Anyone have propane heat/hot water?

Macdaddy4738

Macdaddy4738

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
New to this, and I am completely floored with how ridiculously expensive this is.

I feel something is bad wrong here, gas leak or something. Second bill from the gas company says I used 118 gallons in 30 days. Does that seem right to you? I am a single guy with just a dog and myself living here. Only gas powered stuff is the hot water and the heat. I keep the heat around 68.

118 gallons seems CRAZY to me, thats almost 4 gallons A DAY, and I work 8-5.....
 
I have have always hard that turning the heat off uses more gas or electricity because it has to run longer when you turn it on to get back to the right temperature
 
alot depends on size and how it's insulated and the windows which we don't know.
It takes more to heat a house up than to keep it a constant temp.

other guy posted while typing mine.
 
Hm, okay, I'll leave it at 68 full time then.

The house was built in 1940, and I suspect that the windows are the originals (they have the ropes with pulley and counterweights on either side...)

Honestly though, I don't think the windows are that drafty.
 
Macdaddy4738 said:
Hm, okay, I'll leave it at 68 full time then.

The house was built in 1940, and I suspect that the windows are the originals (they have the ropes with pulley and counterweights on either side...)

Honestly though, I don't think the windows are that drafty.
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:eek: you must look for cheap rent when your looking. It's all a trade off instead of $400 rent and $200 energy bills try to find you a $500 rental thats been updated and pay $100 energy bills.
 
lockedup5 said:
:eek: you must look for cheap rent when your looking. It's all a trade off instead of $400 rent and $200 energy bills try to find you a $500 rental thats been updated and pay $100 energy bills.
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Had no choice, it was here or nothing pretty much. Thing is, there is no way the windows can be the cause of it, because the heat barely runs during the day. It turns on to heat the house maybe 3 times a day.
 
Macdaddy4738 said:
Im thinking the leak is at the propane meter. When I went to check it today I could smell it.
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that should be easy to test - turn off all your propane appliances and see if the meter is still spinning...
 
My bill stayed within reason each month. One month I had a really high bill. Called them up and asked if I had read the meter wrong. Also asked if they could come re-read the meter. She replied that they couldn't re-check the meter unless I smelled gas. If that's all it takes, "yes I smell gas." They re checked it and I didn't have a gas bill for the next several months. I had already paid the high bill.

Sometimes, it just gets read incorrectly.
 
Did you start with a full tank or was the last visit a "top off" call from the level left by the previous tenants, prior to your new account?

I've seen the same thing happen with kero/#2 on new accounts...

Or maybe it's one of those "average use" things where they based on the previous tenants usage and send you a dummy bill to be squared away at the end of each year?
 
OK I have to ask, is your windows leaking in cold air? Is the attic well insulated? These are things we have heard for years but it makes a HUGE increase in the cost of heating bills. I used to live in a old house with 9ft ceilings and froze the first winter. I bought two ceiling fans and run them 24-7 and made a huge savings. Something is causing the heating bill to skyrocket. I have always heard if you can slide a dollar bill under the outside door....you might as well just leave it out there cause it's gonna go out anyways.
 
I would go to Lowes and spend $100 and save several hundreds.
 
Caver Dave said:
Did you start with a full tank or was the last visit a "top off" call from the level left by the previous tenants, prior to your new account?

I've seen the same thing happen with kero/#2 on new accounts...

Or maybe it's one of those "average use" things where they based on the previous tenants usage and send you a dummy bill to be squared away at the end of each year?
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This.
 
jrmiller said:
I have have always hard that turning the heat off uses more gas or electricity because it has to run longer when you turn it on to get back to the right temperature
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Not so much with the heat. It's typically more efficient to leave A/C at the same temperature just because of the dehumidification energy required.

It depends on the house and the HVAC system to some extent. But you're really just working the difference between the temperature inside and the temperature outside. If it's going to be a nice day, it's cold outside and warm inside in the morning. The heat will run to keep it warm inside while you're not there. Then by afternoon, it's warm outside and warm inside. The heat might not run at all in the afternoon, just because you're picking up some solar gain to offset any air leakage. Where if you turn back the temperature when you're not home, the difference between the inside temperature and the outside temperature is less, so the heat loss isn't as quick. Then you'll still pick up the solar gain in the afternoon. The heat might have to run for 30 mins or so before you get home to get it back up to your "comfort" set point, but it would be less time overall than if it ran off and on all day long.

Similarly, if you have a heat pump, the heat pump will be more efficient in the afternoon (when it's warmer out) than it would be in the chilly morning air. That doesn't matter as much with a straight furnace, but it's worth considering.
 
some utility companies send you a bill based on average use so they don't have to come and check your meeter every month. Then, the month they actually check, your bill may be more or less depending on what they previously billed and actuals. This may be the case here...?
 
They billed me for what was left in the tank when I moved in (140 gallons). When they filled it up on the 6th of this month, they said I burned 118 gallons in just those 30 days. They filled it up with 178 gallons to get me to an even 200 (40% tank capacity).

They do not bill on average use, just what they put in (at 2.26/gal, which I think is actually quite reasonable).

Gas Company just left. Couldn't detect any leaks, and the hot water heater is set at the right temp (not too high, etc). The gas tech. agreed turning it down when I am gone is not really the best way to do it. He also said he doesn't think the windows would affect it that much.

The attic is insulated, and so are the walls.

Now I will say, and I completely forgot this...for the first 2 weeks or so when I moved in I had the thermostat at 71-73. I wonder if THAT was the cause for the huge bump. I can say the heat turned on far more than it does now (on the order of 6-7 times while I was home...from 5:15 till I go to sleep about 11.) Now it turns on around 3 times.
 
I had propane 2 houses ago and while it was nice and warm, it was expensive! It was back when propane was really high and we had gas bills over $300/month! I eventually just spent $300 on 6 electric room heaters and saved a ton of $$$. It wasn't as efficient but worked for how often I was home and the added electric costs were much less than the cost of gas.
 
It is completely reasonable that you used 118 gallons in a 30 day period. There are roughly 96,000 btu in 1 gallon of propane. If you have a 90,000 btu furnace, that is probably operating at 70% efficiency, you are burning almost 1.5 gallons per hour with the furnace alone. So it would only have to run a little over 2.5 hrs per day to use your 118 gallons. It only has to cycle on every hour and run for 10-15 minutes to equal your consumption. Obviously, I estimated some of those figures, but not hard to see that you don't have unreasonable usage.
 
tw89yj said:
It is completely reasonable that you used 118 gallons in a 30 day period. There are roughly 96,000 btu in 1 gallon of propane. If you have a 90,000 btu furnace, that is probably operating at 70% efficiency, you are burning almost 1.5 gallons per hour with the furnace alone. So it would only have to run a little over 2.5 hrs per day to use your 118 gallons. It only has to cycle on every hour and run for 10-15 minutes to equal your consumption. Obviously, I estimated some of those figures, but not hard to see that you don't have unreasonable usage.
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Maybe I'm way off, but isn't running >10% of the total time during the day an awful lot? Especially when it isn't THAT cold. Suggests a lot must be getting lost.
We have an old Ranch from 60s, nothing special or extra re: insulation (attic has almost nothing). its NG, but it only blows a few minutes at a time.

As an aside... the plastic window coverings you put up on the inside can make a big difference. They're cheesy but the good ones are completely transparent, a good inexpensive option for a rental.
 
tw89yj said:
It is completely reasonable that you used 118 gallons in a 30 day period. There are roughly 96,000 btu in 1 gallon of propane. If you have a 90,000 btu furnace, that is probably operating at 70% efficiency, you are burning almost 1.5 gallons per hour with the furnace alone. So it would only have to run a little over 2.5 hrs per day to use your 118 gallons. It only has to cycle on every hour and run for 10-15 minutes to equal your consumption. Obviously, I estimated some of those figures, but not hard to see that you don't have unreasonable usage.
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Damn. I didn't know propane was so expensive/BTU. Stolen from the internet:

Form of Energy Units to obtain one million BTU Substitute your present cost ** Cost per Million BTU

Natural Gas 10 Therms x $0.94 (Heat Only Rate) $9.40

Natural Gas 10 Therms x $0.84 (Year Round Rate) $8.40

Kerosene 7.4 Gals x $3.75 $27.75

Propane Gas (LP) 11 Gals x $2.50 $25.50

Electricity 293 KWH x $0.085 $24.91
 
RatLabGuy said:
Maybe I'm way off, but isn't running >10% of the total time during the day an awful lot? Especially when it isn't THAT cold. Suggests a lot must be getting lost.
We have an old Ranch from 60s, nothing special or extra re: insulation (attic has almost nothing). its NG, but it only blows a few minutes at a time.

As an aside... the plastic window coverings you put up on the inside can make a big difference. They're cheesy but the good ones are completely transparent, a good inexpensive option for a rental.
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Huge difference between a house built in the 60s and a house built in the 40s in terms of insulation.

I agree that running >10% of the day seems high, but there are way too many variables to determine if that is unreasonable for this house.

Most gas furnaces are only operating at 80-85% efficiency when new also. Some of the newer units should be in the low 90s, but that is measured brand new. As the unit ages, efficiency certainly decreases. The unit in question could reasonably be operating at only 50% efficiency.

And he already stated it cycles on approx every 2 hours during the evening, it could very easily be cycling more at night and less during the day.

I would recommend a programmable thermostat if you don't have one already.
 
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