Boirl Scouts

[WARRIORWELDING]

Lets take welding as an example. Hands down either sex can do it. Hands down both genders learn very differently.
When I train or teach a fella he is usually more hands on grab and go. Head down work through it push to accomplish. Most striving to get something going and learn the finer arts and settings later. This sets a precedent of accomplishment. After a firm grasp on the physical is accomplished you can add in the mental and some more detail specific information. Most guys learn straight out of mimicking technique and what they see.

Women, polar opposite. Most women are more interested in the how, why, specifics rather than the overall picture. Explaining adjustments, angles, approaches, and techniques accomplish far more than simple demonstrations. Women usually lack in technique for a few weeks because they are processing everything coming and going. Then after a short spell the motor skills kick in and holy crap!! The females are out welding most dudes. However if I just try to skip the details and say just do it this way or that..........most females become frustrated and fall behind.

Different genders learn and cope differently. Welding is just a small window. A gender neutral window at that. The age specifics of both the populations in the questioned setting; combined with very different maturity levels, points directly at the intended need for social segregation. This segregation was to develop these strong gender specific qualities. We were created to complement each other. Strengths and weaknesses. We shouldn't look for gender equality because nature divided us with a penis vagina for a reason. Can men and women take on mutual goals and or responsibilities? Yes. But don't dilute our gender specific qualities to accomplish it. Boys and Girls need specific role models and pier groups to accomplish this. Specific enough that it bothers me that organizations fail to retain gender specific leadership for both.

We have Girl Scouts. We have Boy Scouts. We have Explorer/Adventure Scouts..... the combined minimum age specific program. Leave it be and rebuild its intended purpose. If not, I hope it goes away. I would prefer a complete smaller structure over inclusive broadened pen strokes. Better to be strong and unpopular then watered down garbage.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I think what you're getting dangerously close to saying, but not, is it's ok for young girls to do this...


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Just not this...

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Because they're two different curriculums and girls need to stay in their lane. Correct???

No because deer hunting, playing sports, selling cookies or what ever is not the point. The point is bluntly to have a specific program that speaks directly to gender specific developmental needs. Not a blurry one shoe fits all.

 

[JSJJ388]

I think what you're getting dangerously close to saying, but not, is it's ok for young girls to do this...


View attachment 255819

Just not this...

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Because they're two different curriculums and girls need to stay in their lane. Correct???

Nope, not at all. What Im saying is that girls and boys need different things to mature. And that once mature, each has their own important role. In a Christian marriage it is the mans responsibility to provide for his family. Now, if a woman likes to hunt and fish then thats great! The more people out enjoying Gods creation the better! But, so long as there is a husband, she should not HAVE to go out and provide. Its not that she cant, its that its not her responsibility. I base my beliefs on the Bible, which clearly lays out who is to do what as a general rule. It all goes back to the way the sexes think and operate. You cant cater well to both with one style/structure/curriculum. Sure, we can teach both the same way, but it wont be effective. Im not really sure what is so hard to understand about this.

 

[Infamous1]

Haha They gon be pissed when the girls come in and raise the bar!! Can boys be in the girl scouts? We have been looking for a troop for my daughter and none of the local GS troops camp or hike or any outdoors stuff at all really. Emma expressed no interest at all in it, the boys were all doing knots and navigation skills and thats where she wanted to be. Tried to get her to shave her head and start chewin backer so she would sneak in but she refused.

 

[JSJJ388]

Haha They gon be pissed when the girls come in and raise the bar!! Can boys be in the girl scouts? We have been looking for a troop for my daughter and none of the local GS troops camp or hike or any outdoors stuff at all really. Emma expressed no interest at all in it, the boys were all doing knots and navigation skills and thats where she wanted to be. Tried to get her to shave her head and start chewin backer so she would sneak in but she refused.

lol that would be a sight to see.

On a serious note, I think that this is where the problem lies. The GSA doesnt do what it used to do. It used to teach those things, but in a way that appeals to girls and in a way that they understand best. Fix the problem instead of creating a new one.

 

[UTfball68]

No because deer hunting, playing sports, selling cookies or what ever is not the point. The point is bluntly to have a specific program that speaks directly to gender specific developmental needs. Not a blurry one shoe fits all.

Nope, not at all. What Im saying is that girls and boys need different things to mature. And that once mature, each has their own important role. In a Christian marriage it is the mans responsibility to provide for his family. Now, if a woman likes to hunt and fish then thats great! The more people out enjoying Gods creation the better! But, so long as there is a husband, she should not HAVE to go out and provide. Its not that she cant, its that its not her responsibility. I base my beliefs on the Bible, which clearly lays out who is to do what as a general rule. It all goes back to the way the sexes think and operate. You cant cater well to both with one style/structure/curriculum. Sure, we can teach both the same way, but it wont be effective. Im not really sure what is so hard to understand about this.

And what I'm asking and no one has been able to provide, is what is a gender specific developmental need that the boy scouts are providing that isn't applicable to girls??? Which of the below is in the Bible or specifically develops a male???

When I was in Scouts we told dirty jokes, made spears to kill innocent creatures, played practical jokes which sometimes resulted in some kid not having clothes when we went swimming.... you know, shit like that.

 

[JSJJ388]

And what I'm asking and no one has been able to provide, is what is a gender specific developmental need that the boy scouts are providing that isn't applicable to girls??? Which of the below is in the Bible or specifically develops a male???

Your first question has been answered. A few times. Regardless of content though, boys and girls learn differently. They process differently.

Sure, we told bad jokes and played mean jokes. And every time we did so, we got a butt load of push-ups as punishment.

 

[UTfball68]

Your first question has been answered. A few times. Regardless of content though, boys and girls learn differently. They process differently.

Sure, we told bad jokes and played mean jokes. And every time we did so, we got a butt load of push-ups as punishment.

No...you've stated your opinion several times, based on your biblical beliefs. If you can do that, so can I...and I personally believe any teachings from the Bible is beneficial to all, regardless of gender. And saying boys/girls learn differently is relatively laughable as well. Tell me which of the Men in this thread right now, learn the exact same way, or developed at the exact same time???

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

And what I'm asking and no one has been able to provide, is what is a gender specific developmental need that the boy scouts are providing that isn't applicable to girls??? Which of the below is in the Bible or specifically develops a male???

You can answer that yourself. Do you think like your daughter, wife? Do you react or take on approaches to life like them? Do you pursue an end goal exactly like they would? Does either of those individuals provide you with something no man or boy in a similar environment can? Does either one of them express or carry out anyone thing day to day that is truly feminine and unique to their gender? Are any of these qualities unique enough that they should be developed nurtured and reinforced to make them the best they could be? Do you as a male understand them completely? Never baffled? Never misunderstood? Never missed a beat in all your man hood glory?



Answer them honestly. Answer them emotionally. You may be a super dad and a super husband but your definitely not female. You may be really in touch with your families needs ect. But do you really think the average Joe Jane volunteer is????????

 

[Fabrik8]

Haha They gon be pissed when the girls come in and raise the bar!! Can boys be in the girl scouts? We have been looking for a troop for my daughter and none of the local GS troops camp or hike or any outdoors stuff at all really. Emma expressed no interest at all in it, the boys were all doing knots and navigation skills and thats where she wanted to be. Tried to get her to shave her head and start chewin backer so she would sneak in but she refused.

My mom tried to do that as a Girl Scout leader. It wasn't that successful, partly because most of the girls didn't really have much interest in it (even in rural New England), and partly because the parents of those girls were horrified at the idea of camping and hiking for their little angels. My sister, like your daughter, wanted to do those things and we both ended up doing Explorer Scouts at the same time. Problem solved.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

My mom tried to do that as a Girl Scout leader. It wasn't that successful, partly because most of the girls didn't really have much interest in it (even in rural New England), and partly because the parents of those girls were horrified at the idea of camping and hiking for their little angels. My sister, like your daughter, wanted to do those things and we both ended up doing Explorer Scouts at the same time. Problem solved.

question?? at what age did you start??

 

[UTfball68]

You can answer that yourself. Do you think like your daughter, wife? Do you react or take on approaches to life like them? Do you pursue an end goal exactly like they would? Does either of those individuals provide you with something no man or boy in a similar environment can? Does either one of them express or carry out anyone thing day to day that is truly feminine and unique to their gender? Are any of these qualities unique enough that they should be developed nurtured and reinforced to make them the best they could be? Do you as a male understand them completely? Never baffled? Never misunderstood? Never missed a beat in all your man hood glory?



Answer them honestly. Answer them emotionally. You may be a supper dad and a supper husband but your definitely not female. You may be really in touch with your families needs ect. But do you really think the average Joe Jane volunteer is????????

Can you say you do/can with every other male on the planet???

 

[Fabrik8]

question?? at what age did you start??

I started with Cub Scouts and then Webelos, and Boy Scouts for a while. Got bored and didn't care for the leadership and did Explorer Scouts instead. Can't remember what age for Cub Scouts, but young. My dad was a Cub Scout leader for a while, in some capacity. At some point when I was a Scout he designed and built a few digital timing systems for Pinewood Derby (he was a brilliant electrical engineer), but can't remember exactly when. Sometime in the early '80s.



Ohhhh, you wanted to know when I started with the Girl Scouts...

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Can you say you do/can with every other male on the planet???

yes I would ask those questions??? I think more specifically you intend to inject........does every male react, think, or do as you?

Of course not. We are all different in some ways.

 

[UTfball68]

yes I would ask those questions??? I think more specifically you intend to inject........does every male react, think, or do as you?

Of course not. We are all different in some ways.

Ok...so then your argument is everyone is different, girls are just more differenter, so they're not allowed. Got it.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I started with Cub Scouts and then Webelos, and Boy Scouts for a while. Got bored and didn't care for the leadership and did Explorer Scouts instead.



Ohhhh, you wanted to know when I started with the Girl Scouts...

you pointing is not needed....So what you have stated is upon entry into scouting you were a part of a gender isolated group at a very young age. As you progressed and matured at a latter date you entered a more inclusive group being co-ed. This is the root of the argument. You did not start co-ed at the very young age. This is the new intent of the BSA.

 

[Deplorable]

So one may be able to infer the problem is not with BSA, but rather the Girl Scouts. The GS are not providing a similar (and female specific) opportunity to develop young ladies minds and bodies. Instead they are focusing on tasty cookie sales and boring crafts, both of which today's Sally is not very interested. Step it up Girl Scouts and then you won't have to whine about the BSA.

Angry Girl Scouts Lash Out: "The Boy Scouts' House Is On Fire"

To be clear, my opinion is that each gender needs to have a gender specific program. One that they can relate with their peers, learn, strengthen leadership and enjoy the outdoors. The programs can be extremely similar, but they will differ in the how's and why's of activities.

Now that I successfully solved this dilemma, I'll be addressing the North Korea, Harvey Weinstein and NFL kneelers in separate threads.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Ok...so then your argument is everyone is different, girls are just more differenter, so they're not allowed. Got it.

you can label it not allowed......what you fail to recognize is "NOT BEST SUITED" also meaning "NOT BEST SERVED" developmentally, spiritually, or physically.
THE latter quotation being the most important to me.

 

[Fabrik8]

you pointing is not needed....So what you have stated is upon entry into scouting you were a part of a gender isolated group at a very young age. As you progressed and matured at a latter date you entered a more inclusive group being co-ed. This is the root of the argument. You did not start co-ed at the very young age. This is the new intent of the BSA.

Apologies, I thought you were winding me up about being a Girl Scout.

I agree, I was part of a gender isolated group. I was also not given a choice, but didn't need a choice as I was fine with what the scouts of the proper gender group were doing. My sister would have loved a choice, as she clearly didn't want to do the things that local GS were doing, and they didn't do the adventurous things that were pictured on the cookie boxes.

 

[UTfball68]

you can label it not allowed......what you fail to recognize is "NOT BEST SUITED" also meaning "NOT BEST SERVED" developmentally, spiritually, or physically.
THE latter quotation being the most important to me.

And I'm still questioning by whose definition is it not best suited??? What is going on in Boy Scouts that girls can't/shouldn't be a part of, that won't help them as people??? If a girl chooses to leave the Girl Scouts because they aren't fulfilling a need, then aren't the Boy Scouts a better option? No different than a young girl not being challenged playing soccer or softball and deciding to up the ante and play baseball or football.

 

[Fabrik8]

So one may be able to infer the problem is not with BSA, but rather the Girl Scouts. The GS are not providing a similar (and female specific) opportunity to develop young ladies minds and bodies. Instead they are focusing on tasty cookie sales and boring crafts, both of which today's Sally is not very interested. Step it up Girl Scouts and then you won't have to whine about the BSA.

I agree with this, and I think it's most of the root of the problem. Many girls want to do the same things as the Boy Scouts are doing, and it's not happening in the Girl Scouts unless you belong to the Magical Scout Troops pictured on the cookie boxes.

If you don't need to join the Boy Scouts to do those things, I think the problem mostly goes away. There will always be people who want to fight things purely for the sake of gender inclusion, but I don't think the kids are thinking on those terms.

If girls want to do Boy Scout stuff because Girl Scouts don't do that stuff, I can't see why they should be blocked.

I just think it's the fair thing to do. If you can't find what you need where you are at the moment, go looking for it somewhere else.

 

[Deplorable]

If girls want to do Boy Scout stuff because Girl Scouts don't do that stuff, I can't see why they should be blocked.

I just think it's the fair thing to do. If you can't find what you need where you are at the moment, go looking for it somewhere else.

Ugh. This is the problem with society! Instead of fixing the Girl Scouts, let's destroy the Boy Scouts.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

And I'm still questioning by whose definition is it not best suited??? What is going on in Boy Scouts that girls can't/shouldn't be a part of, that won't help them as people??? If a girl chooses to leave the Girl Scouts because they aren't fulfilling a need, then aren't the Boy Scouts a better option? No different than a young girl not being challenged playing soccer or softball and deciding to up the ante and play baseball or football.

"Girl" Scouts........"Boy" Scouts. Specifically "Boy Scouts of America". The solution isn't dilution or co-ed. That is side stepping a unanswered need. Looks good on paper. Numbers get better and the program suffers. Fix "Girl" Scouting. Use The program in existence for older co-ed approaches. And as for sports...they are what they are...Created and dominated mostly by men. A few women have upset that, I get it. But you and all of us are talking about two specific programs intentionally set aside for gender specific criteria.
So we can probably agree they are beginning to fail miserably at that one effort. Twisting that original intent will no better serve young men or young women. I have witnessed first hand what Boy Scouting can do for young males with no father figure and the lack of female inner action at events. A simple weekly event, a long weekend hike, or a full week at camp surrounded by mostly male figures and counterparts. This is the root of the corruption and final undoing by including young females in the group. You would have to experience it first hand with a broad range of young men and leaders to fully understand the maturing effect the situation presents. With more single parent predominantly female led families this ground should be held firm and sacred for young men.......BOY Scouts.

 

[UTfball68]

Sorry man...unless you tell me the only thing the boy scouts are teaching is how to hold a cheerio under water from 3 ft away, you're not going to convince me a girl couldn't benefit from being in Boy Scouts, and possibly even be a better option than alternatives for that girl. Gone are the days of 'women staying in their lane' and only doing 'female stuff'. And that boys can't still be boys in the presence of girls, never stopped any guy I know while in school. Agree to disagree.

 

[JSJJ388]

Sorry man...unless you tell me the only thing the boy scouts are teaching is how to hold a cheerio under water from 3 ft away, you're not going to convince me a girl couldn't benefit from being in Boy Scouts, and possibly even be a better option than alternatives for that girl. Gone are the days of 'women staying in their lane' and only doing 'female stuff'. And that boys can't still be boys in the presence of girls, never stopped any guy I know while in school. Agree to disagree.

Now the truth cones out. It's not that we haven't given facts that support our stance, you are just u willing to accept them. Should've said that 2 pages ago...

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