Any HVAC guys looking for an extra job?

benmack1

benmack1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Location
USA
Just toying with the idea of replacing my heat pump myself. Not completely sure I can handle the whole job, especially the discharge of the old unit (recover and dispose of the R22) and charging the new one (R410A) and wondering if there are any people on here that have HVAC experience and might be interested in a partial job on the side? I assume most storefront HVAC companies are going to laugh at me for asking and give me a bunch of shit that i can't figure this out myself.

Not gonna do this right now (my system is working for now), but I am trying to see what options there are for when it is go time. I have two split system units that are 9 years old. I had a quote for a new one upstairs for about 7K-8500 for 13 or 14 SEER turnkey (R410A heat pump system). That's totally insane IMO. I can get the same system for <$2500 online and I would need to install myself and have it charged. You lose the warranty by doing it yourself, but I figure if I do it right, who cares. The warranties are shit anyway, labor is the killer. parts are relatively cheap and if I can learn about this by installing, I should be able to fix if/when needed anyway. I take pride in being able to DIY when i can on anything and while it's nice to save some money, the biggie for me is I hate depending on others so would really like to give this a go myself, just looking for a back-up or maybe help through the process. I've got a Robinsair vac pump that should be perfect for this and could get the gauges and oxy-acetylene brazing torches and any other tools I need for a hell of a lot less than the 4-5K difference in price. I've got a good understanding of subcooling and superheat and how they are determined and what they mean so I am feeling like I have enough understanding to be dangerous :eek:. Any guys looking for a partial side job maybe next year or thoughts from anyone whose been down this road? I'mmore than happy to pay for someone to help me through this but not interested in a company telling me what I can't do.
 
I'm curious where you are getting the heat pump online and if its the same brand?
Parts are relatively cheap with really 2 exceptions, compressors and boards...you know the two things you HAVE to go back to the OEM on.

$7k does sound high...but I suspect you are going to be disapointed in what it costs to recover and charge the two.
I'm curious about your numbers..you say you have a quote for $7k, the new unit costs $2,500 and you want to "save" 4-5k?

I'm all about DIY, but I think you expectations may be too high. IME you should be able to get someone to swap that unit out for ~$4,000.

Now...if the unit is only 9 years old, I wonder why they need to be swapped?
On all my previosu houses and my few rentals we budget replacement at 15 years.
 
Ron said:
I'm curious where you are getting the heat pump online and if its the same brand?
Parts are relatively cheap with really 2 exceptions, compressors and boards...you know the two things you HAVE to go back to the OEM on.

$7k does sound high...but I suspect you are going to be disapointed in what it costs to recover and charge the two.
I'm curious about your numbers..you say you have a quote for $7k, the new unit costs $2,500 and you want to "save" 4-5k?

I'm all about DIY, but I think you expectations may be too high. IME you should be able to get someone to swap that unit out for ~$4,000.

Now...if the unit is only 9 years old, I wonder why they need to be swapped?
On all my previosu houses and my few rentals we budget replacement at 15 years.
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Good points. The 4-5K 'difference' is the turnkey quote vs. the cost of the equipment from online vendors. A 13seer replacement being 7K and 14seer being 8400 turnkey. There are two online places I've done a mock up with which are alpinehomeair.com and ingramswaterandair.com. The $2500 is ballpark for the 13 and about $3500 for the 14SEER. I'd need the charge to be done assuming I didn't try that myself but that's where my basis numbers come from. Have no clue on the R22 recovery part, so I can't comment on that cost but if my numbers are anywhere close to correct, I'd have alot of room to work with.
Perhaps my expectations are high but that's sort of the point of the thread I guess. I appreciate your comments for sure. I'm going to have the refrigerant coil repaired now (which is what kicked off my whole questioning of is it time to replace, I have a leak in the air handler refrigerant coil) so I hope I can stretch awhile further but at some point tossing money at the R22 system is going to not make sense any longer. Just replacing that coil is about $1300, much of which is the freon costs. The coil is actually still under warranty but no labor or freon is covered. The trick is to decide when to upgrade.

I also have no idea about buying R410A. I see it for sale all over the internet, so not sure how the sale of that works. I assume it requires an EPA permit but haven't done much homework on that. The actual charging seems straight forward with adding the lbs according to spec and then adjusting with superheat and subcooling measures but hell never done any of it. I've actually had a good time just reading about it, never really paid much attention to the HVAC system before but as I said i hate when I have to rely on others simply because I don't understand something so I dig in. Not sure what I'll do, but trying to run through all the ideas in my head anyway.
 
Brian,
I support your initatives. There are some really good HVAC mechanics and there are some that are the reciprocal. I too would rather take a woodshed wooping than call an HVAC repair man. Everything they quote is rounded off to the nearest hundred dollars it seems. Many seem to enjoy that you are at their mercy. You can thank the Legislature for writing the legislation that requires an aspiring HVAC licensed technician to crawl on their belly for 2000 hours (last I checked) to qualify for licensing no matter your background. So that means that parts houses won't sell you parts nor the gas even if you are an engineer who designs HVAC air handlers and condenser units. Yes, I have a bone to pick especially with two companies here in So Pines. #1 was called because of excessive consenser noise and questionable performance. Mr. Cowboy rode up in his new fancy truck, listened to the unit running as said it would be OK. No gages, no ammeter, no refrigerant, no evaporator coil output examination...no nothing and had the balls to send me a bill. #2 came by later on and did measure evaporator output and said it needed a pound of gas. We split a few minutes and then I checked on him at the condenser unit and he had his bottle of gas and gages but no scales. Said he was done and system shoud be fine now. So HTF did you put a pound in the system? Answere was I know I did because the gages told me so.

Be sure to buy a system with a TXV. Oversize the evaporator coil by 1/2 ton. Get a three speed evaporator fan. By your stuff across the internet for best pricing. Find a HVAC friend and save a ton of money for yourself. Amazon sells 134a, r410 and split systems.

FLAME ON!
 
I should add a bit of detail that has impacted my thinking on this too. Last winter I was under the house doing a bit of poking around. I have OCD I think and have to get into my crawl space every couple weeks to check on things. Anyway, while under there, I noticed water dripping out of my furnace. (we have a gas high efficiency furnace in a horizontal set up under the house). What these high efficiency furnaces do is generate a ton of water from the near complete combustion of the propane and that vapor condenses in then end of the heat exchanger and into the exhaust pipe that vents to the outside and runs back down in the the exhaust fan housing that drains out into the normal drain line. That part is all normal. But I had the damn water dripping from the encasement of the furnace - NOT NORMAL. I had done my googling and it's clear, cracked heat exchanger, swappable part. So I call a guy (I'm intimidate at that point by the 'furnace'). He comes (I wasn't there so my bad on that) and my 78 year old father meets with him and the guy says oh that's normal, nothing to worry about...and charges me $100 for the visit. Dad paid him of course :mad: since I had left a check with him. So I am convinced this isn't normal so I call guy #2. He comes (I am sure to be there this time around), and he says your heat exchanger is cracked and your fuct. He says this is a huge ordeal, probably have to pull the whole furnace out and do the repair in the yard if it's even repairable and he has no interest in doing this work. What the hell, this makes no sense, I have a spacious crawl space, vapor barrier lined and all, not a bad place to work relatively speaking for an HVAC job. I call guy #3 now wondering what the hell am I going to do, maybe the guy #2 is right it's a total disaster. Guy #3 is finally able to diagnose and can fix it. So he gets a warranty part from Amana/Goodman and drops in the heat exchanger in a couple hrs and I pay him $500 for the labor and we're whole again, or so I thought. Then being my OCD self, I am watching this MF like a hawk now, so the next day I am down there checking out the work and gues what, more water draining out. So the guy says give it a day, maybe it's left over. So another day, no difference. I tell him, this ain't right and of course he's perplexed too. So after some wrangling, we order another heat exchanger. He looks at the new one when it comes and the backside is missing a gasket. It was insane that this was made in this manner, it was the side you should not have to open up. So he has some high temp RTV like stuff and seals it up and I am finally dry again.

In the end, it was actually a very trivial job. Remove the gas line, pull the burners (sheet metal screws), remove more sheet metal screws and swap the guts and reverse the disassembly to reassemble. What a circus. Then I am down there again this summer (OCD is a bitch by the way :D) and I smell gas near the furnace :mad::mad::mad: . Not much, but gas. So I call the gas guy thinking the HVAC guy managed to not get something sealed up so he's done touching gas lines under my house. Gas guy comes, can't find any leak (put on a whole house meter and bubble tests, electronic meter tests etc). I say, my nose says there is a fucking leak. He disagrees says nothing he can do and charges me $100 (seems to be everyone's favorite number). Damn it all!!! Meanwhile, I still smell gas. So I think I am nuts as does my whole family and just figure the house is gonna blow up one of these days but what else can I do. So fortunately (or unfortunately not sure) I have my current HVAC problem and being happy with his work in general I call back guy #3 for the A/C and while he's here I tell him hey, I think you didn't get something right as I can smell gas. He does some bubble testing and SURE ENOUGH - BUBBLES!!!. He disconnects everything and puts some pipe dope or some kind on and cinches the pipes back down and finally I cannot smell gas anymore. What a morass.

Bottomline is every damn thing I seem to have to depend on someone else to do ends up being a major CF. I hate calling them back when they don't do it right or completely, I just hate that shit. I don't know it must just be me that gets into this shit. I try to hire good people, not fly by night guys. I am not asking for anything other than the correct repair. Certainly I am not going to settle for not being correct and will call them out but I'm not unreasonable I don't think. What I want is either the knowledge to deal with this myself (so I need to learn) or I want someone that I can trust to do good sound work. Happy to pay them but not happy to pay asshat's to do half-assed work that puts my family is danger. OK, rant off!!!:D
 
when the time comes to change it out call me, installs and service is how i make my living and would be willing to help you out. just pm me for my number if you would like the help
 
boatedwagon said:
when the time comes to change it out call me, installs and service is how i make my living and would be willing to help you out. just pm me for my number if you would like the help
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OK, exactly what I wanted. I've jotted down your screen name and contact you when the time comes and we can discuss. Thx!
 
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