XJ DIY Long Arms?

Not the best welding job Ive ever seen, but overall seems reasonable. The finishing on the bolt on kits is a little nicer, but idea/strength is similar.
 
im doing a three link on my gfs 92 xj. im modeling it after the Rock crawlers setup. so far we have everything we need and we will start to build it over xmas break.

Zack
 
Let me know if you need any of those pieces. We have all of those DIY parts in stock as well as all of the laser cut tabs.

If the vehicle is being driven on the street, be very careful with the RK style front, it puts an extreme amount of stress on the components in the system.

Andy
 
that's what I was kind of thinking. Since all the stress is mainly supported by only 2 points.

Yes, it would be mostly street driving.
 
Andy, I believe I heard you had an incident w/ the RK kit on a TJ? BUT, was that b/c there was no trackbar?

Im just wondering b/c im about to install the new RK kit w/ the high clearance arms. But im going to run RE's HD trackbar and bracket, etc.

What's so bad about the new kit on the road?
 
uncc civilengineer said:
Andy, I believe I heard you had an incident w/ the RK kit on a TJ? BUT, was that b/c there was no trackbar?
Im just wondering b/c im about to install the new RK kit w/ the high clearance arms. But im going to run RE's HD trackbar and bracket, etc.
What's so bad about the new kit on the road?
Click to expand...

Yes, I did have an issue with their old kit. However, it is the overall quality and horrible engineering that the company continues to push on their products that makes it so we will deal with their products. We have seen multiple kits that are pretty much brand new with all the Krawler Joints shot, broken pieces, bent brackets, that makes me leary of dealing with any of their products. Seen way too many issues to take on that liability.

Andy
 
X2 on RockKrawler bringing the suck. I have seen 1st hand 3 of their trackbar brackets break on the trail. This happened when we were out in Moab.

ai14.photobucket.com_albums_a349_Puma297_GSW06_GrandSlam06103.jpg
 
Elliott,

Just a question for you but how can you state that a product is crap when all you have seen break is a trackbar bracket?

The bracket is almost identical to RE's HD bracket (both 1/4")... Im assuming you saw they bracket broken on rigs that were "Three Linked". So, its probably not product quality but the fact that a three linked front suspension puts huge stresses on the trackbar and anyone's would fail...

Elliott, did anything else break on the trail?
 
uncc civilengineer said:
Elliott,
Just a question for you but how can you state that a product is crap when all you have seen break is a trackbar bracket?
The bracket is almost identical to RE's HD bracket (both 1/4")... Im assuming you saw they bracket broken on rigs that were "Three Linked". So, its probably not product quality but the fact that a three linked front suspension puts huge stresses on the trackbar and anyone's would fail...
Elliott, did anything else break on the trail?
Click to expand...

They are nowhere the same in design or quality to the RE stuff. I have seen problems with RE stuff as well but not blatant issues like the RK stuff. Yes, the 3 link does put a lot of stress on the trackbar components .......if RK was designing their stuff correctly to handle the stresses from THEIR CHOSEN FRONT SUSPENSION setup it would not be an issue. They are the ones that decided they needed to do their POS 3-link that they designed using components that (regardless of the posted numbers they supply) are not designed to hold the kind of use, abuse, and stress that our vehicles go through.

Not trying to be a dick about it but don't go attacking Elliot on this one. I know you said you were getting ready to install their setup on your Jeep, don't go after him trying to make yourself feel better about your purchase. Unfortunately people see their lower price point and good advertising and just assume it is a quality product. Sorry, this is not one of them for a daily driven/moderate trail use vehicle that needs to be over engineered to be safe on and off the road.

I have seen a ton of their stuff deform/bend/break from light to moderate use and yes, we did have one fall apart on the street with NO offroad miles. One of their joints sheared off at the tip of the thread approx 100 miles after it was put in. Yes, the jam nut and bolt were tight, it was just a garbage part.

Just my $0.02
 
OK to start with I was not attacking anyone on this point. Please re-read the post before attacking me. I asked if "you saw anything else break" I was not sarcastic and I think you're the one attacking someone.

To start with I stated that the TRACKBAR BRACKET was similar. AND YES it is... I NO WAY shape or form said that RK stuff was comparable to RE stuff. I actually ordered the RE HD trackbar and bracket as oppsed to RK's tbar and bracket. Im running RE leafs, shocks, sye, etc.

ALSO, you're exactly right, thats the reason I chose RK's lift as oppsed to TNT, yours, RE, etc. ITs that i'm a cheap person. When in reality I had the TNT kit ordered already but it was on backorder ($1050 for arms and pan) so I canceled it. But yeah Im just a cheap person. I didnt go w/ TNT b/c yeah its expensive but I didnt like the fact that you have to drop the belly pan to work on anything, etc. All setups have issues and no-one has made anything perfect yet OR there would only be one company selling stuff... It can be modified..

SO please get off my back all I wanted to know is if he saw anything else break besides a freaking bracket. No, I dont need comfort and I have no problem sending something back if im not satisfied when it arrives...

BY the way, were the issues you had with the setup that DID NOT run a front trackbar... I mean come on that's just asking for trouble running a 3-link and no trackbar.. To me the joints, arms, ect look well built/engineered... Its basically a modified heim and their parts look just as beefy as RE, clayton, TNT, etc. Am I looking at newly designed stuff?

How about this, when it gets here i'll take some pictures, measure it and compare it to others stuff...If it's crap, i'll admit its crap.. If I drive it down the highway and dont feel completely safe it will come off and be replaced..

And i'll be more than glad to bring it by your shop and have you look at it you can explain to me why it's weak and crap.

EDIT: Just out of curoisty, how do you design your parts (arms, etc.) do you run any structual analysis software or similar design programs. I just ask because i'm sure RK has to for insurance purposes.. I mean how could they get away with selling a crap product, they would be tied up in so many class action lawsuits, etc. You sated that over engineering needs to be done for our rigs to be safe both on and off the road. And I agree over engineering can be a good thing but not very cost efficient and not always necessary. Designing something with a significant and approprite factor of safety makes more sense to me than just guessing and assuming its over engineered...
 
Rather than starting a bitchfest here, why not go post in the RK bash thread on pbb. It's somewhere in the hardcore jeep section.
Seems nobody likes them.
 
Tone is hard to pick up on the internet so if you were not giving him a hard time then I apologize.

I am sure RK ran some sort of analysis on their parts. However, every single time I talked to them they throw out some super high rating when their parts do not stand up in the real world to even standard driving.

All of the issues i am talking about are on lifts that have been installed within the last 6-9 months. As far as everything I have seen it is their latest stuff, ALTHOUGH, they have gone through 4-5 design changes after customers had real life problems with their stuff failing. Apparently they don't do any or at least much real life testing on the stuff they put out.

RK also is the ONLY suspension manufacturing company that has taken on the 3 link they way they have. I am not saying that new concepts are bad, just that there is a reason that NO other suspension company on the market will touch the 3 link front on a street/trail driven rig. Without any redundancy in the suspension mounting points you open yourself up for a world of problems if something goes wrong.

Twice now we have had local people come in with RK suspensions with all of the Krawler joints shot and new ones in hand that I have been told were replaced under warranty. Only one of those failures that I know of local caused the customer to completely lose control of the vehicle. Every single person that has come in locally has complained about the ride and quality of the RK stuff.

Minus issues we have had with past employees, we have not had any problems with using proven technology in the setups we have built(greg and patrick are the only 2 issues I have seen and both were completely separate issues from design). I am not trying to redesign the wheel and market it to the masses though......

Again, I apologize if I came off harsh. I have had a bad history with RK through personal experiences and customer experiences and I hate seeing good people throwing money away on their parts.
 
Andy, thanks for the reply. Also sorry if I sounded harsh, it just struck me wrong....

IS it that unsafe? What breaks I mean its 3 full length arms attached in three places? Is that so much worse than a 4link? I mean couldnt you just throw in another full length upper and its back to a 4link system?

The mounts are welded the same way the factory ones are? How much more stress could be put on them to cause them to rip off? It just seems like its not so much a structural deal as it is an axle movement kind of deal... I would think that a strong trackbar, bracket, swaybar, and proper steering setup would provide plenty of support, etc.

EDIT: Andy, can you also pm me with what your typical prices for building a interior XJ chage is? I need something where the back seat is still functional (if its possible)...

Also, I agree with you about the quality of the majority of RK's components and I would never run their trackbar, leafs, etc. BUT, how bad can 3 control arms w/ joints really be? I mean there's not much to it and thats basically what I would build if I were had the time...except i would not use solid stock.
 
uncc civilengineer said:
Elliott,
Just a question for you but how can you state that a product is crap when all you have seen break is a trackbar bracket?
The bracket is almost identical to RE's HD bracket (both 1/4")... Im assuming you saw they bracket broken on rigs that were "Three Linked". So, its probably not product quality but the fact that a three linked front suspension puts huge stresses on the trackbar and anyone's would fail...
Elliott, did anything else break on the trail?
Click to expand...

UNCC,

I have only dealt with RK trackbars, brackets, springs, and control arms. The RE HD bracket is quite a bit different, not in design but in quality. This particular rig was running a typical radius long arm front suspension, identical to mine. Nothing else of significance broke on that trail surprisingly (Rusty Nail in Moab). The RK springs I've dealt with are great, no complaints there. I'm just making comments on products I've had 1st hand experience with.

-E
 
IMO they were both contributing factors. There is an additional 2 extra inches of leverage on RK's bracket than with the RE bracket. See below for the RE bracket... I believe RE products are significantly better in design and quality.
 

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I am building my Long arms like those except I am trying the Farm joints. I like to have first hand experience rather than having the hear say about the joints. If they don't work the way I want or rattle too quickly I will cut them off and use some Johnny joints. I have the RK Springs and T-bar and Bracket. No problems so far.
 
I wouldn't be using those farm joints. Had the threads rip off mine while driving down the road, luckily didn't cause an accident..

RE's product is normally good. I was just stating that it was definately weld failure before bracket failure.
 
uncc civilengineer said:
BUT, how bad can 3 control arms w/ joints really be? I mean there's not much to it and thats basically what I would build if I were had the time...except i would not use solid stock.
Click to expand...


you ought to see the pics of the rig Andy was driving down the interstate when it did fail...

upper mount broke (I think that was the first point of failure), and when that happens, there was nothing to keep the axle under the vehicle...

it's more of a matter of if/when it breaks, there's nothing left to help hold the axle in place...

Greg
 
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