my own yard. It's a habit.
 
I just don't understand why people would not wear a seat belt. I don't find them the least restrictive or uncomfortable. Maybe that's b/c I'm not a particularly "wide" guy? Or just habit? I actually feel weird not wearing one.

When we were kids, my parents would not even start the car until everybody was belted. No exceptions. In fact we had a game, the last person to buckle their belt was "the green pig" and had to oink 3 times. This led to natural habit of an immediate race when we jumped in the car. When a friend rode w/ us they'd just look at us like we were crazy, lol.

I'm not surprised that airbags don't add much on top of the belts. For decades now cars have been crash tested and designed based on the assumption of wearing a belt and where bodies go/don't under that condition, and try to keep parts out of that space.
Croatan_Kid said:
I'll never forget the smell either.
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No shit. Only had it happen once and any time I smell anything close it immediately comes back to me.
Beats the smell of blood in your mouth though.
 
When I worked at the junkyard they threw out a bunch of old bags.We got a bunch of em and set em off.Put em in stuff to see what would happen,ect.The early bags (80's Ford Taurus for example) were waay more violent than the later ones.
 
The first 4 cars/trucks/FJ40 I drove didn't have seat belts. 30 years ago I T boned a 4 door car that spun out in the rain on I-40 driving the 84 in my sig w my seatbelt on. I stiff armed the wheel but the seatbelt left bruises on my shoulder/neck and gave me whiplash and neck injuries that still bother me and may need surgery soon. I drove the bashed truck home after the wreck. I think I would be better off today if I hadn't had the seatbelt on that day. I do wear seatbelts today automatically in town/city, not so much riding to the beach and back or out in the country.
 
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mommucked said:
The first 4 cars/trucks/FJ40 I drove didn't have seat belts. 30 years ago I T boned a 4 door car that spun out in the rain on I-40 driving the 84 in my sig w my seatbelt on. I stiff armed the wheel but the seatbelt left bruises on my shoulder/neck and gave me whiplash and neck injuries that still bother me and may need surgery soon. I drove the bashed truck home after the wreck. I think I would be better off today if I hadn't had the seatbelt on that day. I do wear seatbelts today automatically in town/city, not so much riding to the beach and back or out in the country.
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Since we're speculating, I think you would have been throw from the vehicle and bled out on the interstate or been ran over. If you had stayed in the vehicle, you probably would have been imprinted by the steering column, dash, and everything else around you. Everyone in the wreck I witnessed walked away except the one guy not wearing his seatbelt. I'm thankful you were wearing your seatbelt so you could be here on nc4x4 to post stuff that makes me laugh!
 
If you want to read some terrifying shit, I'll find the article about partial overlap collisions. You'll hug the right shoulder from now on.
 
My BIL is paralyzed from his sternum down because of not wearing his seatbelt. Went out the extra cab window of his Tacoma and the bed severed his spine.
 
shawn said:
Also, helmet, head/neck restraint, soft barriers, excellent reflexes and training, etc.
Click to expand...

Roll cages! Noone mentioned this, unless I missed it.

We discussed this back in the ECORS days. Not that we had a bunch of data or testing to backup this Theory but....
5 point harness in cars with no roll cage would lead to lots of beheadings in roll over crashes.
The harness would keep you completely upright in the seat, while the top crushes down.
Seems a factory lap/shoulder style would allow for more body movement in terms of leaning sideways when the roof collapses.
 
Dylan W. said:
Roll cages! Noone mentioned this, unless I missed it.

We discussed this back in the ECORS days. Not that we had a bunch of data or testing to backup this Theory but....
5 point harness in cars with no roll cage would lead to lots of beheadings in roll over crashes.
The harness would keep you completely upright in the seat, while the top crushes down.
Seems a factory lap/shoulder style would allow for more body movement in terms of leaning sideways when the roof collapses.
Click to expand...
If you read the really long thing that @shawn posted, it did mention rollover protection. Definitely a major component of safety. Honestly with a good structure around you, a strong, well mounted seat, and a proper bodily restraint, there is no need for airbags. With all that said, crush zones have probably saved more lives than anything. It's all about mitigating deceleration rate. First, you want the vehicle to take as long as possible to stop (crush zones), then you want the occupant to stay attached to the vehicle (seat belts) so that there is no secondary impact, and protected from impaling/flying glass/other vehicle/road/etc (rollover protection via roof structure, door beams, safety glass, etc). With all of the government overreach in other areas, it surprises me there hasn't been more mandate of both useful and pointless safety features. The libertarian me thinks seatbelts should not be legally required, and the engineer me still buckles up every single time.
 
Exactly...seat belts shouldn't be mandated. However, if my insurance is cheaper because they are, well, shit....let's mandate them. Oh well.
 
1-tonmudder said:
Your right about the attention span but its suprising to me that's its only a 4% increase when a bag is combined w a belt.I figured it would be higher,at least 50%.
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The injury rate is significant I would imagine

I've witnessed countless wrecks. I have seen a few where the driver walked with no seatbelt
IMG_20171111_081656486_HDR.jpg


I've also witnessed people die wearing their seatbelt. BY FAR 99.999% of my experiences, seatbelt saved lives out injury.

jeepinmatt said:
Long read, well worth it. I've always been a huge proponent of seat belts. Even in college I would make all my friends buckle up before I would go. I'd tell em that I didnt really care if they wore their seat belts, but I didn't want them slamming into me and causing injury.

A strange evolution of seat belts is child seats. 5 point harnesses, side impact protection, excellent mounting, strong frames, etc. Generally speaking, if it's safer for the child, it's safer for the adults, but almost none of it is adapted to adult seating. Not that it matters because adults are foolish and lazy, and couldn't stand the lack of convenience and difficulty of reaching our phones.
Click to expand...
When child seats are not properly installed they are useless. Over half of the time (in my experience) the child seats are not installed correctly.

IF YOU NEED HELP INSTALLING CHILD SEATS, STOP BY YOUR LOCAL FD OR PD FOR ASSISTANCE! THEY ARE TRAINED!
 
GotWood said:
IF YOU NEED HELP INSTALLING CHILD SEATS, STOP BY YOUR LOCAL FD OR PD FOR ASSISTANCE! THEY ARE TRAINED!
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IME, FD won't touch them due to department insurance regulations. YMMV, clearly.

Edit: also, the biggest problem we have is that other people leave the 5pt loose. If somebody else straps our kids in, we back check it, and can often take out an inch or two of slack.
 
Not argueing that the odds improve with seat belts but there are the exceptions. I am only alive because that one day i wasnt wearing one. I was ejected and was bleeding on the side of the interstate. But the man next to me wasnt as lucky. Had we been wearing them, both would have not survived. Both were not, only one survived. And in case youre wondering that day lives with me even 9 years later, probably always will..
 
shawn said:
IME, FD won't touch them due to department insurance regulations. YMMV, clearly.

Edit: also, the biggest problem we have is that other people leave the 5pt loose. If somebody else straps our kids in, we back check it, and can often take out an inch or two of slack.
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We have certified installers at our departments. It's a one a year 2hr con-ed for us.
 
shawn said:
Edit: also, the biggest problem we have is that other people leave the 5pt loose. If somebody else straps our kids in, we back check it, and can often take out an inch or two of slack.
Click to expand...

No shit! I can't believe the amount of people I see barely putting their kids in a car seat. Hell, one of my friends used to let their kids buckle himself and they didn't tighten it. Thank God they didn't have a wreck during his young years.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
 
RatLabGuy said:
I just don't understand why people would not wear a seat belt.
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I wore my seatbelt as required starting at age 16 when I first began driving. The summer after my senior year in high school I got a job delivering pizza for Dominos. Getting in and out of the car so frequently caused me to develop a bad habit of not wearing my seat belt. I basically didn't wear it for about the next 10 years of my life until I got a ticket for not wearing it one day. I have worn it every time since getting that ticket. Not wearing my seat belt was the least dangerous thing I did in my 20's though, LOL.
 
Crash in Clover kills 1
CLOVER, S.C. - Jake Peterson, 27, of York was killed when his vehicle collided with another at the intersection of Parham Road and Highway 55 in Clover just after 11 a.m. Wednesday.

Peterson was not wearing a seat belt.

The other driver was injured and taken to Piedmont Medical Center.

The crash's cause is under investigation.
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Guy that worked where I do. His father also works there. He was 27.
 
drkelly said:
I wore my seatbelt as required starting at age 16 when I first began driving. The summer after my senior year in high school I got a job delivering pizza for Dominos. Getting in and out of the car so frequently caused me to develop a bad habit of not wearing my seat belt. I basically didn't wear it for about the next 10 years of my life until I got a ticket for not wearing it one day. I have worn it every time since getting that ticket. Not wearing my seat belt was the least dangerous thing I did in my 20's though, LOL.
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When I was getting my Psych degree from App, one year I worked in a research lab for a guy who did I/O psych of risky behavior in occupations, and various interventions to try and mitigate it. For this, he used the local pizza delivery chains as his subject/test pool... Pizza Hut, Papa Johns, Dominos. At 2 of the 3 there would be some kind of intervention employed, like a public leader board of bad behavior (negative social feedback), loss of bonuses, etc. The "behaviors" were things like, coming to a full stop before pulling into traffic, wearing a belt, or using turn signals.
And to get all this data... hungry college kids like me would be paid to sit in a car across the parking lot w/ binoculars and record those guys coming and going, and check stuff off. Basically stalking pizza drivers. And yes they knew we were there b/c they consented to participate.
What I learned from that is that most pizza deliverers just didn't give a f%ck. A lot would wave at us as they bolted out of the lot w/o even slowing down, no belt etc.
And the "bad behavior leader board"? That just became a game of who could get the most red flags. lol. IIRC the best effect was just a potential bonus that could be lost.
 
My mom is alive because she got thrown out of a 65 Galaxie. Then she had me years latter.

I have personally busted out a windshield of an S10 Blazer. Officer had some questions for the driver because of the pretty spider web. Face planting that and the busted up dash smarted!

I have also flipped a Ranger the hard way! End over end hitting a hole and related bank at 65 mph. Bad day. Seat belt kept me in.

Killed a Powerstroke going a cross a Honda and smacking 3 others doing a pinball maneuver through an intersection. Seat belt kept me under the wheel and in some control.

Killed two Superhawks at speed. No belts and leathers. I cannot recall how many dirt related incidents racing and trail riding. A few where I am certain a helmet saved my life.

I believe belts save lives. I believe in ALL accidents a higher power has the final say. My pawpaw told me numerous similar stories about World War 2, early motorcycles, and racing flat head V8' s. One day he finished one with something I never have forgot.

Something along the lines of: "Without God it's a wonder we live as long as we do. For our own foolishness would have killed us a long time ago."
 
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