Tow rig recommendations

[YJKrawlin]

Trying to plan out our future krawler hauler plans as things move along, trying to have something in mind to keep an eye out for as we are saving in the meantime. Originally we were considering a bus conversion, but have decided against that as it will sit except for the few times a year we are travelling. Use outside of wheeling is a priority to avoid issues due to sitting. Currently we tow with our 2011 suburban 1500, but we are planning to build a krawler hauler trailer, 26-30' trailer, camper on the front, bronco loaded in the rear. Expecting to be somewhere between the 10k-13k lbs range based on estimations of trailer/camper/bronco weights. (Bronco:4500 lbs, Camper:1500-2500 lbs, Trailer: 4000-5000lbs) Current top contenders are getting a 2007+ 2500 suburban for the time being (seeing them for around $8k-14k with around 200-250k miles) and having a duramax conversion done to it at a later date by one of the reputable converters (Looking at Duramax Specialties) ($50k-65k for the conversion, which hurts to type, but the work does appear to be quality and this would be a few years of saving to do), I worry this will keep us on the lower end of the trailer weight range though, not seeing many towing this much with their suburbans even converted, so I know it may be pushing it. A suburban would stay our secondary daily driver though, so no worries of it sitting long periods of time, but will have plenty of miles put on it. Other option would be a Dually Crew Cab, either 350/3500 or 450/4500 (I've heard they have better turning radius usually). More purpose used, but unsure of what to look at, it would open up the option of gooseneck/fifth wheel trailers though vs bumper pull. Always been told the 7.3 was the end all be all of towing engines, but with most of these at or above 300k miles, unsure if it is wise to invest in one (seeing prices in the $8k-$12k range at that mileage). (Also not a huge fan of the interiors on the older super duties.) Would like to keep heated seats, don't mind the interior on our 2011 suburban besides the cracked dash cracking more. Just not sure what I should keep an eye out for. Probably feels like more of a ramble than a post but just trying to narrow down my thoughts with some outside input. Any suggestions? Vehicles to consider? Vehicles to run away from? For the sake of price range, ideally $20k or less, but could probably swing $70k or down at some point, all theoretical for figure out a savings goal either way.

 

[drkelly]

I know nothing, but you can buy a lot of replacement engines for the cost of that diesel conversion. What about a 8.1 powered Burb or truck?

 

[OnlyOneDR]

What about a last-of-the-line Excursions? 2005 w/6.0 could be configured for 11k. Or if you want to go "truck" with some space a ten-year old4th Gen Ram 3500 Mega Cab short bed minimum is getting you between 11-13k with the smaller 5.7 gasser (3.73 and 4.10), the 6.4 gasser gets 13-15k, and the diesel gets 15-16k depending on output and axle ratio (I used a 2016 as an example). The Mega Cab can also be had with dual rear wheels and that significantly increases the capacity.

The main thing to consider with any "upgrades" to any tow vehicle is that the original GCWR sticker still applies. Increase power? Change axle ratio deeper? Still officially only tows what the sticker says. Change the engine, get heavier axles or springs? Still only officially tows what the sticker says. Get in a wreck or get pulled over and you will not be in a position to win that argument. A few friends of mine have asked if I might regear my ram to 4.10 to tow more and I just say "no" because legally it does not get me anything.

 

[paradisePWoffrd]

I might consider looking into an enclosed that is built out or you could build out. Would allow you to have a hauler, but also potentially take camping or something else too. The open deck option is similar, but not sure how much you will use it other than offroading trips.

 

[jeepinmatt]

Honestly it's hard to figure out what price range you are looking for here. I see a lot of numbers around $10k, then I see you talking about a $50-65k conversion. Obviously these are two very different budgets. If you can save up $50-65k in a couple years, I think you'd be much better served to go ahead and save up $30-40k and find something newer with lower miles. Any of these 15-20 year old vehicles will have 15-20 year old rubber and plastic parts everywhere that are going to start failing at a regular rate. Unless you have an affinity for a very particular vehicle it's hard to justify the cost and effort of maintaining an older vehicle as a regular driver. I think FD3S Mazda RX7's are awesome, but owning one would be a labor of love not logic, so I need to have two RX7's worth of cash saved up before buying one, because everything on it is 30 years old and needs to be replaced.

 

[justjeepin86]

I'd lose the thought of a 7.3 right away. I really like the idea of having a gasser these days, but if I was towing that much, I'd buy a diesel. I don't have much other input on the newer trucks.

The conversion is a cool idea, but damn they are expensive.

 

[benXJ]

2wd or 4wd?

 

[YJKrawlin]

Honestly it's hard to figure out what price range you are looking for here. I see a lot of numbers around $10k, then I see you talking about a $50-65k conversion. Obviously these are two very different budgets. If you can save up $50-65k in a couple years, I think you'd be much better served to go ahead and save up $30-40k and find something newer with lower miles. Any of these 15-20 year old vehicles will have 15-20 year old rubber and plastic parts everywhere that are going to start failing at a regular rate. Unless you have an affinity for a very particular vehicle it's hard to justify the cost and effort of maintaining an older vehicle as a regular driver. I think FD3S Mazda RX7's are awesome, but owning one would be a labor of love not logic, so I need to have two RX7's worth of cash saved up before buying one, because everything on it is 30 years old and needs to be replaced.

Absolutely agree! Trying to figure out the budget is kinda of the reason for asking. Have multiple ideas floating around in different price ranges keeps the goal at a questionable point. Hoping to narrow it down some. I do love the styling of our suburban and use (4 dogs and a baby make traveling a chore without it) and the idea of keeping it or something similar is an attractive idea. We have the ability to save the money “relatively” quickly for the amount, but need the goal for the motivation of that makes sense. My “affinity” for working on stuff is older crap, but I can be honest with myself enough that an 80s truck will probably not be reliable or capable for what I’m doing without extensive work that takes it out of the realm of what we are trying to do. The “duraburb” builds, while costing newer truck prices do get a very through going through and I believe do get them to a similar “use” level as some of the newer trucks if not better (Log into Facebook). I’ve debated the newer trucker lane, but have heard so many horror stories about anything newer and diesel that I’m not sure it’s what o want to contend with, same with ecoboost trucks, modern transmissions, etc, etc. but looking for real world experience from you guys!

 

[YJKrawlin]

I'd lose the thought of a 7.3 right away. I really like the idea of having a gasser these days, but if I was towing that much, I'd buy a diesel. I don't have much other input on the newer trucks.

The conversion is a cool idea, but damn they are expensive.

Absolutely they are expensive, but it does see like the work is quality where I’m looking, may not be up to a “new” vehicle standard, but definitely gets rid of most of the “used “ vehicle fears.

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[YJKrawlin]

2wd or 4wd?

Honestly either. I’ve always kept to 2wd for the extra towing capacity for peace of mind, but know 4wd has its place especially going out beyond Nc for wheeling.

 

[YJKrawlin]

I know nothing, but you can buy a lot of replacement engines for the cost of that diesel conversion. What about a 8.1 powered Burb or truck?

This will sound bad, but I can’t stand the styling of the gmt800 trucks haha. But it is something I’ve looked at as an option. I see most people who upgrade to the 6.0/6l80 say the only thing they didn’t miss about the 8.1 was the mpg. Otherwise it was better towing truck.

 

[YJKrawlin]

I might consider looking into an enclosed that is built out or you could build out. Would allow you to have a hauler, but also potentially take camping or something else too. The open deck option is similar, but not sure how much you will use it other than offroading trips.

I have been trying to keep an eye on some of the “purpose built” krawler haulers for more of a “finished” look, so it’s on the radar, the goal would obviously be to go more than 1-2 times a year with this setup because we wouldn’t be paying for Airbnb everywhere we go like we are now. I may be young but I’ve outgrown waking up on the ground because my air mattress deflated in the middle of the night haha. I’ve see 1 or 2 sundowner trailer that are bumper Pull that are no longer sold though. This is my main reason for considering the gooseneck as well, since that’s primarily how these open deck crawler haulers are sold. I’ll also put here some pictures of the ideas for mounting a camper on the trailer. The nice part is, if we do go somewhere traveling we could throw the wife’s car on the back for zipping around if it isn’t a crawling trip with the crawler haulers.

 

[YJKrawlin]

What about a last-of-the-line Excursions? 2005 w/6.0 could be configured for 11k. Or if you want to go "truck" with some space a ten-year old4th Gen Ram 3500 Mega Cab short bed minimum is getting you between 11-13k with the smaller 5.7 gasser (3.73 and 4.10), the 6.4 gasser gets 13-15k, and the diesel gets 15-16k depending on output and axle ratio (I used a 2016 as an example). The Mega Cab can also be had with dual rear wheels and that significantly increases the capacity.

The main thing to consider with any "upgrades" to any tow vehicle is that the original GCWR sticker still applies. Increase power? Change axle ratio deeper? Still officially only tows what the sticker says. Change the engine, get heavier axles or springs? Still only officially tows what the sticker says. Get in a wreck or get pulled over and you will not be in a position to win that argument. A few friends of mine have asked if I might regear my ram to 4.10 to tow more and I just say "no" because legally it does not get me anything.

Yes that’s my only fear with anything too custom (converting an older truck to a modern diesel, etc.) the suburban company does get new weight plates for them, but nothing crazy, I think it’s to help offset the new weight of the engine, thinking 8k-10k or something for the payload of the truck. I’ve considered the excursions but worried about the 6.0 horror stories for sure and not a huge fan of the super duty interiors. Unless I’m wrong and they have a different interior. Want something we will be happy looking at for hours on trips and potentially riding around throughout the year. Definitely appreciate the suggestion though and I’ve thought about them for sure! I even think there’s a company unfitting some modern stuff into excursions but I haven’t look explicitly into it yet.

 

[jeepinmatt]

We have the ability to save the money “relatively” quickly for the amount, but need the goal for the motivation of that makes sense.

I completely understand this, as that is how my mind works haha. I can't save for anything in general, but if there's something in particular I want, I'm really good at it!

Given your needs, I'd shift the price range to about $35k and be looking at a 2015+ Superduty with a 6.7. They are great, reliable trucks that are starting to get into a reasonable price range, and they have a ton of cab space. Or a Megacab Ram, but decade old Chrysler and reliable don't really live in the same sentence. You might be able to find a newer Megacab cummins in the upper $30's depending on your expectation of trim levels and tolerance of mileage.

 

[paradisePWoffrd]

I have been trying to keep an eye on some of the “purpose built” krawler haulers for more of a “finished” look, so it’s on the radar, the goal would obviously be to go more than 1-2 times a year with this setup because we wouldn’t be paying for Airbnb everywhere we go like we are now. I may be young but I’ve outgrown waking up on the ground because my air mattress deflated in the middle of the night haha. I’ve see 1 or 2 sundowner trailer that are bumper Pull that are no longer sold though. This is my main reason for considering the gooseneck as well, since that’s primarily how these open deck crawler haulers are sold. I’ll also put here some pictures of the ideas for mounting a camper on the trailer. The nice part is, if we do go somewhere traveling we could throw the wife’s car on the back for zipping around if it isn’t a crawling trip with the crawler haulers.

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I would research on RV sites and different campgrounds that you might think about staying at. Some of them are particular about what type of RV is allowed in. Many do not allow Bus conversions. I dont know about open deck units, but I suspect some wouldnt allow them either.

 

[YJKrawlin]

I completely understand this, as that is how my mind works haha. I can't save for anything in general, but if there's something in particular I want, I'm really good at it!

Given your needs, I'd shift the price range to about $35k and be looking at a 2015+ Superduty with a 6.7. They are great, reliable trucks that are starting to get into a reasonable price range, and they have a ton of cab space. Or a Megacab Ram, but decade old Chrysler and reliable don't really live in the same sentence. You might be able to find a newer Megacab cummins in the upper $30's depending on your expectation of trim levels and tolerance of mileage.

I’ve been peeking at 6.7 f-450s ( price isn’t much different than the 350s and better turning radius from what I’ve read). Price definitely doesn’t seem bad for what you can get off the 6.7 is a reliable configuration?

 

[CLRracer]

I completely understand this, as that is how my mind works haha. I can't save for anything in general, but if there's something in particular I want, I'm really good at it!

Given your needs, I'd shift the price range to about $35k and be looking at a 2015+ Superduty with a 6.7. They are great, reliable trucks that are starting to get into a reasonable price range, and they have a ton of cab space. Or a Megacab Ram, but decade old Chrysler and reliable don't really live in the same sentence. You might be able to find a newer Megacab cummins in the upper $30's depending on your expectation of trim levels and tolerance of mileage.

MegaCab owner and fanboy checking in, and this is what I would do lol. I briefly had a 6.7 super duty and wouldn't hesitate to own another. I think the 14-18 Ram interior is better than the Ford, but that's personal preference. If you go Cummins then 15 to 18 are generally considered the "best" of the 6.7 trucks, just go ahead and put aside about 8k for a new transmission if it hasn't been rebuilt yet lol

Duane

 

[jeepinmatt]

MegaCab owner and fanboy checking in, and this is what I would do lol. I briefly had a 6.7 super duty and wouldn't hesitate to own another. I think the 14-18 Ram interior is better than the Ford, but that's personal preference. If you go Cummins then 15 to 18 are generally considered the "best" of the 6.7 trucks, just go ahead and put aside about 8k for a new transmission if it hasn't been rebuilt yet lol

Duane

And the same amount for an engine if its tuned and has over 100k miles...speaking from experience

 

[jeepinmatt]

I’ve been peeking at 6.7 f-450s ( price isn’t much different than the 350s and better turning radius from what I’ve read). Price definitely doesn’t seem bad for what you can get off the 6.7 is a reliable configuration?

The 6.7 is a very solid platform, basically no engine and tranny issues, and sporadic issues with the CP4 fuel pump that are a bit overblown on the internet.

F450's are all wide track with the ridiculously good turning radius. 11-16 F350's had a "Fatboy" a.k.a. Widetrack edition with the super wide front fender flares and they have the same wide track and excellent steering as the F450's. It was discontinued with the 2017+ trucks.
Notice the difference in the front flares on these:

Here's a really nice 2016 F450 I saw when I was looking at trucks a couple weeks ago:

https://www.carolinaautodirect.com/vehicle-details/used-2016-ford-f-450sd-king-ranch-4x4-/-drw-/-truck-topper-/-6-7l-v8-diesel-carolina-auto-direct-id-63171966

But honestly you can get a newer one with similar miles for that price. I just really like that green, especially with the dark brown interior.

 

[CLRracer]

And the same amount for an engine if its tuned and has over 100k miles...speaking from experience haha

Hush your mouth lol. Mine is closing in on 200k

Seriously, you're not wrong, but I haven't seen a lot of reports of blown engines in those years, at least in the 2500 and 3500s. And a good bit of the ones I have seen were from the grid heater bolt failure. I know the 4500 and 5500s aren't exactly the same but I dont keep up with them enough.

Duane

 

[Clubbs]

Hush your mouth lol. Mine is closing in on 200k

Seriously, you're not wrong, but I haven't seen a lot of reports of blown engines in those years, at least in the 2500 and 3500s. And a good bit of the ones I have seen were from the grid heater bolt failure. I know the 4500 and 5500s aren't exactly the same but I dont keep up with them enough.

Duane

Im at 298k on my 2018 ram. Randy's trans at 220k. Deleted and tuned the same time. No issues with the engine. Heck I'm still on the original u joints, rear brake pads, all steering parts, and one of the front hubs is original too.

Running a dirty diesel tune on setting 4 for the last 78k miles. Tow on setting 1 or 2. Considering head studs and compounds...

I did disable the grid heater and ordered the banks intake thing last week.

Fwiw, the delete was required because the factory def nozzle was leaking and filling up the exhaust. But now that it's deleted my rotella oil is still clearish after 7k mile oil changes - in fact it's getting clearer.

 

[skyhighZJ]

If it were me and had some money I’d look 2012 3500 ram MegaCab out of Texas with low miles. They are out there and dealerships out there have them available. Fly in, drive home. The MegaCab has SO much room for activities. Pre ‘13 is non emissions and even if it has its stock dress on under the hood, deleting and tuning is SUPER easy. Also, depending on trim package you can find 6 spd manual if that suits your fancy. Just a thought although the link you provided for those 2500 burns outta that place honestly aren’t that out of touch for the amount of work it looks like they put into them??

 

[Noel]

I’d imagine there are some regular toyhauler campers that would fit a bronco. But I’d definitely look into a mega cab Cummins. Plenty of space for the baby and dogs back there. Luggage can all fit into whatever trailer you’re hauling. I’d find a low mileage 6.0 excursion and have it bulletproof before dropping that kind of coin to swap a duramax.

 

[skyhighZJ]

See also: gooseneck trailer, camper, hauler, etc. will ride better than any bumper pull ever will. I’ll stand on this mole hill. I.E. buy a pickup based platform.