beginner welder

Also, check the breaker and wire on your 220v source. A dryer receptacle won't cut it for many 220v welders. You should really put them on a 50A circuit.
 
I have been building race cars since 1978. Im not a welding "expert", but from my personal experiences, Ill add to the discussion...

DO NOT BUY A 110 welder. Most likely you wont be happy. Most off road stuff is .120 plus. 110 welders do not have the capacitors to give you a good hot start arc, and they just don't offer enough juice to sustain a good steady arc on .120 and up. For most people, a good small 220 welder such as a Miller 180 or equiv. will do all you need. They wont weld bridges, but they will do anything we do here. STAY AWAY from bargain welders. Im sure there are some who say they do fine with them. Maybe. But I have never seen welding shop with anything but, Miller, Hobart, Lincoln, ESAB...even old Aircos! Never a "Century". Never a "Chicago Electric"

Also. As someone mentioned, you CAN use a stick welder to build. I built many race cars with Stick welders until I got introduced to MIG and bought my own. Stick welders are very inexpensive (Miller Thunderbolt 225 is a very good one!). They are very versatile. (You can weld outdoors with them!) And a good stick welder can lay as nice a bead as any MIG welder can. (And I would use a stick welder before I would use a 110 MIG!)

Gas vs flux core. Flux core is better outside where breezes can disturb the gas shield. Gas shield is better, cleaner welding. (Think about this. The welding industry uses what is best. They use gas!) Do not hesitate to use a flux core to learn if that works out cheaper for you. But you will want gas as you learn.

No one can "teach" you to weld. No school. No individual. BUT... Either can teach you techniques and basic rules. Cleanliness, fit-up and weld characteristics...etc. Only way you will "learn" to weld is by doing it over and over. Deciding to buy a welder to weld once every few of months most likely will yield a lot of grief and frustration. Better to just get a buddy to do it or get a shop to do it. Good welding, like most things, requires repetitiveness for most of us. I know this because, for 5 years before I left NASCAR racing, I was a body hanger. (I built the sheet metal bodies for the Truck series full time). That meant the only "welding" I did daily was "tack" welding of sheet metal panels. Virtually no running weld "beads". So when I did have to weld, my beads looked shitty. Even though I had been welding, off and on since I was 16! Since I have left racing and have started welding everyday, my welding is looking pretty good!

I would advise you to seek out someone such as Chris that is willing to take the time to show you fabrication basics. Then seek out a metal shop that will donate scrap to you. And practice fit-up and weld away! Will your welds ever look like Chris' welding. Doubtful. (Many guitarists...few Joe Satriani's!) I have been around welders for 30+ years and have known only a handful of people that can lay as consistently pretty a weld bead as he can. Are his welds stronger than most other accomplished welders? No. Most others as well as mine don't look as pretty as his. But my welds have survived many 200 MPH crashes! And I would add here that there are some who "fake" a good looking weld. You can make a weld "pretty" but if it isn't penetrated, it wont hold!

Get good direction. Get a good welder. Concentrate on learning what makes for good weld penetration. Practice. If you learn and understand, you will develop your own techniques that yield good welds.

Just my .02 :)
 
Some good points catfish. I had been wondering about that. I think class time and actually using some of these would help too which ties into that advice. I'll likely shop the used market either way and in the end I think flux core has a strong chance of being my main useage because of outdoors factor.
 
Thanks too ol jeeps. I've read repeatedly to think hard about duty cycle and just how limiting it can be. At this point I'm definately set on seeing Chris's shop and checking out a class or 10 if he offers them before I spend a dime on a welder. It's obviously something that is an investment of time and money. I've had a penchant for enjoying being a generalist. I've always admired the guys that can do a little of everything around the house and shop. I doubt I'll build a race chassis but fixing the mower and other odds and ends would be nice. Interested to see where I'll end up. Offroading has been fun that way in tossing me into things past my current knowledge base. I'm sure that's a draw for many of us that aren't buying made to order rigs.
 
catfishblues said:
Also, check the breaker and wire on your 220v source. A dryer receptacle won't cut it for many 220v welders. You should really put them on a 50A circuit.
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Luckily my barn has a panel half unused and I have 100amp feed run to it. In a perfect world i'd already have a 50 amp fuse and a plug in a good location. My world isn't perfect so that would be additional cost although less work than for some.
 
If and when you shop for a welder use the duty cycle and its output to help you shop. If most people would just look at this rating alone they would not buy the cheap machines.. In a nut shell duty cycle is the percent a machine can run at a given output. Think 10 minutes as 100%. So if a machine is said to weld a 1/4 in one pass at its maximum performance but the duty cycle at that setting is 20% your looking at a turd! On average after you spot up say a bracket or even a Slider your going to want to weld for greater than 2 minutes. Even with starts and stops your going to push the machine. Now, good equipment will have a heat or duty cycle sensor that will shut the unit down to prevent damage and let the unit cool down. Cheap junk however keeps trying while the voltage or amperage drops out producing rougher welds with more splatter and poor penetration. What ever thickness you think will get you by try to reason a 20 to 30% percent increase in machine size . As for flux core it does have its place. Flux Core is hollow and requires less voltage to make molten, so smaller machines run it so more of the arc is available to melt the base material. With bigger equipment in structural applications large weldments are carried out using flux core because the flux can be taylored for very aggressive mill scale cleaning and large shielding flums. You can lay very large pure beads with the right set up, then comes submerged arc welding.

GMAW or MIG is a CV machine not CC. (CV-constant voltage, CC-constant current or Ampheres) So don't confuse a SMAW machines (stick) ratings when comparing. Wire uses voltage, stick uses amps both are inversely related. Wire machines maintains contant voltage to run right (unless its a voltage sensing feeder) and stick machines a constant amphere (current). This is why while wire welding arc gap and distance from the tip to the work piece is very critical to good technique. With a stick the arc gap is flexible to a point and is used alot to dail in penetration and weld pool build up.

I've taught welding to many folks on the job, at home, and as a part time instructor at a Community College. The education counts when you can take the whys and what fors and gain a greater understanding of the fundamentals. Yeah that sounds like giberish. Truth is, I was really decent before I got a degree, however I'm much better and I have an understanding that allows me to identify mistakes, bad habits, why machines act the way they do at certain setting and so on. A knowledge of several proceedures, fillers and uses, mechanical properties, gasses, metalurgy and other subjects don't hurt either.

Here's a case in point. A few years back everybody where I work had to get certified, I was already. I took a friend who never welded much and taught him using what I had learned. Not just teqhnique but alot of whys and hows and what to look for. He passsed almost all of his certs on the first try. A few men who have made a living for years struggled to pass. They weren't bad welders, just a few bad habbits and poor technique or set up. But they lacked the knowledge and some of the humility too learn from the situation. In any event from whomever you choose to learn demand a better explination than: "because it works for me." Everyones technique is slightly different, some flat don't work, and most will need tweaking to get the results that work for you. This is when being educated on the subject really helps. If you have any specific question shoot, a few on the forum have done so in the past. Pm's work too I don't mind. I don't know all but I want ever BS you on the subject.

As for the barn feed, pending what is already run you might have power left over to run a med sized wire unit. I had a 100 amp service in a small building with a 50 for my welder plug at one time. I had to be very carefull no to run to many 110 items at the same time. I had to cut radio and lights out at times to run my 210 miller. My 180 Syncrowave however would trip it every time doing aluminum GTAW. If you are limited on power and want the best do all any thickness down to 3/32 to an 1/8 and want to learn and spend the least money on supplies get a Miller Thunderbolt or equivalent Stick unit. No gas, no tips, no limits on thickness, can weld cast, steel, aluminum, in any weather, dirty, clean you name it. For the least effort most expensive to opperate and make purty strings of melted metal (welded or not) get a wire unit with gas. Flux core has a bit more learning curve and honestly done wrong make a bigger mess than bad stick welding that holds together.
 
Thanks Warrior. Excellent feedback and I appreciate the offers for more info. One question I have is when you want to go from floor pans to sliders can a stick welder really handle that? My understanding was stick welders really only work good on the thicker stuff. I know some floor pans are more like beer cans but that is one thing I could see me wanting to be able to do. Like a gas tank relocate or a frame through cage, etc.
 
hmmmm...stick on floor pans is done. My experience, as I recall is, it is very difficult to control stick on the thin stuff. But I used to have to do it cuz that's all we had! LOL!

BTW...I do know that Drew (Warriorwelding) is as knowlegable welder as you will find! I have turned to him to weld exotics that I wasn't comfortable trying!
 
If I was dealing with heavy equipment or on a farm stick sounds like a great option. With a unibody xj I haven't heard great things about using a stick for general purpose.
 
JeepSide said:
I was just giving advice of my exp. and u insult me. Real pro for a mod
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I have been an ASME welder for 30 years
I specialize in food grade high purity stainless steel tubing.FDA inspected stuff.
1" through unlimited AWS cert also.
What exactly are your credentials?
And the mod you insulted is a friend of mine.
I bet you don't wheel except as a troll.
My name is Paul Poplin, PM for more details if you like.
I aint hard to find.
 
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AX(J)15_tudor said:
Thanks Warrior. Excellent feedback and I appreciate the offers for more info. One question I have is when you want to go from floor pans to sliders can a stick welder really handle that? My understanding was stick welders really only work good on the thicker stuff. I know some floor pans are more like beer cans but that is one thing I could see me wanting to be able to do. Like a gas tank relocate or a frame through cage, etc.
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Takes a great deal of finess, but I like to do pans with overlapping flanges and plug welds like a factory job, then seem seal. None the less a 3/32 rod in something like a 6013 works well. It doesn't penetrate like a 6010 has softer arc and doesn't mind a bit of paint, rust, grease, or zinc oxides found in alot of car sheet metal. Not always easy but you can take a block of bronze and use as a backer and it will catch any burn through and allow the metal to cool and not fall through making a hole (I've done this with Mig too). Welding a pronounced bead isn't needed on sheet metal anyway, fusing with alittle fill is plenti strong and allows for fleability of the joint. Big or thick welds in the wrong places causes stress risers and does just as much harm as good for a structure. Good rule of thumb is a welds needs to be no thicker than (cross section) than the thinnest member being joined. I 've welded many pieces up for farmers and the like that were rotten thin and nearly rusted out. Mig doesn't like rust at all, so when the cheap man wants his rotten stuff patched, a stick will get it welded without spending a bunch of time cleaning the material! I got a friend who runs a diesel shop that his dad started 30-40 yrs ago. Every 3/4 and 1 inch pipe it the place was stick welded for his air lines. I guess they have kept really good dry air since the pipes haven't rotted. But before Mig it was either stick or oxyfuel for just about everything. Really want to start with pure grass roots heat, liquid metal, a puddle, and filler? Let me teach you to Oxyfuel gas weld!
 
lots of sheet metal and occassional welding up too 1/4 in mig, U cant' beat around a Miller 175, not sure what the most recent model is but they made a 110/220 dual input machine that was small enough to load up in a truck, and had enough omph to weld 1/4 and not get tired quickly. They also had a fairly good arc at low settings. This unit and .30 wire would be an excellent light guage sheet and tubing wizard, and the guns are very compact too. I do alot of odd stuff, equipment, and structural material so I personally own a larger machines, but if all I ever did was tube and sheet this is what I would have aquired. Axle bracketry would be more fussy and require more care with this size.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
.......... Really want to start with pure grass roots heat, liquid metal, a puddle, and filler? Let me teach you to Oxyfuel gas weld!
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This, it will prepare you for all other processes.
 
oxy/gas welding is a dying art! i wish i was better at it but I just don't use it for what I do.

A good alternative is stick welding. You can learn the basics. MIG is easy, almost too easy to learn on as most beginners don't have good form and while many of the welds look good, they are structurally poor.
Learn stick welding first and good MIG welding will fall right in place and so will TIG so long as your hand-eye coordination is good enough to handle doing 3 things at once (sometimes 4)
 
PAT Ventures said:
This, it will prepare you for all other processes.
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and you will learn great patience :)

My dad had me do a little welding test one time that I think is pretty cool. Lay piece of paper on a table in front of you. Then put a sharp #2 pencil in each hand, holding them about midway up. If you're right handed use the pencil in your right hand to draw small overlapping circles traveling to your left like lowercase cursive "e's". With your left hand do a zig zag line on top of each circle as you draw it. Dont let your hands or elbows touch the table. do it for 4-6 inches. When you can do that and end up with all equal sized circles in a straight line and a zig zag line on top of them you will be able to make a pretty tig weld.

I'd like to see some of you guys try this out and see how well you can do it. It's much harder than it sounds. I've sat for hours practicing and it's still hard as hell.

This exercise is meant for TIG welding but it will teach you excellent hand and arm control which is a solid base for any process. I think of laying a bead just like a golf swing. In order for it to be pretty/work you have a hundred things to go over in your head before you even start the bead. The more you do it the easier it will come. It's all about muscle memory.......... to make it pretty. Making it strong is another story.
 
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