Steering Problems. Opinions needed. Pics for Reference. Ford Kingpin 60.

buddyantunez1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Location
Raleigh, NC
95' 5.2L ZJ:

(Front End)
Ford Kingpin 60 front
High steer
Heim/DOM steering/track bar
SAW 14" coilovers
5.13 gears and WELDED diff
Trail Gear hydro-assist steering(new tapped gearbox and OEM pump)


Ok. I've made progress and don't think it's a hydro problem at all. Yes, it turns flawlessly both ways in 2wd with the hubs unlocked.

With the hubs locked, even out of 4wd, it doesn't want to turn left more than about half way. It will turn right without issue. So I've narrowed it down to the left side of the axle. I did hear a creek/pop when trying to turn left, then everything bound up. It's hard to tell what it was since I was turning the steering wheel in the truck.

When I unlocked the hubs and started checking the axleshafts, I noticed the driverside u-joint has some play in it, where as the passenger is tight without play. The axle shafts have a little wiggle, which feels normal. All the heim joints and jam nuts on the steering is tight. Anything else to visually check before tearing down the axle? Any ideas on what else to look for once I pull the diff cover? Or maybe something in the hub?

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Mine works great but I have the 1650 pump and cooler and big resivors mounted higher then the pump everything you said sounds like things that need to be fixed and are all good ideas
 
Thanks for the response. Question about the resivor. Did you delete the factory one or just run it in line, with the aftermarket one at the highest position? I'm all set on how to run the cooler.
 
Go full hydro.
Done deal.
 
I still like to be able to run down the street if needed. Not going ditch this setup just yet. Lets say I did though, what all would I need to convert? Orbital valve, ram, tie rod(s), lines, pump.
 
As long as fluid is flowing through everything, it should steer amazingly. It's possible the pump is bad... Also, if it isn't bled good it won't work very well. I have a very similar setup on my K30 and it works great and I also have hydroboost brakes. It was a royal bitch to bleed it out, but it was worth it.
 
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I din't think it's a pump or bleeding problem, as revving doesnt help and there arent any bubbles/foam in the reservoir. I'm going to tinker with it this morning and I'll report back in a little while with some more pics.
 
If it turns fine with the hubs unlocked and in 2wd then I would blame it on the spool and the extra scrub radius created by the wheel offset. The factory pumps on zj's kinda suck but should be able to do what you want and yes you need a cooler to make it live.
If you can get your hands on another zj auxiliary trans cooler its a good fit on the driver side behind the grill mounted like the one across from it. Also any kinks in the hose will starve the pump and burn it .

Buckeye Performance Inc.
828-779-2242
 
If there isn't any signs of the fluid being pethy then cavitations wouldn't be a culprit. What size lines come with the kit? I'll assume 1/4" NPT?

Now here's a real kicker question.... Are you sure the lines aren't reversed?
 
Ok. I've made progress and don't think it's a hydro problem at all. Yes, it turns flawlessly both ways in 2wd with the hubs unlocked.

With the hubs locked, even out of 4wd, it doesn't want to turn left more than about half way. It will turn right without issue. So I've narrowed it down to the left side of the axle. I did hear a creek/pop when trying to turn left, then everything bound up. It's hard to tell what it was since I was turning the steering wheel in the truck.

When I unlocked the hubs and started checking the axleshafts, I noticed the driverside u-joint has some play in it, where as the passenger is tight without play. The axle shafts have a little wiggle, which feels normal. All the heim joints and jam nuts on the steering is tight. Anything else to visually check before tearing down the axle? Any ideas on what else to look for once I pull the diff cover? Or maybe something in the hub?

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Are your front axle shaft u joints oriented the same? I've heard a lot of guy with welded fronts saying this made a huge difference in their steering.

Duane
 
That would make sense seeing they will both rotate and turn together. They're close to the same, but maybe a spline or two off.

But it doesn't explain why it will turn right without issue when in 4wd.
 
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my reservoir is totally separate and big and mounted high it makes a difference when in 4wd but to me sounds like your problem is somewhere in the axle not the steering im not a fan of welded front diffs at all but my buddys all run them fine
 
Updated the OP. Might stop in to ECGS tomorrow and see what the pro's think or let them shake it down. Open to any other ideas as well!
 
buddyantunez1 said:
But it doesn't explain why it will turn right without issue when in 4wd.
Click to expand...

Sure it does. Look at your ram. You've got more power turning right than turning left, just by virtue of the ram geometry. Normally, it wouldn't make a difference, but once there is a problem, it means that it's going to be harder to turn left than to turn right.

And because you have a spool, having the tcase locked or not doesn't make a functional difference. That only matters if the side gears in the diff can spin at different speeds.

Have you pulled the sloppy shaft to see if there's a problem on that side? If you have play in the u joint, then the joint is bad or the ears are stretched. Have you even picked the tires up off the ground to see how freely the axles spin? You might even have a broken shaft that binds up when you turn the tires. Have you tried cycling the steering lock to lock with only one hub locked? Be sure to alternate sides.

Checking for an axle problem is quick and easy. If you don't find anything there, my money is on a bad pump or maybe a bad seal in the ram.
 
Ah, never looked at it from that aspect. I'm still pretty new to hydro, so excuse my newb lack of knowledge. I haven't pulled anying apart yet, waiting on my days off to start.

I did try just 1 hub locked, and it turned freely with either the driver OR passenger hub locked. The problem only arose when I leave both hubs locked in. Also tried turning when moving and sitting still to see if it made a difference, and it was the same.

Yes, I jacked the front end up and the wheels spun freely, but didnt check if they did with the hubs locked. This is what's leading me to think it's an issue inside the axle and not so much a hub/spindle/knuckle issue. Ran out of time before I had to get ready for work...

I really think it's a spline issue or even the outer u-joint binding.
 
XJsavage said:
Now here's a real kicker question.... Are you sure the lines aren't reversed?
Click to expand...

This... you need to unhook one end of the cylinder and see if it changes. Then look to see if the cylinder is moving the right way. I'll bet you my lunch money that the hoses are backwards. Even with a crappy pump that ram has enough power it should push right through almost anything that could be broken in the axle. Binding is very unlikely to cause this your problem.

In line with what @shawn said the reason it'll turn right fine is because that single ended ram has much more power pushing the piston out(right) than it has using half the fluid pulling it back in(left). The pressure passing out of the steering box to the cylinder can overpower the box right but not left.

While you're at it raise the axle end and lower the frame end of that front track bar. It's way out of plane with the drag link, it has to drive terrible. Looks there are enough holes in the brackets to fix it.
 
Good eye! Definitely need to raise the axle end and lower the frame end of that panhard bar! It would bump steer like a mo fo without hydro assist...it may still a little, but that will definitely mask it.

I'd check the lines, but from my experiences it won't turn if they're backwards. I had the lines wrong on my K30 when I first did the hydro assist and it just fought itself in both directions and sort of danced side to side, but wouldn't really go anywhere. That was with the front end off the ground too and I can't imagine it being any better with it on the ground. I'm using a 2x8 Grizzly hydraulic ram from Agri Supply.

Still wouldn't hurt to make sure though! I certainly agree with @MarsFab too. If I were to put the front tires of my truck against a brick wall and turn left or right, it would push the truck away from it. I've even purposely tried to get in situations where you'd think it wouldn't steer well, but it always does. I've been very pleased with how much stronger my steering has gotten since the addition of the hydro assist.
 
Only reason I brought it up was because I've done it myself lol. The two components will fight each other until the weaker one gives in. Usually the mechanics inside the gearbox will prevail.
 
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