4x4 Park Ideas - Thoughts?

uzj100

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Location
Raleigh
Guys,

In England there are 4x4 parks all over the place.

How many acres would it take to make a good 4x4 park? What would be a yearly maintenance figure? How much insurance would be required, umbrella policy of like $5M and signed waivers on file.

Brainstorming Ideas - These are intended to reduce the yearly maintenance and up keep of the park.

No tires larger than 37 inches
Street legal and inspected only.
No motorcycles or atv's.
Street legal mufflers - for noise.
Less than an hour from the Triangle
$20 a day/$400 a year - This would be on a per person basis so that the person with membership could bring any vehicle they are riding in.
On site Tech inspection
Daily numbers limited, especially on Saturdays and Sunday - Call ahead or check the web before driving to the park for current numbers
Closed when there are excessive weather conditions - once again to cut down on yearly costs of maintenance.
Club days
Signed waivers for personal damage and injuries.

Any ideas would be welcome.

Thanks,

uzj100
 
Will farting be allowed?


Seems restrictive to me.
 
Too restrictive........
37 max tires????
street legal rigs????
No loud mufflers?????
No wheelin in the snow or really rainy days????

WTF.......

Then talk about acreage.....
 
Ok. Give me your ideas. Remember you have very limited money and the venture must last 10 years or more.
 
Lots of people haul their rigs that are not street legal. Lot of these have tires over 37", loud exhausts, ect, ect. Maybe you could rent a bobcat/loader?? every so often to take care deep ruts if thats the maintenance you spoke of( I just don't know the maintenance involved). Maybe a local wheeler would have access to one and cut you a deal. I think the inspection should be minimal.. Just make sure a rig has rollbars if needed (open tops/flimsy cab)seatbelts, and adequate for the trail if its going to be busy and they might hold up the line if they break down. But.. a similar thead was started for someone wanting do something similar near Yadkinville..... There was EPA issues, Political issues that you may want to look into.

Maybe....20 acres would give you a small "motocross" style trail that utilizes space. Realistically I think it would be much more... 1 sqare acre is about 200'x200' Measure it out and use you imagination......
 
I'm just thinking...

Uwharrie = $30/year
your offer = $400/year

...and yours has all kinds of restrictions...

so, where do you think my time/money is going?

Greg
 
bigwaylon said:
I'm just thinking...
Uwharrie = $30/year
your offer = $400/year
...and yours has all kinds of restrictions...
so, where do you think my time/money is going?
Greg
Click to expand...

Just what I was thinking.


I saw 500 acres for sale somewhere. I would think that would make a decent park. Not real sure though.
 
I'm gonna go against the grain here, just for conversation's sake.
I actually like teh idea of it being somewhat restrictive.
Reason? Aside from what you mention, environmental issues, it also gears the clientele in a certain direction. Basically guys who are stock to moderately built. You are excluding the guys that are pretty hard core.
Why could thsi be good? Consider the guy that has 33s and a locker, but otherwise stock and is perfectly happy with it. Or maybe even just 31s and wants to get it a little dirty and play a little. Just a few times a year, has no interest in going big and $$$ etc. Often it is hard for that guy to feel liek he can "hang' w/ the Big Guys w/ 44s no exhaust huge motors, crawler boxes etc. He knows they are thinking "dinky" etc. He will be more comfy "playing" w/ a more mild crowd, and that the obstacles won't be crazy and 10' high rocks lol.
Now I know that URE is there and usable etc, but the nature of it is very different. Not really inviting to just-above-stockers, or appear easily accessable, to those who aren't already part of a crowd or have buddies who go there already.

Personally I think there are many many guys out there like this, esp many many guys who just want to get their new Jeep muddy and show off to their friends at work. Honestly I think there are > them than there are guys w/ big tires etc... so from a $$$ standpoint you might be better. Plus... if you draw in guys that have less general obsession in the "sport", they are more likely to pay you a little more b/c yer local and easy to get to, and don't know URE costs less...
This is just my thinking. Please nobody throw apples.
 
Guys,

Brainstorming - out of the box thinking.

Land Less than 1 hr from the triangle costs bucks to purchase land.

Yeah, my locked LC with 33s is not going on any extreme stuff. I am thinking along the lines of www.virclub.com
 
RatLabGuy said:
I'm gonna go against the grain here, just for conversation's sake.
I actually like teh idea of it being somewhat restrictive.
Click to expand...


I'm right with you on 90% of it...

just can't imagine spending $400 for the year...

and it better be loads of fun for $20/day...

although, I try to hit the trails once a month...so between DPG, UNF, Tellico and this new spot...plus a couple longer trips possibly thrown in...I would be there but 2-3 times a year anyway...

but...$10/day for Tellico vs. $20/day for this spot?


you'd be better off trying to make some money by having shop space on the premises for rent, or concessions, or having an area that spectators could pay a couple bucks to sit and watch...



Greg
 
Edit - Iagree on teh cost.
Try $15/day
and maybe $250 per year

Most guys will do 1-day deal
But that is who you are making the $$ on
Or... better yet... have graded fee per usage - easy trails (less maintainace) $10, $20 for harder stuff.

Also, if you want to keep your costs down - I'd not off a "tech" on hand, as you'll have to pay thsi fellow.
Better, as mentioned above - have a shop area that is "rentable" by the hour or something. That will pay for itself.

And consessions are a real ticket to $$$ and happy customers.
 
what about camping spots. tents only. or sleep in your rig. concessions would be great but you still have to buy and cook food and pay someone for that. i would build the trails, charge a daily fee or yearly membership. have some trail clean up days ask for volunteers. build a small office where people can pay and sign waivers. with drink and snack machines. with some trash cans. any 4x4 welcome. big trucks dont mind if they need to pull out a smaller truck when they are stuck. i like all 4x4's myself. as long as the sport is growing thats great for everyone thats into this stuff. trails rocks mud. just have fun. the more places to go wheeling the better.just my thoughts. thanks
 
RatLabGuy said:
Often it is hard for that guy to feel liek he can "hang' w/ the Big Guys w/ 44s no exhaust huge motors, crawler boxes etc. He knows they are thinking "dinky" etc. He will be more comfy "playing" w/ a more mild crowd, and that the obstacles won't be crazy and 10' high rocks lol.
Click to expand...
This is true with me. I mean yes at the time being my rig is stock as can be an though I would like to make it to the URE meet I'm a little aprehensive cause I know that someone will have to help me across some obsticals and I don't want to become a pain in anyones side. I mean the only mod that has been done to my vehicle is a set of Superwinch manual hubs, and the brush guard that was on it when I bought it. And running just 16" tires I even feel awkward around someone with 31's. This is mainly a $$$ issue there are several things I would love to do to this vehicle but being laid off and not drawing alot and hardly any jobs around means untill I come across something I'm pretty much a stocker with a bad 4wheeling bug that won't go away no matter what I try.
 
I was thinking about a few things on my way home (can we say obsessive?). First, regarding cost (for those that say No Way I'd pay, go to URE instead), you will *never* be able to be as cheap as a federally funded park Anybody with a brain understands this. They don't get alot, but they Do have $$$ from the feds and state. They aren't paying for land. You are. Etc etc. That's likeexpecting a private pool to cost less than a public one. Won't happen.

Regarding fees - why charge same per person? What about riders? If it were me, I'd charge 2 fees, 1 for driver and 1 for riders. Dosn't matter who is who, and if they switch... but charge riders less. Here's the deal, first time I would go w/ a buddy (atleast) in the passenger seat. But my buddy wouldn't want to go as a rider if he had to pay as much, but dosn't get to drive!. It dosn't cost you any more for 4 people than 1. This way I can bring a friend who dosn't own a 4x4 but wants to play, you make > $$ and the word wil lspread faster (my buddy tags along cheap, talks it up at work etc - 2 mo later, he buys a 4x4 and comes around....

Also you could offer "recovery" on a FEE BASIS ONLY. We all know that in most cases somebody will help otehrs out, get them pulled back in etc -but it'd be nice to know that it is always an optionin dire circumstances... but make it pricy enough that people do NOT want to rely on it, else you'll hav yahoos doing stupid things knowing they've got an out.
 
your vehicle shouldnt bother you because the big guys started out small themself. i have 42's on my bronco but i dont think its any better than any one else's rig. when i see a stock rig offroading it makes me happy because thats just another guy like me trying to enjoy what he loves to do. one day his rig will be full of aftermarket stuff also. im just saying the sport is heavily growing. so if you plan on a trail park you need to cater to everyone.
 
OK I see a good point about the less capable rigs. Trying to make something appeal to everyone. I see the point about not being funded by the state. What about looking further out into Bum F&(#. How's land prices in say.. Mebane? Or further east towards Greenville. I've only been to ECU twice and I know for quite a while there fucking nothing.. and then theres ECU.... Gotta be some decent land prices out that way.
 
This is great discussion.

I would like the 4x4 park to make exactly $1 per year and be cheap and as safe as possible for everyone involved. A business has to make a profit after about 3yrs or the feds start getting suspicious.

50 acres? 100 acres?

What do you think?
 
broncomania said:
your vehicle shouldnt bother you because the big guys started out small themself. i have 42's on my bronco but i dont think its any better than any one else's rig. when i see a stock rig offroading it makes me happy because thats just another guy like me trying to enjoy what he loves to do. one day his rig will be full of aftermarket stuff also. im just saying the sport is heavily growing. so if you plan on a trail park you need to cater to everyone.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. Everybody starts small... and as a small guy, I have a lot of respect for "the big guys", you guys that have been doing thsi awhile, have invested lots of time and have plenty of wisdom to share.
However, my point is the level of comfort. Seeing guys in big crazy rigs is just intimidating. Its awesome, yes. But As posted above, nobody wants to be "that guy" that is behind everybody else, that's slipping and breaking when otehrs are cruising right by.... feeeling like you're just "the noobie".
Maybe the thin gto do is just have seperate sections etc.
I just wanted to put this out there as an idea. to think about.

The following is a slightly different issue, but related. I know sooo many guys w/ trucks and jeeps that are all stock. Many of them, if they knew of a place they could just pop out for a Saturday afternoon and just get it muddy, would do so, at least try it once. They don't necessarily want to do crazy obstacles, or want to get 33s or anything - just want to show off some mud to their buddies and have their wifes shake their heads (C'mon everybody loves that part).
Hence, a nice challenging Stocker might be worth considering.
Hell, to some extent that kind of "toy park" is an excellent sales pitch for the local Jeep and truck dealerships.

But, then you have to decide IF you want to have a whole bunch of stocker guys around. This would probably become the largest liability as far as PITA clientele who are unprepared and doing dumb things too...
 
So why not have trails for both? Paragon offers trails for scenic riding, stock more or less. And trails for you better be built tough as nails to ride. It wouldn't be hard to do.
 
i got 37's so its ok with me

seriously though i think i like the idea if you drop the price a little. i agree on it kind of the same lines that ratlabguy said in his first reponse to it. also if you wanted more attention, then rocks mud and ruts are cool but put some urban style obstacles. that would draw crowds. thats more $ to build though.
 
ratlabguy has a good point. i also agree with rob. im just thinking it would be great if somehow everyone could be involved. different trails with smaller to larger obstacles would be great. that way you can put signs at starting points determining how technical the trails are. bigger trucks not allowed on less technical trails. however driver experience could be a factor here. but thats when we just have to help each other out. im still learning myself. small rigs allowed on all trails . large ( big tires ) rigs restricted to certain areas. some of the trails could cross each other in places if needed to make more use of the land. you could use orange signs for very technical, blue signs for less technical. yellow for moderate. these are just ideas but could be used for easier identifying where you are allowed to go in at.
 
Been thinking about this quite a bit. And got struck with an idea as well. Why not all of us chip in and open a good sized park with trails for everyone as mentioned above but it could kinda be like our own little place that we the people of NC4x4.com provide to the public and take care of. I'm sure with the # of members here if we all chiped in a few bucks here and there we could get a good ammount of acreage and I for one wouldn't mind helping on the trail design. Surely someone here can get up the equipment needed and all that. Not trying to take away from your idea just something I got to thinking of.

As for your idea maybe offer a discount for those of us that are on here. Ofcourse you would have to have a proof of membership possibly the email sent out when you signed up or something similar. 50 acres to me seems kind of small for a 4x4 park. All your trails would be bunched together and you would have a high possibility of someone running off one trail and ending up right in the middle of another and possibly stricking another rig.
 
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