Tellico Closed Forever!

ohv areas

I have noticed a large increase in the number of trucks/jeeps that have been using the Brown Mt ohv area, alot have been people that had never been there before until tellico was closed,bad thing is when they sale a trail pass or season pass that don't ask what your riding or driving, it would be a great place to expand..my 1cent
 
Good point! Once again, the FS uses incorrect information to support their position!

Make that:

http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/press/t...ws_release.pdf

"Other national forest OHV trail systems in North Carolina include:
Wayehutta, Nantahala NF, 21 miles (21 miles ATV and motorcycle),
Brown Mountain, Pisgah NF, 34 miles (6 miles 4WD, 27 miles ATV, 34 miles motorcycle)
Badin Lake, Uwharrie NF, 16 miles (16 miles 4WD, ATV and motorcycle)"

With the closure of 39 miles of OHV trails in Tellico that were previously open to 4wd vehicles, we now have 22 miles of 4wd trail available in NC. We now have 64% less 4wd trails in NC to recreate on than we had before!
 
unfortunately, this isn't the case. most forest employees are tree huggers. it's a fact. I graduated in Wildlife and Fisheries mgmt and all they teach you is about protection of the forest for the future. I also worked and spoke with many of the individuals at the Ranger Station and none that I met were very fond of the trails. Bill Champion (Operations aka trail maintenance) and I sat and talked for a while one day and he gave me the distinct impression he did not think Tellico was worth keeping around.
This may not be the case in Uwharrie but I know for fact these jack asses at Tellico were huggers and I'm sure they're glad it's gone. They're all lazy, overpaid douchebags.


We will ahve to agree to disagree as I have a degree in Forest resource Management and one in Aquaculture, Fisheries and Wildlife Biology. I can not think of a single treee hugger in the entire forestry program at the number one forestry school on the east coast. Hunters and fishers, sure but they hate the greeniees and tree huggers as much as we do.

Foresters want to cut trees, log and burn to grow new trees.

i bet no one has asked what the impact to logging operations will be with these trails "permanently closed" by definition those were logging access roads.

Next time it comes to logging we need to protest the movement of all equipment through the forest.
 
Went twice. Had I known then that it was going to be closed, would have spent much more time. I feel sorry for all those that never went, you missed an awsome place.This is a pic from Crawfords.
 

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Here's a dead horse but still my best opinionated answer: Put your time, money, and most of all passion into private owned facility.
 
Here's a dead horse but still my best opinionated answer: Put your time, money, and most of all passion into private owned facility.
That is not the answer either. WE have already seen private places closed for some of the same reasons and for not the same reasons.
 
That is not the answer either. WE have already seen private places closed for some of the same reasons and for not the same reasons.


wrong that is the ONLY answer.
Want to wheel better find and support some local land.
 
wrong that is the ONLY answer.
Want to wheel better find and support some local land.
I'm sure in the end that is going to be the only answer. But my point was that they will get harassed too. just becasue you ahve a deed to a piece of property does not mean the EPA or some other agency cannot enforce some rules on you.
 
wrong that is the ONLY answer.
Want to wheel better find and support some local land.

How does that make a difference? The gov't will still come in and shut it down, no matter whether you 'support' it or not. In fact, your patronage of such a place could get it shut down sooner than it would otherwise.
 
I can not think of a single treee hugger in the entire forestry program at the number one forestry school on the east coast.

[hijack]

I didn't know you went to VT??

[/hijack]
 
[hijack]
I didn't know you went to VT??
[/hijack]


Can't say where they rank today, but 10-12 years ago it was 3rd (behind Clemson and Auburn)

besides anyone getting a forestry degree needs to be shook...4 year degree and 18k/annual starting salary...no thanks
 
How does that make a difference? The gov't will still come in and shut it down, no matter whether you 'support' it or not. In fact, your patronage of such a place could get it shut down sooner than it would otherwise.
As a legitimate buisness? Or even no buisness rather a private club with membership dues and privilages? Either are viable options and the hunting industry thrives on both. Check out some of the large ranches out west for this purpose. As for Tellico, I did get to enjoy it in a very limited fashion. It was however very mismanaged. Sad, but some of our more passionate advocates led to its demise. A middle ground was needed. A few only saw the hardcore wheeling potential of the area and never once considered a return to a more subdued use of the land. Its manner of use in its last yrs were never planned for or intended. On top of that nobody was smart enough to realize this evolvement. Better managementt was needed to keep up with the growing and evolving public demands. Management, permits and regulated use is the answer to public long term use. A do enjoy hardcore wheeling even if I don't get to participate very often. But such challenges will be regulated to private closed coarse arenas and property (like it or not) at some point in time. This will only change with a very fundamental shift in government and thats a whole other topic.
 
URE will be next if were not careful!

Yep, I was thinking about Uwharrie as I read WARRIOR WELDING's post:

Sad, but some of our more passionate advocates led to its demise. A middle ground was needed. A few only saw the hardcore wheeling potential of the area and never once considered a return to a more subdued use of the land. Its manner of use in its last yrs were never planned for or intended. On top of that nobody was smart enough to realize this evolvement

I got my first Jeep in 1986 and have been going to Uwharrie for many years. It seems that in about the last five years, the trails of Uwharrie have really changed drastically. I attribute it to bigger rigs, bigger tires, more horsepower, more hotrodding instead of finesse. Rigs and usage have changed so much in the last ten years, and effects of that are seen in the trails system. Plus, I'm sure the number of people using UNF has increased greatly, multiplying the impact.

The way Uwharrie is being treated, I think it's a matter of time there, too.
 
I myself, have been to 13 consecutive Great Smokey Mountain Trail Ride ( GSMTR ) at Tellico. Many people that I now call friends I met at Tellico NF. Many of them are members on this Forum! We went for 8 days every year and seen a lot of changes on the trails and in camp. Trails change because of erosion mainly, and tires and use. I have wittnessed people pouring MOTOR OIL on slickrock! And when we pulled up to the bottom, they hollered down "good luck with that" and threw the empty oil bottles on the ground! I've seen a lot of stuff in my trips to trail rides. Lately in the last several years it has changed from a finesse and vehicle control to bonzii and throttle and momentum and more throttle. Don't take offense to this, I'm just saying it has changed a lot in my time of riding the trails. I'm sure some of you have seen things that made you mad or shake your head in disbeleif. Telico was just too famous and ridden to death, It's own death. As I said, we went for 8 days every year, on monday,tuesday,wensday we could ride all day and never see anybody else. In the last few years it was busy every day. The trails and nature was choked and finally died. I will miss it more than you will ever know. What we have is a wakeup call for the trails we haven't lost yet. Maybe Tellico is the first trail that you have lost! In my time I've lost several trails that are gone forever! And I still miss every one of them! As I said before, Please don't take offense to this, Y.H.D.G.
 
As a legitimate buisness? Or even no buisness rather a private club with membership dues and privilages? Either are viable options and the hunting industry thrives on both. Check out some of the large ranches out west for this purpose.

Hunting and wheeling are not the same thing. The gov't is perfectly capable of and willing to shut down private wheeling locations, commercial businesses or not. Hell, it's probably arguable that a commercial business has fewer rights than an individual in this regard because of how the Clean Water Act is structured.
 
We will ahve to agree to disagree as I have a degree in Forest resource Management and one in Aquaculture, Fisheries and Wildlife Biology. I can not think of a single treee hugger in the entire forestry program at the number one forestry school on the east coast. Hunters and fishers, sure but they hate the greeniees and tree huggers as much as we do.
Foresters want to cut trees, log and burn to grow new trees.
i bet no one has asked what the impact to logging operations will be with these trails "permanently closed" by definition those were logging access roads.
Next time it comes to logging we need to protest the movement of all equipment through the forest.

Sorry I should have clarified. After I wrote it I thought about the actual foresters. What I meant was all the biologists that are working for the forest service. I have worked with them and they are bleeding hearts.
 
This is simply a land grab and there will be a shit ton of lots for sale in the next 2-3 years I guarntee it. Why else would teh be logging so much. I loved Tellico. I will NEVER forget looking down Lower 2 w/ 8" of snow on it and getting wood.
 
Over half of the trails there were unusable by stock vehicles as it was, compared to Uwharrie, where a stock vehicle can run most of the trails.
I disagree with that statement!
Basically, places that have such a high degree of trail difficulty really dont belong in a state park as it is. (IMO). However, Id say if the Forest Service would have done the work needed in 1986 when they originally looked at environmental conditions in Tellico, it may have been fixable then, and the park could have remained open.
That's your O and you're entitled to it. I definitely agree with the second part of the quote!
As for Tellico, I did get to enjoy it in a very limited fashion. It was however very mismanaged. Sad, but some of our more passionate advocates led to its demise. A middle ground was needed. A few only saw the hardcore wheeling potential of the area and never once considered a return to a more subdued use of the land. Its manner of use in its last yrs were never planned for or intended. On top of that nobody was smart enough to realize this evolvement. Better managementt was needed to keep up with the growing and evolving public demands. Management, permits and regulated use is the answer to public long term use. A do enjoy hardcore wheeling even if I don't get to participate very often. But such challenges will be regulated to private closed coarse arenas and property (like it or not) at some point in time. This will only change with a very fundamental shift in government and thats a whole other topic.
The issues brought up by Macdaddy and Warrior are among those that have been discussed repeatedly at SFWDA meeting and among wheelers in my circle in general.
There is no doubt that mismanagement by the FS has led to this closure decision. IMO the difficulty of challenge had nothing to do with it, the issue to the FS is water quality. Actually the issue to the FS is the threat of suit by TU over water quality issues, operating at the direction of the SELC.
However, there is no doubt that the growth of the sport and the proliferation of vehicle modifications toward larger tires and horsepower has had a negative impact on trail conditions where ever 4wd vehicles are operated. I have personally seen this happen over the last few years from Tellico to Devil's Playground to Moab.
I disagree that "nobody was smart enough". SFWDA realized early on that without maintenance the trails were at risk and for the last 8 years has effectively, through man hours, materials and equipment, poured several million dollars into trail upkeep and maintenance in the Upper Tellico area only to be slapped in the face by the FS in thanks for all their hard work!
I also disagree with both Macdaddy and Warrior that a "middle ground" or more moderate use is/was necessary. While, as I stated above, there is no doubt that large tired/high horsepower rigs do more damage than stock vehicles, I believe that with proper design and maintenance, high challenge areas can be effectively managed in a National Forest setting. With proper BMPs, drainage, culverts, silt ponds, ect, the erosion in places like Guardrail and Helicopter Pad can be contained while the challenge provided by erosion can be utilized. The Caliber study endorses this position.
To me, personally the bottom line issues are these:
1. The Forest Service, my employee, has demonstrated malfeasance in managing my property and should be held accountable. The FOIA documents provided by the FS prove that dollars, granted maybe small amounts to them, were misappropriated and misspent.
2. The Forest Service, an arm of my government, has acted badly in taking from us, the 4wd community, time and money to help them manage their responsibilities and then closed the park leaving us nothing in return for our help. Just another form of taxation without representation. I feel the 4wd community has been used badly by the FS and has acted in an unethical and immoral manner in dealing us.
 
To me, personally the bottom line issues are these:
1. The Forest Service, my employee, has demonstrated malfeasance in managing my property and should be held accountable. The FOIA documents provided by the FS prove that dollars, granted maybe small amounts to them, were misappropriated and misspent.
2. The Forest Service, an arm of my government, has acted badly in taking from us, the 4wd community, time and money to help them manage their responsibilities and then closed the park leaving us nothing in return for our help. Just another form of taxation without representation. I feel the 4wd community has been used badly by the FS and has acted in an unethical and immoral manner in dealing us.

agree 110%.

I'm not going to start a Uwharrie vs. Tellico war but if you didn't run the place on a regular basis, you don't really know the issues and if you've never been a member of the work crews that put their time in up there it's tough to say what the mgmt strategy was. I never try to speak out about Uwharrie b/c it's literally been years since I've even looked at the place. I wouldn't know the first thing about it's issues. We need support as a community and we don't need apathetic wheelers.
 
Smart enough was a very general term, but my point was made. You were just a little more elequent in the saying of it (Thank You) but I hope many leasons have been learned and progress is made from this rather than the alternative.
 
I saw this....

I was only into 4 wheeling from 2000-2006. I saw huge changes in the trails at Tellico over that time period. Lower 2 went from something that could be run on 33s to ????? moonscape? I dunno, the glorification of rock crawling as a "sport" seems to be leading to negative attention. Sure giant tires, loud exhausts, vehicles bouncing over huge obstacles is exciting but if you step back a bit it looks like pure destruction. This doesn't bother me because IT'S JUST DIRT, but the appearance of a rutted out trail with spiderwebbing bypasses starts to resemble a strip mine. More trails would help because it would help balance out the miles of trail with the number of users.

Just some rambling thoughts on what did in Tellico.


I myself, have been to 13 consecutive Great Smokey Mountain Trail Ride ( GSMTR ) at Tellico. Many people that I now call friends I met at Tellico NF. Many of them are members on this Forum! We went for 8 days every year and seen a lot of changes on the trails and in camp. Trails change because of erosion mainly, and tires and use.
 
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