Bill this guy

WARRIORWELDING

WARRIORWELDING

Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Location
Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
Morning started at 4 a.m. Went out to make a repair. Repair was on a very large pan. 8 broken manifold bolts. After assessing the bolts had over 1 inch of sinking thread I decided they should be bored out. They are only 3/8 in diameter. The owner wants me to weld a nut to them and try to back them out. The area is very difficult to assess and the success rate will be negligible. I recommended through boring the bolts and repairing with helicoils. I even demonstrated by boring out one stud. Owner decided that was not the proper repair and does not want me to attempt anything further. He was not present when I made the decision to drill out one stud. I am 33 miles round trip in 2 hours into the process.

Bill or not to Bill that is the question. Backstory is I've always went out of my way to get this guy up and going.

I would sincerely appreciate some insight thanks.
 
Bill him, fairly. I would say bill him for the "consultation". IMHO, since he didnt give the go ahead on boring the one out, then just eat that. I wouldnt think itll kill ya.

Just keep in mind, whether this is one of your most served customers, or a guy who called you up from the yellow pages, he will talk about his service.
 
CasterTroy said:
Owner have potential future work?

Good customer?

If so...I'd bury the time in future work. Of not, Bill him
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Yes and yes, just hard headed. Very good fella. Very good grader. Not a very good mechanic or minded as such. He can and has fixed alot. It just usually ends up being hammer and anvil approach instead of finesse.
 
I also told the owner I would be out early, he had other obligations and his help was arriving as I was at my decision point.
 
I forgot to add he was very disappointed in my assessment. As in "I reckon my mechanic will have to get them out" from other cues I believe that to be himself. Completely disagreed with thread repair. Which is his prerogative. I'm keeping that in mind.
 
Your time=$ I’d bill for time out there maybe cut a hour since he wasn’t on same page but still gotta get paid!
 
moldman05 said:
Good customers always want to pay you. They respect you knowledge ,skills, and time.
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Apparently I've NEVER had a good customer (Architects :rolleyes:) They always know more than us, NEVER pay us until we threaten action (even then we've been stiffed for more than $100k by multiple architects over the years) and scoff at the time we require to a project


WARRIORWELDING said:
Yes and yes, just hard headed. Very good fella. Very good grader.
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It's not Jerry is it?

Again...if he's THAT dissatisfied AND a good customer...I'd bury the cost in future. That's not the same as encouraging or rewarding such behavior, as much as it is NOT being a "lawyer" type business (I'mma bill you in 1/2hr increments for every phone conversation)

You're too good of a man to be vicious/ruthless. (To me) that carries far more weight as a business owner
 
CasterTroy said:
Apparently I've NEVER had a good customer (Architects :rolleyes:) They always know more than us, NEVER pay us until we threaten action (even then we've been stiffed for more than $100k by multiple architects over the years) and scoff at the time we require to a project

"lawyer" type business (I'mma bill you in 1/2hr increments for every phone conversation)
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And don't forget they charge per sheet for every page they copy, plus they bill the time for the copying...
 
BigClay said:
And don't forget they charge per sheet for every page they copy, plus they bill the time for the copying...
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"Oh I thought about your case while I was in the shower this AM, so here's a bill for one hour"

Meanwhile Dave's over here eating 30 hrs of labor and $1000 of material making a 4th driveshaft for some asshole with a prior vibration he never bothered to tell Dave about complaining like he was driving a rolls royce and not a clapped out leaf sprung wrangler who pisses and moans about paying $200
 
CasterTroy said:
Apparently I've NEVER had a good customer (Architects :rolleyes:) They always know more than us, NEVER pay us until we threaten action (even then we've been stiffed for more than $100k by multiple architects over the years) and scoff at the time we require to a project
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Every. Single. Time. Currently dealing with UNC school system. As if I needed another reason not to like them.
 
And just a fyi......

My previous job, when someone questioned the work we had done, the amount of charged labor doubled.

When they told me how to do what needed to be done, usually a $15-20k mistake on their part.......
 
Did he call you out? Assuming so, I see no reason why you would not bill him. Not rip him off, but at least for the service call travel/diagnosis time. The fact he disagreed with your professional opinion, after he called you out, is on him.

Now if this was an on-a-whim kind of thing where he could argue that you weren't specifically asked to come, maybe it gets murky.

On a different note - I've had a lot of good luck getting broken studs out either using a broken stud extractor (IF there is some meat left sticking out) or using a left-handed drill bit that is just smaller than the size of the main shaft not including the thread thickness. With the left-handed bit I have yet to have to heli-coil the hole, b/c either it ends up grabbing enough that the bolt/stud backs out on its own, or it is drilled out enough I can go in with a thread tapper and use that to clean out the threads and essentially remake the hole.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Did he call you out? Assuming so, I see no reason why you would not bill him. Not rip him off, but at least for the service call travel/diagnosis time. The fact he disagreed with your professional opinion, after he called you out, is on him.

Now if this was an on-a-whim kind of thing where he could argue that you weren't specifically asked to come, maybe it gets murky.

On a different note - I've had a lot of good luck getting broken studs out either using a broken stud extractor (IF there is some meat left sticking out) or using a left-handed drill bit that is just smaller than the size of the main shaft not including the thread thickness. With the left-handed bit I have yet to have to heli-coil the hole, b/c either it ends up grabbing enough that the bolt/stud backs out on its own, or it is drilled out enough I can go in with a thread tapper and use that to clean out the threads and essentially remake the hole.
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I was called out for sure. I only question billing because he specifically wanted the repair executed his way. The studs still has over an inch of thread engagement. All broken flush or recessed some. If his guy would have used heat the nuts would have come off the other end.
I through bored one hole. Left hand bit. And attempted an extractor.....no go at all. I have broke enough of those to know when to stop.
I have had great success in all kinds of uses with heli coils. Repairs and new builds in everything from cast, aluminum, and high density plastics.
I have not heard from him since. So either it got resolved or the enormous head is at a machine shop.
 
Based on the info I've read, This is how I usually handle these...high volume of work from the customer, eat the $250ish you spent in travel/hourly rate. Let him know...when, not if, you have to go back out and fix it the right way it'll cost X to undo what was done and Y to do to make it right. If he doesn't bite on that, I'd still save the billable, tell him you're not comfortable putting your stamp on a hack way of doing things and to find somebody else. I get folks all the time...'oh I want this chemical/solution in this packaging'...sorry it'll eat through the bottle or the packette is permeable so it'll seep. Or 'I want this pretty plant over here'...sorry, that plant doesn't do well in direct sunlight. Or 'here's my hodge podge of parts I bought on summit, build me an engine'...sorry, you watched powerblock tv, I'm not using sand paper on your heads and wrong pistons for those valves. Theme here is, the customer wasted my time, part of doing business...chalk it up to 'free quotes', build it in to your pricing structure. Do what you're proud of and comfortable with, and explain to the customer what will happen if you do what they ask. Put ego aside, remember 'the customer is always right', except when they're not...and you still have to make them feel like they are.
 
Screw thread inserts (aka Helicoils) are a standard design feature on gas turbines and jet engines.
 
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