Axle Build Suggestions

I would look at a tacoma elocker rear axle. A good, selectable locker that's the same bolt pattern and width as a waggy front. I'm not real confident in a toy front, but I've seen the rears hold up to alot...
 
Lots of good options for Dana 44's, and a lot of good information from some very knowledgeable folks above. However, when your setting up your budget on these axle. Please look into a good set of shafts for what I'm assuming would be an early waggy 44. I don't know if you have them already or but a lot of the early waggoneer rear axles were offset to the passenger side and getting a chromoly shaft for them is difficult. If you do wind up with a detroit in the back and a 40 year old factory shaft, it will break and it will damage the detroit. The fronts are a little better, there's a bunch of off the shelf kits for them. But again, please don't spend $1000 on a selectable front locker with factory shaft, with ujoints from who knows when. Get a good strong axle and pick out a good locker and do it once. I very rarely talk to someone who says they regret putting a good selectable locker in a trail rig, but a lot of guys who settle for what they can afford at the time will call back within a year and say "man I should have just built it like I wanted to the first time, now I'm doing it twice."
 
I do not have the axles yet. My plan is to find a matching set of wagoneer D44s from 74-79. This gets me the narrow option(60" WMS), strong axles(for a Willys). I know the Quadratrac equipped Wagoneers were offset rears, but the regularly equipped wagoneers are not. I am still kicking around the idea for a selectable front. My plan is to go through each axle with new joints etc. Depending on the condition of the shafts, I might upgrade. I have not looked into the Toyota options for rears although the information presented here in this thread is valuable and gives me more to think about. The Willys will see a max of 35" tires(at least for the foreseeable future) so IMO the D44s F/R are a good fit for strength vs weight savings.

Let me pose this question for all. If YOU were building a Willys with my engine/trans/xfer case, what would be your preferred choice of axles/gearing/lockers for a max 35" tire.

Thanks yall,

Zack
 
I think you could get the most bang for your buck with toyota axles. They will most likely already have 4.10 gears, which should be ok for 35's with the sm420 (although 4.56 would be better). For lockers I would do one of two things, either go cheap and run Spartan lockers f&r, or go big and run selectable f&r. Not much middle ground. Detroits are somewhat stronger than lunchbox lockers, but performance and driving characteristics is about the same. A toyota rear axle shaft should be good with 35's, for the front you will need to get some old-school longfields or rcv's. And, can be converted to high steer without having to machine the knuckle (not sure if you would need that or not).
 
I'd run a 9"/44. If I understand correctly (someone call me out if not) you can buy revers cut gears and flip the 3rd on the 9" and have a high pinion. You can run a Chevy 44 for the passenger drop and run Ford outers to match the rear.

OR* run an 8.8 rear with custom shafts and a waggy 44. Wish I'd done this.


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77GreenMachine said:
I'd run a 9"/44. If I understand correctly (someone call me out if not) you can buy revers cut gears and flip the 3rd on the 9" and have a high pinion. You can run a Chevy 44 for the passenger drop and run Ford outers to match the rear.

OR* run an 8.8 rear with custom shafts and a waggy 44. Wish I'd done this.


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hi-pinion 3rds arent that easy. It takes a special 3rd designed to be HP.
 
strange1 said:
I think you could get the most bang for your buck with toyota axles. They will most likely already have 4.10 gears, which should be ok for 35's with the sm420 (although 4.56 would be better). For lockers I would do one of two things, either go cheap and run Spartan lockers f&r, or go big and run selectable f&r. Not much middle ground. Detroits are somewhat stronger than lunchbox lockers, but performance and driving characteristics is about the same. A toyota rear axle shaft should be good with 35's, for the front you will need to get some old-school longfields or rcv's. And, can be converted to high steer without having to machine the knuckle (not sure if you would need that or not).
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I would definately consider this. You can also find elock 3rds for a decent price. If worried about the gears, you could goto FJ axles and get a large gear. Can also goto FJ80 stuff and get FF rear with larger gears and bigger shafts up front. Steering isnt cheap or easy though.
 
My reasoning for running the wagoneer D44s are the length. Last I looked, I thought the 9" came in 65 or 68" options. I am not really interested in having that width. Remember that the stock axles(D25 and D41) were only 51" from WMS to WMS. Now I have ran an 8.8 in the back of my old YJ that worked very well although the 8.8 is a C-Clip axle.

The Toyota axles are interesting but I do not know enough about them to have an opinion one way or the other. Guess I need to do some more reading.

Lets say I do get the wagoneer D44s. Lets also assume that it is the NON Quadratrac version(centered rear). What are common weak links in these axles aside from U-joints etc failing. I am contemplating putting better shafts in both but am wondering what other parts would fail.

These suggestions are awesome. Really makes me pause and give more thought to the build.

Thanks yall.
 
A complete rebuild, including new ball-joints should be all the 44's would need. Depending on how you need to setup your steering. Along with chromo shafts front/rear and locker of choice.
 
Why haven't you considered a dana 30/8.8 combo if you plan on stay on 33s/35s with mild wheeling it could easily be the cheapest route. I've got 30/8.8 combo on 35s locked front and rear 30s got chromos and I wheel it pretty hard and have yet to have a major failure.... Not saying it wont happen but I see it as a viable option

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I figured that I have the time/money to build it right the first time, so might as well put some money in the correct places. Will a 30/8.8 work? Yes it will, I had that same combo in my YJ(although they weren't locked). I tend to overbuild all of my projects so D44s were the natural first choice for me. And in the future, I can go bigger if I wanted without having to change much.
 
Loganwayne said:
Why haven't you considered a dana 30/8.8 combo if you plan on stay on 33s/35s with mild wheeling it could easily be the cheapest route. I've got 30/8.8 combo on 35s locked front and rear 30s got chromos and I wheel it pretty hard and have yet to have a major failure.... Not saying it wont happen but I see it as a viable option

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This is also an option. I ran the dog mess out of my 8.8/30 before my swap. Had 36s on for a while, locked f/r.

As mentioned the 44 usually shares the same joint as a 30. I know this cause when I swapped mine I held the shafts up and even used a micrometer. They were exactly the same. Not sure why the 44 was stronger, maybe the way the hubs are different and keep things centered.

The 8.8 is a great axle. Even with C clips.


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YJJPWrangler said:
I figured that I have the time/money to build it right the first time, so might as well put some money in the correct places. Will a 30/8.8 work? Yes it will, I had that same combo in my YJ(although they weren't locked). I tend to overbuild all of my projects so D44s were the natural first choice for me. And in the future, I can go bigger if I wanted without having to change much.
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Meh good enough for me I don't plan on going bigger than 35. Have you seen the 44 on here for sale?

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I would consider Toyota axles. 56.5" WMS front.
 
Toyota's will be a good fit width-wise, tons of parts, should hold up fine with the normal upgrades to 35's. Common factory 3rds are 4.10, 4.56, 4.88, so you'd probably save money on re-gearing by keeping an eye out or searching the scrap yards. If you were ok with 4.10's, you could get factory elocker 3rds and not have to worry about much other than going through and making sure everything functions. Yota's will be lighter than dana 44's.

Dana 44's can be built pretty solid. I have a waggy front and Isuzu rodeo rear (a "normal" d44, not the thick gear from the later models - but does have discs factory). Heavier than the yota's, less likely to bend though. Going to have to buy gears at least for the front - Isuzu rear 44's will be 4.10 or 4.30 factory, but waggies are all going to be taller 3.xx gears. If you wanted chromo rear shafts, you'd have to get them custom cut for the 'zu d44 rear, vs other Jeep sourced units you can find off the shelf. I've had good luck so far with the stock shafts and a Detroit, but I'm only out wheeling once every few months. I should probably find some spares. Not sure if chromos would really be worth the expense to be honest. The Detroit is pretty predictable out back, but occasionally it will bang around back there unexpectedly, or be a pain in the ass turning right from a stop on an uphill. I haven't driven it in snow, but if I had to, I'd keep it slow and try to drive very mindfully, so as to not get on the gas in a turn, and ease into the throttle lightly otherwise.

I've got an OX locker in the front. It just needs to be engaged/disengaged regularly to keep from sticking if you go with the cable actuator on it's own.

I'd almost rather have the OX in the back and the Detroit up front for better street-ability, but that moves the trade off to the trail.

Also I'd probably not go much deeper than 4.88's or you'll be turning pretty high RPM's on the road, which may or may not be a big deal if you're keeping it under 60mph - with 4.88's you'd be turning 2800 rpm at 60 with 35's.
 
How are you liking the OX locker up front? Would it be better to go ahead and step up to an ARB for the price difference?
 
^ all above opinions are from folks that have rigs that are a bit bigger than our flattys. there is NO WAY I would put a spool or lunch box in the rear of one of these little guys. in the woods, ok no issue, but on the road, with that much power, on a wet road, you will spin it completely around. NO WAY, dude. do it for the front, and put a selectable in the rear. I was spinning my CJ7 around with my spool on hard turns and a healthy motor 'had' to have it removed as I got so many warning tickets. I can spin my 3A around with my open rear with a 350v8. it sucks when you're not planning for it.
 
Chuckman said:
^ all above opinions are from folks that have rigs that are a bit bigger than our flattys. there is NO WAY I would put a spool or lunch box in the rear of one of these little guys. in the woods, ok no issue, but on the road, with that much power, on a wet road, you will spin it completely around. NO WAY, dude. do it for the front, and put a selectable in the rear. I was spinning my CJ7 around with my spool on hard turns and a healthy motor 'had' to have it removed as I got so many warning tickets. I can spin my 3A around with my open rear with a 350v8. it sucks when you're not planning for it.
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Thanks @Chuckman, looking into selectables now.

My poor wallet...
 
Good point by Chuckman - I've got barely enough power to accelerate downhill, ~105-110" WB, and easily weigh north of 4k lb. Different animal for sure.

YJJPWrangler said:
How are you liking the OX locker up front? Would it be better to go ahead and step up to an ARB for the price difference?
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I don't think you can go wrong with an ARB if it's set up correctly. I like the OX, and the fact that I don't have to worry about a compressor or lines, although honestly it would not be a big issue. I'd be happy with either. The biggest PITA with the OX I've had is getting the diff cover on without smearing all my RTV off. The shift fork is built into the cover, and I was doing this laying under the rig, but hopefully it's not something that needs to be done often.
 
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