'00 F250 7.3l diesel help

Lurch830

Lurch830

messin' with sasquatch
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Location
Wilton & Albemarle, NC
Tow pig in my signature has lately been slower & slower to crank/fire and now will not crank at all (still spins). I need some things to check before I take it to a shop to be fixed.

I thought it was a battery issue, but I'm relocating my batteries to the toolbox since the 'new' ones I get from work are too big for the battery trays (CAT generator batteries), it will get some weight off the front end & they're free. They are charged & test good with a load tester and will spin the starter for a few minutes (~30 seconds at a time) before slowing down. So I'm thinking it could be any of the following:
computer issue?
bad glow plugs (probably not since it doesn't crank when the block heater is plugged in?)
bad fuel pump
clogged tank fuel filter/pump (fuel filter under the hood was changed 6k ago)

Any other ideas or things I should check? I won't be able to get back to it until the weekend and I'd like to knock out as many as I can at once.

Thanks,
Brandon
 
Also, I'd like to put a solenoid in the toolbox with my batteries to have one disconnected in case its sitting for a while that I could turn on with a switch in the cab. Any thoughts on this? Know of anyone who's done something similar that can withstand ~1000 Amps?

Thanks,
Brandon
 
fordwheelinman said:
Sounds like a ICP/IPR issue. Or possibly high pressure oil pump.

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Click to expand...
Any way to test these to not just start throwing parts at it? I'll look stuff up tonight but figured someone may have a bookmarked site.

Jeff B said:
Change the fuel filter (can still be clogged) and do the glow plug relay upgrade first. Then look at the harness of the ICP.

Test your current glow plug relay. Welcome to guzzle's White-Rodgers (Stancor) GPR replacement Mod Web Page
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I've actually already got the White-Rodgers GPR, but I'll test it this weekend too along with looking at the ICP/IPR & HPOP.

Another thing I just thought of...during the wait to start light there is some very faint clicking coming from under the hood on the passenger side (I think - hard to tell from in the cab). It keeps clicking after the wait to start light goes off...not sure if that helps diagnose anything but more info is better right?
 
What your hpo while cranking? If it's not above ~4-500ish she ain't gonna start. I'm assuming you checked oil level? Once they get a gallon low they won't start either. Then I'd move onto the GPR if all that checks out.
 
A little check list for OP

  1. Check engine oil level. If its not on the stick then its prob not gonna crank.
  2. When engine turns over does the tach move? If not replace the cam position sensor.
  3. turn ignition switch to the key on engine off and see if you hear the fuel pump buzzing. If not the pump has prob shit the bed.
  4. If you have no scanner just unplug the ICP sensor. This will cause the engine to go into a default setting and the truck should start if the pigtail or ICP are bad.
  5. check the connector at the IPR. They can burn up and its the last thing you can really do without a scanner.
  6. With a scanner check codes. There will be a p1280(or something like that) code since you tried to crank without the ICP hooked up.
  7. with a scanner check the high pressure oil pressure while cranking. Has to be over 500 or so psi as someone already said. If not 500 psi you prob have a bad IPR
  8. Next i would run an injector buzz test. all 8 will buzz first then each one individually.
That should get you started. PM me if you need some help ill shoot you my digits.

Somehow i just noticed in the op that it stopped cranking. Thats what i get for skimming the thread. Im an Iduit
 
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Loganwayne said:
does it have oil pressure when you try to crank it?
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No idea, haven't tested that & honestly not 100% sure how...

Chris_Keziah said:
What your hpo while cranking? If it's not above ~4-500ish she ain't gonna start. I'm assuming you checked oil level? Once they get a gallon low they won't start either. Then I'd move onto the GPR if all that checks out.
Click to expand...
No idea...is it as simple as hooking up a basic scanner to the OBDII port? Do I need a special scanner or put a gauge on a port? I actually haven't check the oil level, but it is due for an oil change this weekend. I'll check before I do the oil change.

palmetto zuk said:
A little check list for OP

  1. Check engine oil level. If its not on the stick then its prob not gonna crank.
  2. When engine turns over does the tach move? If not replace the cam position sensor.
  3. turn ignition switch to the key on engine off and see if you hear the fuel pump buzzing. If not the pump has prob shit the bed.
  4. If you have no scanner just unplug the ICP sensor. This will cause the engine to go into a default setting and the truck should start if the pigtail or ICP are bad.
  5. check the connector at the IPR. They can burn up and its the last thing you can really do without a scanner.
  6. With a scanner check codes. There will be a p1280(or something like that) code since you tried to crank without the ICP hooked up.
  7. with a scanner check the high pressure oil pressure while cranking. Has to be over 500 or so psi as someone already said. If not 500 psi you prob have a bad IPR
  8. Next i would run an injector buzz test. all 8 will buzz first then each one individually.
That should get you started. PM me if you need some help ill shoot you my digits.

Somehow i just noticed in the op that it stopped cranking. Thats what i get for skimming the thread. Im an Iduit
Click to expand...
I want to say the tach is moving while its spinning over, but I haven't made a specific mental note. I'll check the fuel pump this weekend too, just haven't had much time to check everything I've wanted to so far. #4 & #5 - will do! #7 & #8 - Will a basic scanner from AdvanceAuto work or do I need a special one?

AV8 said:
Had a similar issue, ended up being a worn out starter.
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Same thing happened with my old '96 F350 7.3l...ended up dying at a gas station in SC. Caught a ride with the gas station attendant to the local Advance right at closing time & changed the starter at the pump!
 
Another thing to add is if you have cranked on it for an extended amount of time your injector oil might be low/gone.Check the oil level in the hpop resevior.If you cant see it then its low.Regardless if that's the problem or not it wont start until you fill that back up w oil despite what you do to the rest of it.
 
I know you said you have big batteries, and they are good. However, it will spin over without enough voltage to que the computer to start the engine.

Try a charger for an hour or two and try to start it. IIRC the computer has to see 11volts to fire the engine.
 
1-tonmudder said:
Another thing to add is if you have cranked on it for an extended amount of time your injector oil might be low/gone.Check the oil level in the hpop resevior.If you cant see it then its low.Regardless if that's the problem or not it wont start until you fill that back up w oil despite what you do to the rest of it.
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Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner (I think)!

Jeff B said:
I know you said you have big batteries, and they are good. However, it will spin over without enough voltage to que the computer to start the engine.

Try a charger for an hour or two and try to start it. IIRC the computer has to see 11volts to fire the engine.
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I did a load test on them before & after trying to crank it cold and again before & after when I had the block heater on for ~4 hours. They tested good for voltage & load all 4 times.


Here's what I did this morning:
Tested GPR - GOOD
Tested glow plugs - 4 on passenger's side bad, 4 on driver's side good
Tested fuel pump - GOOD
Checked tach while spinning over - bouncing a bit off zero
Felt starter for abnormal heat - GOOD
Tried to do injector buzz test - my OBDII reader does not do that...going to rent one later today.
Checked for codes - NONE
Checked engine oil level - GOOD (maybe 2 pints low, still between 'full' & 'add 1 quart')
Checked HPOP oil level - BAD
~topped off almost a quart

This is what is still troubling me...I had one of my big batteries & my 200A jump box connected and the engine was barely turning over..not nearly enough to crank. Unplugged the ICP sensor...same thing...plugged it back in. Scratched my head for a bit, tried cranking again because "Why the hell not?"...fired right up. Could it take a while for the HPOP oil level being topped off before the engine fires?

Letting it charge & warm up before grabbing lunch & renting an injector buzz test tool.
 
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Lurch830 said:
Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner (I think)!


I did a load test on them before & after trying to crank it cold and again before & after when I had the block heater on for ~4 hours. They tested good for voltage & load all 4 times.


Here's what I did this morning:
Tested GPR - GOOD
Tested glow plugs - 4 on passenger's side bad, 4 on driver's side good
Tested fuel pump - GOOD
Checked while spinning - bouncing a bit off zero
Felt starter for abnormal heat - GOOD
Tried to do injector buzz test - my OBDII reader does not do that...going to rent one later today.
Checked for codes - NONE
Checked engine oil level - GOOD (maybe 2 pints low, still between 'full' & 'add 1 quart')
Checked HPOP oil level - BAD
~topped off almost a quart

This is what is still troubling me...I had one of my big batteries & my 200A jump box connected and the engine was barely turning over..not nearly enough to crank. Unplugged the ICP sensor...same thing...plugged it back in. Scratched my head for a bit, tried cranking again because "Why the hell not?"...fired right up. Could it take a while for the HPOP oil level being topped off before the engine fires?

Letting it charge & warm up before grabbing lunch & renting an injector buzz test tool.
Click to expand...

It’s gonna take a min for the oil to get to the injectors so it might have just been a coincidence.


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Find it odd for an entire bank of glow plugs to go bad at same time, how is the uvch? Has it ever been changed? Smell anything from slightly burnt to holy shit that burnt wire smell just took my breath? Pop the oil cap and stick your nose to it
 
redneckjeep87 said:
Find it odd for an entire bank of glow plugs to go bad at same time, how is the uvch? Has it ever been changed? Smell anything from slightly burnt to holy shit that burnt wire smell just took my breath? Pop the oil cap and stick your nose to it
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Agreed on the oddness, and I haven't ruled the UVCH out yet, but the oil fill tube/cap doesn't smell like electrical burning. Last winter it was a bit sluggish, so maybe I've had 2-3 bad glow plugs for a while? Might try my hand at replacing the plugs/UVCH/gasket myself, but I'm low on time with selling my house in Concord & finding a place to stay in Raleigh.
 
Update: Came back from Raleigh for Thanksgiving and to hunt. Plugged the truck in Wednesday evening to take the suspect glow plugs out of the equation. Thursday morning the engine would spin over but never fired up. Left it plugged in and tried again 3-4 hours later, still spinning but never fires. I'm almost at the point of just throwing new ICR, ICP & CPS at it before taking it to a diesel shop for buzz & cylinder contribution tests. Any other ideas or things to look at?
 
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Lurch830 said:
Update: Came back from Raleigh for Thanksgiving and to hunt. Plugged the truck in Wednesday morning to take the suspect glow plugs out of the equation. Thursday morning the engine would spin over but never fired up. Left it plugged in and tried again 3-4 hours later, still spinning but never fires. I'm almost at the point of just throwing new ICR, ICP & CPS at it before taking it to a diesel shop for buzz & cylinder contribution tests. Any other ideas or things to look at?
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You can sell it and buy a Cummins far less complicated[emoji6] sorry that is all I have

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@mysterync is really good with these. Maybe he will chime in.
 
Glad to help!
I'd start with data the data at this point!
IPR Command
RPM data pid value
ICP pressure while cranking (this can be using the scan tool pid or a manual gauge)
Lube oil pressure while cranking (and how long it takes to obtain lube oil pressure)
Voltage drop at the starter while cranking
Fuel pressure

If you've got a scope laying around a cranking relative compression test and some IDM waveforms can be useful. Considering you feel like you've continually had some cranking speed issues, I'd likely start with a relative compression test here in the shop. This would allow me see indications of a failing starter motor.
Even with 8 dead glow plugs the truck would start at our current temps, it may smoke and fight to start, but it will start.

I'll be honest, I've not read the whole thread so if I've suggested something that's already been provided my apologies! We're having some thanksgiving festivities, and I'm always on my phone...or so I'm told lol


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mysterync said:
Glad to help!
I'd start with data the data at this point!
IPR Command
RPM data pid value
ICP pressure while cranking (this can be using the scan tool pid or a manual gauge)
Lube oil pressure while cranking (and how long it takes to obtain lube oil pressure)
Voltage drop at the starter while cranking
Fuel pressure

If you've got a scope laying around a cranking relative compression test and some IDM waveforms can be useful. Considering you feel like you've continually had some cranking speed issues, I'd likely start with a relative compression test here in the shop. This would allow me see indications of a failing starter motor.
Even with 8 dead glow plugs the truck would start at our current temps, it may smoke and fight to start, but it will start.

I'll be honest, I've not read the whole thread so if I've suggested something that's already been provided my apologies! We're having some thanksgiving festivities, and I'm always on my phone...or so I'm told lol


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Click to expand...

Long shot, but you don't happen to know of a reputable shop in Cabarrus or Stanly county do you? I don't have a scanner that can do all that and more importantly I don't have the time right now.
 
mysterync said:
Power by pool is in Salisbury
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Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'm also going to call Performance Diesel in Albemarle since that would make getting it there easier (my hometown).

To add to the confusion & the factors wanting me to pull my hair out, it cranked up before I left for Raleigh this evening. It had been plugged in (to rule out glow plugs) & I had all 4 batteries (2 OEM size & 2 1.5x OEM size) charging while doing laundry to make sure it wasn't lack of power. Hooked all 4 batteries & my 200 amp jump box and turned the key. Spun for ~5 seconds & fired up. Sounded a little rough for ~3 seconds and then smoothed out. This leads me to believe something electrical (sensor failing, faulty wiring, etc).
 
Lurch830 said:
Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'm also going to call Performance Diesel in Albemarle since that would make getting it there easier (my hometown).

To add to the confusion & the factors wanting me to pull my hair out, it cranked up before I left for Raleigh this evening. It had been plugged in (to rule out glow plugs) & I had all 4 batteries (2 OEM size & 2 1.5x OEM size) charging while doing laundry to make sure it wasn't lack of power. Hooked all 4 batteries & my 200 amp jump box and turned the key. Spun for ~5 seconds & fired up. Sounded a little rough for ~3 seconds and then smoothed out. This leads me to believe something electrical (sensor failing, faulty wiring, etc).
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For starters a good scan tool and a fuel pressure test would be best! If the truck "cackles" or rattles louder than usual this would indicate a fuel pressure issue.

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Lurch, it seems like a constant variable that every time you hook up a different power source (another battery, charger, jump box, etc...) that your truck will start. I would first make sure that all your battery connections are good. Especially the passenger side battery positive. I scratched my head on this one time. Got a lot of the same issues (extended turning over time, faint clicking, buzzing from under hood) Drivers side battery would drop down below 10 vdc while cranking, passenger side still at 12 vdc. Only when i hooked up a jump box did it ever start. Then i found loose connection on passenger side. Hope this helps, all assuming you havent put batteries in the tool box yet, and still hooked up like factory.
 
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