AMC T5 vs T176

willness33

willness33

Here for the memes
Joined
May 3, 2005
Location
Alexis,NC
Basically a noob question but do the t5 and t176 have the same front bolt pattern? If I were to swap my current t5 for a 176 in my CJ7 can I use the same bellhousing? Novak's site doesn't give a lot of info regarding this on the t5. TIA
 
Thx. Google searching some more after I posted led me to mostly JF threads. Consensus seems to be maybe my bell will work and maybe not lol. I'll still take anyone's input if they've done a similar swap. I'll check my bell for the extra holes and bosses when I do the clutch in a few weeks. I just acquired this CJ and want it to be a "reliable" DD and the t5 is anything but reliable from what I read especially with close to 200k on the clock.
 
There is a lot more to that conversation, imho, regarding reliability.
You are going from a 5 speed down to a 4 speed and losing overdrive. Meaning you will be spinning the motor more rpms, which in theory will have an impact there in regards to reliability.
The T5 also has a lower (deeper) first than the 176 meaning you will be using more engine on every take off.

Im not suggesting T5s are bulletproof, they arent. But the 176 isnt either. They are prone (IME) to front bearing issues and shifter fork wear which can be terminal. (case wear)

If you arent planning on wheeling being your primary use, Im not sure Id pull a working T5 out to put a 176 in. Actaully I AM SURE I wouldnt....
 
Ron said:
There is a lot more to that conversation, imho, regarding reliability.
You are going from a 5 speed down to a 4 speed and losing overdrive. Meaning you will be spinning the motor more rpms, which in theory will have an impact there in regards to reliability.
The T5 also has a lower (deeper) first than the 176 meaning you will be using more engine on every take off.

Im not suggesting T5s are bulletproof, they arent. But the 176 isnt either. They are prone (IME) to front bearing issues and shifter fork wear which can be terminal. (case wear)

If you arent planning on wheeling being your primary use, Im not sure Id pull a working T5 out to put a 176 in. Actaully I AM SURE I wouldnt....
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Valid points. This will NEVER get wheeled. Its way to nice for me to wheel it the way I like to. I appreciate your input. I'm not set on the swap, just looking at alternatives. I need to change the clutch first to get rid of the TO bearing noise to further assess the rest of the drivetrain.
 
I rebuilt a T5 as my first transmission build a few years ago. It really wasn't bad and damn if it didn't shift like butter when done. I agree with Ron. If it was a driver mainly, I would keep it. They aren't the strongest thing, but I think they get a bad rap from folks using gear oil in them instead of ATF. I realized 90w wouldn't work after taking one apart and seeing how the needle bearings and thrust washers would not be lubricated with heavy oil. But, if it has ever had 90w in it, I guarantee it"s toast.
 
justjeepin86 said:
I rebuilt a T5 as my first transmission build a few years ago. It really wasn't bad and damn if it didn't shift like butter when done. I agree with Ron. If it was a driver mainly, I would keep it. They aren't the strongest thing, but I think they get a bad rap from folks using gear oil in them instead of ATF. I realized 90w wouldn't work after taking one apart and seeing how the needle bearings and thrust washers would not be lubricated with heavy oil. But, if it has ever had 90w in it, I guarantee it"s toast.
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LOL the whole "what lube to use" debate will probably never end with that gearbox. I've heard gear oil, ATF, 10w40, straight 50w.... If you don't mind me asking, how many miles have you put on that trans with the ATF in it?
 
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willness33 said:
LOL the whole "what lube to use" debate will probably never end with that gearbox. I've heard gear oil, ATF, 10w40, straight 50w.... If you don't mind me asking, how many miles have you put on that trans with the ATF in it?
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Shouldn't be much debate.
Since Tremec says use this:
Pennzoil Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid
or the warranty is void on new trans...Id use that or equivalent.
 
Ron said:
Shouldn't be much debate.
Since Tremec says use this:
Pennzoil Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid
or the warranty is void on new trans...Id use that or equivalent.
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You'd think, but the internet is full of opinions. @justjeepin86 says with his experience heavy weight oil could be too thick and ATF is the ticket. Tremec states synchromesh which is about 80W. Is this a time where the manufacturer is wrong based on real life experiences? That is the debate I believe.
 
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willness33 said:
LOL the whole "what lube to use" debate will probably never end with that gearbox. I've heard gear oil, ATF, 10w40, straight 50w.... If you don't mind me asking, how many miles have you put on that trans with the ATF in it?
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Well, that's a fair question and my answer is very few. I sold it. So, maybe I'm going off the same he said she said bullshit, lol.

I know i trashed one with 80 90 w

Truthfully, ATF is what a shop put in it when I had my first CJ's rebuilt.
 
orange150 said:
If it's stock, on stock tires, with the 258, I would just keep the T5. If it's lifted w/ 33s or larger and you're still rocking the 2.73s I would start thinking about something else.
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That's my current situation, 33s with stock gearing. I've driven a lot of jeeps with less than stellar gearing and this doesn't really feel as bad as most. I haven't used 5th yet as I've only had it to 45mph due to no tag yet and the steering sucks, which I'll be fixing later this week.
 
Copy/pasted from American Powertrain to further muddy the waters....Use only GM Synchromesh (part# 12345349), Pennzoil Synchromesh or Mobil1 ATF.
 
willness33 said:
Copy/pasted from American Powertrain to further muddy the waters....Use only GM Synchromesh (part# 12345349), Pennzoil Synchromesh or Mobil1 ATF.
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That's where my TKO600 came from.
And Im running the penzoil synchromesh...I will say this. You can abuse and shear it of you want...you can feel when its time to change....at least I can..
 
Ron said:
That's where my TKO600 came from.
And Im running the penzoil synchromesh...I will say this. You can abuse and shear it of you want...you can feel when its time to change....at least I can..
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I've run synchromesh in about every manual box I've ever owned, even the ones that it doesn't state it as the fluid of choice, for example, the NV4500 in my truck. GM doesn't (or didn't) list it as acceptable but after 8 years it still works.
 
I guess I'm going to just do a fluid change and hope for the best while I track down a cheap AX15 or NV3550. I know that's going to be the best scenario. I regret selling my spare ax15 years ago for 200 bucks.
 
Still running the T5 in my cj...
IMG_20201004_183209045.jpg


We'll technically it hasn't run since I pulled the wide tracks out a couple months ago, but I'm going to wheel the mess out of it with these 42's. My 258 has the mopar mpefi kit on it, which I think adds a little power. Regardless I've been wheeling and driving this thing on 33's for years. The trans still shifts tight and smooth. Pretty sure I'll be disappointed with the injected 258 soon and will swap in bigger power with an appropriate trans. But stock power and 33's I've had zero issues in 120k miles on that T5.
 
I work at a trans shop back in the early 2000's that only worked on man transmissions.The ZF's,NV 4500's and Madza M5OD's were his bread and butter and alot of what we saw was because of running 90W in em.They are so close tolerences that it takes a while for 90W to break down thin enuf to properly lube the trans.Esp in cold weather.
 
Clubbs said:
Still running the T5 in my cj...
View attachment 331088

We'll technically it hasn't run since I pulled the wide tracks out a couple months ago, but I'm going to wheel the mess out of it with these 42's. My 258 has the mopar mpefi kit on it, which I think adds a little power. Regardless I've been wheeling and driving this thing on 33's for years. The trans still shifts tight and smooth. Pretty sure I'll be disappointed with the injected 258 soon and will swap in bigger power with an appropriate trans. But stock power and 33's I've had zero issues in 120k miles on that T5.
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Cool. Ok so it may be like everything on the web. You only hear the bad. Nobody logs on to bitch about their t5 that hasn't failed.
 
1-tonmudder said:
I work at a trans shop back in the early 2000's that only worked on man transmissions.The ZF's,NV 4500's and Madza M5OD's were his bread and butter and alot of what we saw was because of running 90W in em.They are so close tolerences that it takes a while for 90W to break down thin enuf to properly lube the trans.Esp in cold weather.
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So synchromesh or the mobile 1 atf? Both are thinner than 90wt.
 
yeah or straight dextron.He recommended his "special blend" of lubricants which he sold seperately.Its was basically a mix of dollar store atf and 30w.IIRC the 4500's use to have a tag on em that said "Syntorque only".Personally I wouldnt run 90W in any thing but an old four speed trans or a cast iron t case.ATF (at least) in everything else.
 
Well, It's rebuild time. It's getting noisy as hell and leaks synchromesh like its getting paid to. It sounds bad enough not that I don't want to risk even driving it and grenading the entire thing. Tips or pointers from anyone is mucho appreciated.
 
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