Sawed Off Shotgun.

okay...another post. I know. Im OCD.

first off....lemme start by saying, even after all this researching and posting....no one is going to really fuck with you for having a sawwed off shotgun sitting in the closet for home defense.


but...just as a "legal disclaimer" i do feel its important to note what the law says. even though its in the garage now.


I do want to point out the C&R (curio and relic) exception. You can manufacture a copy, replica, clone, or restore an antique weapon. You can manufacture your own smooth bore muzzle loaded musket larger than .50 caliber (it is illegal to posses anything larger than 50 cal, with the exception of muzzle loaded or specefically lisenced sporting rifles i.e. the .577 tyranosaur). You can even manufacture your own Canon, as long as an officer can easily identify it as a replica of an antique military armament.

but to modify your own firearm beyond factory configuration, is technically illegal. The lawful way to achieve any modification on your fire arm is to purchase the parts and take them to a lisenced gunsmith and have him perform the work.

but again....no one is really going to fuck with you over puttin your own stock on your 10/22 or changing barrels on your AR15.
 
BigRedB2 said:
well..if you want to get technically, you cannot perform any modification to a fire arm without a class III FFL. its legally considered "manufacturing" a fire arm. You have Clyde Barrow to thank for this view point as he "manufactured" his own concealable browning BAR rifles. bad ass pieces of work, sawed off barrels, pistol gripped and shoulder slung so he could throw the rifle up like modern day M4. the FBI was severely out gunned when they came upon Bonnie and Clyde.
could you imagine firing a full auto 30-06 from the hip! Clyde barrow was an f'ing man.
anyway...after this the federal govt took a negative attitude towards citizens modifying their own fire arms.
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Pretty sure he used Remington A-5 sawn off shotguns, believe the talk of concealing a sawn off BAR was a exaggeration or a myth, but I have heard that also.
 
you can see it in person at the Missouri Highway Patrol's Museum




atexashideout.tripod.com_scat02.jpg





yeah, he had a whole assortment of custom weapons, including the remington you mentioned.

http://texashideout.tripod.com/guns.html
 
Damn, just read that bit, still can't imagine how you could conceal the "scattergun" had to be around 3 feet, even shortened.
 
BigRedB2 said:
Clyde Barrow, killed May of 1934.
National Firearms Act June of 1934.
"A shotgun or rifle having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length or any other weapon, other than a pistol or revolver, from which a shot is discharged by an explosive if such weapon is capable of being concealed on the person, or a machinegun, and includes a muffler or silencer for any firearm whether or not such a firearm is included in the foregoing definition"
but, i think your arguement was that they do not consider it illegal to "manfacture" a fire arm.
it looks like in 2009 the definitions were changed (in the BATF handbook) a little bit, to clarifiy that you cannot manufacture for the purpose of reselling.
This is only the change to BATF handbook definitions, i dont think the actual statute was ammended.
i need to dig further...but im pretty sure you cannot build your own fire arm unless it is smooth bore and muzzle loaded or a curio replica.
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I like how you only post the bits that look like they support what you're saying. Any non felon can in fact build his own firearm from whatever the he wants as long as he has no intentions to sell or distribute and it doesn't have a fun switch. Go ahead and ask the atf, they will tell you the same. I have personally built my own romanian ak recievers and rifles for my own use as well as 100% legal suppressors and I'm no ffl holder--and fwiw a class 3 is a dealer not a mfr.
 
§ 479.62 Application to make.
No person shall make a firearm unless the person has filed with the Director a written application on Form 1 (Firearms), Application to Make and Register a Firearm, in duplicate, executed under the penalties of perjury, to make and register the firearm and has received the approval of the Director to make the firearm which approval shall effectuate registration of the weapon to the applicant. The application shall identify the firearm to be made by serial number, type, model, caliber or gauge, length of barrel, other marks of identification, and the name and address of original manufacturer (if the applicant is not the original manufacturer). The applicant must be identified on the Form 1 (Firearms) by name and address and, if other than a natural person, the name and address of the principal officer or authorized representative and the employer identification number and, if an individual, the identification must include the date and place of birth and the information prescribed in §479.63. Each applicant shall identify the Federal firearms license and special (occupational) tax stamp issued to the applicant, if any. The applicant shall also show required information evidencing that making or possession of the firearm would not be in violation of law. If the making is taxable, a remittance in the amount of $200 shall be submitted with the application in accordance with the instructions on the form. If the making is taxable and the application is approved, the Director will affix a National Firearms Act stamp to the original application in the space provided therefor and properly cancel the stamp (see §479.67). The approved application will be returned to the applicant. If the making of the firearm is tax exempt under this part, an explanation of the basis of the exemption shall be attached to the Form 1 (Firearms).
 
the short answers.

can you legally make (alter, modify or create) a fire arm? Yes.


can you do it without notifying and getting permission from the Gov? No.
 
It doesn't even need to have a serial number except for my own personal record keeping. And contrary to popular belief, the only time a firearm is ever "registered" in the free states at least is within a day of when the sot ffl manufactures it. You're confusing personal use with business here. Nfa items like sbs, sbrs, suppressors and aow's can still be privately built but are a whole other page of rules. Machineguns can only be built by ffls licensed to manufacture after 1986. None of this even pertains to this thread though as all he is doing is modifying his own long gun in a legal manner.
 
braxton357 said:
None of this even pertains to this thread though as all he is doing is modifying his own long gun in a legal manner.
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Make as defined by the ATF and NFA means to manufacture, modify or alter. he is altering a firearm from its manufacturers configuration.

im not saying he shouldnt do it. Im just pointing out that if for some reason you came under govt scrutiny for something "making" your own fire arms could become a headache for you.


is he ever going to get caught, or have the govt say anything to him...not unless he walks into a mall with it.
 
An even better reason to buy an 18" if that's what you need, rather than cutting down:

Say somebody busts into your house at night. This shotgun was closest to you and loaded, say it was 20"bbl, and you cut down to 18.1" -- perfectly legal, even without an AOW permit. You kill the intruder. You are pre-convicted by the media, because the headlines will read "MAN KILLED BY SAWED OFF SHOTGUN". And that's the way the jury will hear it to. (Liberal Activist Prosecutor) "Is it true that you sawed off the barrel of this shotgun, manufacturing a 'sawed off shotgun'" (You) "Yes, but it's eightt..." (Liberal Activist Prosecutor) "Just answer the question, please." You are screwed.

That said, I got one I have thought of doing the same to, but need to move the front bead sight too...just not worth the effort compared to swapping a barrel.
 
kaiser brings up a good point, one that has been discussed here before. you will be seen as a gun toting nut even more so because "you were manfucatring" your own fire arm.

however, after reading some of the more recent news stories, people defending themsevles with their own fire arms seem to the trendy thing for the news media these days. maybe thats a good thing.
 
Maybe in a movie. Aside from any case where the "intruder" was a federal agent, I challenge you to find one case where a person has been ostracized for using a legal firearm to legitimately defend their home.
And so far every statute you've posted is from title 2 of the gca, referring to nfa or "class 3" items, not regular firearms. I would also love to see any bit of evidence suggesting modification of a gun outside nfa stuff is unlawful--you won't, because that's ridiculous. As bust happy as the atf is, you think that bass pro, cabelas, and even wal mart would sell barrels, stocks, and recievers? I don't want to come off like a dick, but I can't stand how often I hear made up gun laws making a large part of legit Americans sound like criminals. The second amendment still exists, even moreso the last couple years.
 
Sorry about causing a mess and stirring stuff up. I'm definitely wanting to keep it legal like others have said. I own several shotguns I was just wanting to try something different with this one. I gave $20 for it so it doesn't mean a lot to me and it's an older gun so I figured I'd give it a shot.
 
braxton357 said:
As bust happy as the atf is, you think that bass pro, cabelas, and even wal mart would sell barrels, stocks, and recievers? .
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walmart sells lisence plate covers.


no one is stopping you from buying the parts and taking them to a gunsmith (hence why bass pro, gander mtn, and cabellas have a gunsmith on site)

also. why did this get moved back to General Chit Chat.

Im not debating anymore on the subject in the open are of the website.
 
Rule 1 - If Braxton is arguing with you, he is probably right.

Braxton doesnt like to argue, but when he goes through the trouble it is my observation that he is typically damned sure about what he is talking.
 
It got moved back because the discussion was of value to all members.

And it's not about anything illegal. :flipoff2:

It was kinda unfair to the OP that he couldn't see the rest of the thread, too.
 
SkyHiK5 said:
Rule 1 - If Braxton is arguing with you, he is probably right.

Braxton doesnt like to argue, but when he goes through the trouble it is my observation that he is typically damned sure about what he is talking.
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Lol. well, theres one more to add to my list of people not to argue with.




saf-t scissors said:
And it's not about anything illegal. :flipoff2:
QUOTE]

lol, which makes the last two pages a waste.
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superman27344 said:
So it is illegal to own a shotgun that does not meat those length requirements or just illegal to carry away from the house. Asking for a friend.
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Nothing is illegal if nobody knows about it....

Edit: but that includes don’t brag to your friends. And in this day and age can’t nobody keep a secret but yourself.
 
superman27344 said:
So it is illegal to own a shotgun that does not meat those length requirements or just illegal to carry away from the house. Asking for a friend.
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10 years later your friend should know :lol:
 
superman27344 said:
So it is illegal to own a shotgun that does not meat those length requirements or just illegal to carry away from the house. Asking for a friend.
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Yes unless you file a form1 and send in your 200 bucks to the NFA branch of the ATF. Once you get your stamp then cut away.
 
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