4x4 Park Ideas - Thoughts?

For me the key would be location. I'd gladly pay $20 a day to wheel somewhere closer to home. Driving 2 1/2 hours to get to URE is painful.
 
StudNuts said:
I could care less about the scenery, but for 40 i better have a boner all day long.
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but what if the scenery was dancers along the trail?

:lol: :lol:

that may solve your other requirement...

Greg
 
How would you know if you've never even been? Reading your posts over the last year, you are still trying to get to Uwharrie ... good grief ... it really isn't that big a deal. You should wheel that POS a little bit before you offer up an opinion.
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I don't have to have actually been on a trail to know how hard it would be to TURN AROUND on some of the ones I've seen you guys post pictures of. And if someone knew they couldn't make it up Kodak Rock, say, once they see it up close, and they DO manage to turn around, how do they get their truck back past all the ones that are still facing toward the obstacle?

And in case you missed it, the main reason I still haven't gone to Uwharrie YET is that I don't want to be one of the ones that holds up fifty other rigs.

And NO tanks don't count
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Oh, but they DO. I've taken a tank through spots that are tighter for one of them than those Uwharrie trails are for one of your rock buggies. (EDIT: and some of those tight spots were smack in the middle of German towns with streets that were built for horse carts, 400 years ago.) And the only and I mean ONLY real difference is that a tank will turn in place... like putting a board on a table and spinning it... as long as there's room on each side to not hit something like trees or huge rocks (or 600 year old houses), or fall off the side of a slope.

And like the other guy said back there somewhere, yes, an Abrams or M-60A1 will get stuck or break just like something with wheels, if it hits the wrong thing the wrong way. Been there and done THAT, too. Been pulled out and winched out and pulled other people out, and the only difference there was how big the cables were.
 
I'll though in 50
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I can pop for the other $27. That only leaves an even $832 Large to go.

Okay, seriously, if I knew there WAS a group effort to purchase that kind of land, hell yeah I'd chip in whatever I could.
 
But example.. if uwharrie changed its cost to $20 a day more then half the stock rigs would probably not run the park very much due to cost as highly modified rigs would not run it due to no hard obsticles.. so if you want an easy park you better keep your day prices down .. or just make a park for all types of rigs and charge $20 a day or more. people will pay to play..
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ORRRRR... charge $5 for stock or nearly stock trucks, $10 for "mini-monsters" and $20 for the built rock rigs. Have trails specifically geared to each group and make sure they don't intersect anywhere but at the campgrounds.
 
I like this idea ^^^
Except that what'd you have to do really is to charge graded fees not by the rig, but rather by the trail/section used. Otehrwise it becomes very difficult to define just what a $20 usage rig is - tire size? Lockers? etc. Plus then it's easier for people to understand that the fee difference is related to different maintanance costs, re-grading really rutted trails and moving rock gardens etc.
This way you can argue you are paying for teh amount of usage/abusage etc. Stockers won't be there all day/night but the Big Boys will.
 
Stockers won't be ripping the hell out of the trails nearly as much as something with tires taller than kids, either. Yeah, charge by trail, not vehicle. That'll work.

EDIT: And hey, if someone's brave and/or dumb enough to try to take a stock jeep with 31's up something that was designed specifically FOR Crawlers... let him. Then let him also pay the $45 recovery fee for getting stuck where he had no business going in the first place. If he's broken in addition to stuck, he can figure out how to get home on his own. If he leaves the truck, guess what?

The other side of that coin is, don't even LET someone with a crawler go on the ones meant for stockers. That might be where JUST something like "maximum tire size permitted" would work, along with "MINIMUM tire size required".

Kind of like the signs in front of amusement park rides, "You Must Be This Tall To Ride".
 
Trebissky said:
Stockers won't be ripping the hell out of the trails nearly as much as something with tires taller than kids, either. Yeah, charge by trail, not vehicle. That'll work.

EDIT: And hey, if someone's brave and/or dumb enough to try to take a stock jeep with 31's up something that was designed specifically FOR Crawlers... let him. Then let him also pay the $45 recovery fee for getting stuck where he had no business going in the first place. If he's broken in addition to stuck, he can figure out how to get home on his own. If he leaves the truck, guess what?

The other side of that coin is, don't even LET someone with a crawler go on the ones meant for stockers. That might be where JUST something like "maximum tire size permitted" would work, along with "MINIMUM tire size required".

Kind of like the signs in front of amusement park rides, "You Must Be This Tall To Ride".
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Wrong, I've seen stockers tear up way more trail then built up folks. Because they are stock, ther generally have to create much more wheel spin to make it up the trails, where a bigger rig, bigger tires, locked axles, just crawl up.
 
Point taken. On the other hand, if you only need to take a grader or dozer up the trail for one pass to smooth it back out enough to be passable, that's gotta be lots cheaper and easier than trying to re-stack 12-ton boulders on top of each other and suchlike.
 
Rob said:
Wrong, I've seen stockers tear up way more trail then built up folks. Because they are stock, ther generally have to create much more wheel spin to make it up the trails, where a bigger rig, bigger tires, locked axles, just crawl up.
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Yup I agree.. my XJ can walk almost everything I try .. low tire pressure, lockers, slow driving.. no need to floor it like a stocker does just to make it over a 12" rock
 
Regardless, I am in. What about something between the Triad and Triangle? There are a lot of properties just north of these areas with Large acres and rolling hills.
As for the rate, people are comparing it to Tellico, well, it would cost over $100 in fuel for most people to tow their rigs there from this area. If it is here in the piedmont of NC you will not have to spend all of that money on fuel and it gives a place other than URE. Also, by investing in more money per rig (within reason) your are going to build more and better trails and obsticles. I have been a part of some race parks that developed in michigan and we ran into similar issues, in the end we all agreed that a more local park that costs a few dollars more was better due to the short drive time and kept better maintenance
I have helped to start organizations such as this and would be more than interested to get together with a group and put together a business plan.
Also, I am sure that multiple people on here have equipment that would help for the cost of fuel. It does not take much work if you have multiple pieces of machinery tearing up some property.....trust me! Just my 2 cents
 
OK

Everyone stop talking and do something about it so we can all pitch in to help out and build a bada$$ place for you all to wheel and for those of us without rigs we can watch you nutcases. :lol: :D Just Buy a Large size good terrain chunk of land near the Raleigh Durham Chapel Hill Burlington and Garner area and lets get STARTED. WORK!!!!!!!!

There are so many people that have access to heavy equipment and rocks and big cement pipes and all kinds of stuff like railroad ties and things. We can put in FREE man hours to help build this AMAZING 4x4 park and those guys will pay the $20 a day fee I know and then you can charge $10 for a camping spot or $5 just to park a tow rig and trailer for the day. You will make your money back and if its cool enough people will come from all over the USA. Some people I know from NC have been to MOAB, UTAH to go to the mecca of 4 wheeling places and its a 2,556 mile trip 1 way. THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!
 
Yeah, and playboy bunnies can bring everyone lunch on silver serving trays while fairies fly down and repair everyones rig.

I have an idea, why don't you just shut the f**k up ?
 
Diane said:
Yeah, and playboy bunnies can bring everyone lunch on silver serving trays while fairies fly down and repair everyones rig.
I have an idea, why don't you just shut the f**k up ?
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bravo
 
N.W.I.H. Park

:) I would like to know the following...:shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking:

1. Where will the 400k come from for the property?
2. Who will own it? Asuming it is a Non-Profit, it will have to have officers. The higher ranking officers will have to quit there jobs and take over full time.
3. Who would be willing to quit there jobs to take over a new unproven Non-Profit?

STARTING HERE I JUST KIND OF TYPE WHAT I THOUGHT< NO CALCULATER OR EDITING (EXCEPT THIS OF COURSE)

There is so much risk with maintaining a company like that.

Just rough numbers look at what would be needed.


$400,00 for the total cost of property. Over 30 year loan
equals about $14,000 a year,
salaries for 4 people $250,000 per year for all four.
supplies $10,000
A building to work out of $100,000

SO total you are looking at about $800,000. Plus 4 guys need to quit what there doing to do this.

Now talk about what kind of traffic you woudl need to maintain this. I do a lot of number is my head quicker but on paper it takes longer

First you will need cash in hand to get the loan. 10% should do it.
$40,000 LOAN
$20,000 first month of salaries asumming labor will be free to build.
$ 5,000 For starter supplies
$ 10,000 for rental equiptment, (even is someone has an uncle with a cousin that knows someone that had a backhoe is 1998, you still got to pay to transport, fuel, and pay a trained operator to use it.)

Basicly I dont see how this would work, at all!

Unless one you you guys have a grandmother on her last leg and has a cool million buried in the back yard I dont see where all this money is coming from.

The only reason why places like URE and Tellico work is because they are funded. Most Private parks like this would be are donated by the land owner with is footing the bill. To assume a group of guys can just go out and purchase land for the soul use of wheelin is unrealistic

But I would like to know how much this place would bring in assuming realistic number of visters each day/month/year.

So assuming this place would get the same amount of visitors each month (which it wont) we will say 200 paying visitors each month, That is about 6 per day everyday, there will be more somedays and NONE most (I am going to high ball everything to not seam bias.) Each person pays $15.00 per visit plus another 15 in fees and such you are looking about $30x200peoplex12months= $72,000
Remember these numbers are all rough, in business there is so much more you will have to pay for....
Lawyers
Signs
advertisment
vehicles for maintaince
property taxes
etc etc etc

Oh yeah, that 200 people per month thing would most likely be the same ones over and over I would say maybe 20% would be "day passers" and 80% annual. They would probably not pay more than 200-400 a year cuting the profit in half more/less.
 
jeepercreature said:
...To assume a group of guys can just go out and purchase land for the soul use of wheelin is unrealistic...
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unrealistic, yeah... but its been done:

Area BFE
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251033&highlight=Area+BFE

also there's an article in the latest CRAWL mag about it..


and this is awesome, thank you:
Diane said:
Yeah, and playboy bunnies can bring everyone lunch on silver serving trays while fairies fly down and repair everyones rig.
I have an idea, why don't you just shut the f**k up ?
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Oh Yeah, I agree it could happen but this scenario is not going to happen. Just my opinion:)

I think the reason it will not work is because of the fact you want it to be a hour for the triangle. :shaking:
 
i too ran some basic #s and your right it would be very hard to make it work, as a non-profit or even a for profit right off the bat. the thing that kills it is the 'salaries' of the people working..

The idea about a group of people wanting to fork over for a park would probably work pretty easy. You'd be saving a ton of money on interest and loans. Lets use 100 members to keep it simple.. Draw up some docs saying no more/no less. Those "memberships" can be be bought/sold. Similer to a hunt club. The members could have say a private camping area. Special privledges, "keys to the gate". Possible construction of garages, for safe storage of rigs. (im not talking a shanty town but a consistant cookie cutter type thing) Of course there would be rules and all that crap spelling out every little detail.. But the main thing is you'd avoid the masive... "salary" of full time people until such time that was wanted/needed.



THEN those people can all decided the who/what/where/when/why/how the 'park' is operated... Or even if they want it to be a public park, or miely an exclusive by invite only.. For example hosting other clubs.
 
yager said:
i too ran some basic #s and your right it would be very hard to make it work, as a non-profit or even a for profit right off the bat. the thing that kills it is the 'salaries' of the people working..
The idea about a group of people wanting to fork over for a park would probably work pretty easy. You'd be saving a ton of money on interest and loans. Lets use 100 members to keep it simple.. Draw up some docs saying no more/no less. Those "memberships" can be be bought/sold. Similer to a hunt club. The members could have say a private camping area. Special privledges, "keys to the gate". Possible construction of garages, for safe storage of rigs. (im not talking a shanty town but a consistant cookie cutter type thing) Of course there would be rules and all that crap spelling out every little detail.. But the main thing is you'd avoid the masive... "salary" of full time people until such time that was wanted/needed.
THEN those people can all decided the who/what/where/when/why/how the 'park' is operated... Or even if they want it to be a public park, or miely an exclusive by invite only.. For example hosting other clubs.
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I have been thinking a lot about my park and I will not be a Non-Profit at the beginning that is for sure now. I will be doing a membership basis but it will be the weekends only that members are the only ones allowed. I will not have cabins or anything like that because the lakes and rivers down the road form where I am already have like 200 small like 10x10 single cabins for overnighters. It is pretty cool. I will try to get some pictures of the land and area to give you guys and idea. The catchall with mine is the property is already mine. The buying of the extra acres is the hard part. BUT, the other easy thing for me is the fact that my land will not need any work at first. It is perfect from rockcrawling already, Nothing but steep climbs and rivers. I am getting an ariel shot taking by a satilite company that does that for a better veiw.
 
Soooo.... it sounds like the best way to pull thsi off....
is to find out who the oldest codger in the state is w/ the most land in one spot... work up a good "new" Will for him... let the imagination fill in the blanks on the rest...
 
RatLabGuy said:
Soooo.... it sounds like the best way to pull thsi off....
is to find out who the oldest codger in the state is w/ the most land in one spot... work up a good "new" Will for him... let the imagination fill in the blanks on the rest...
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Yeah!:shaking: :shaking: You do it and we will wheel :driver: on your behalf when your in the Prison:D :D :D

Hell we will even name the park after you RAT PARK
 
RatLabGuy said:
find out who the oldest codger in the state is w/ the most land in one spot... work up a good "new" Will for him... .
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I'm sure we can get Anna Nichole to work for us pretty cheap, she has a proven track record in this area
 
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