Building permit help?????

WARRIORWELDING

Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Location
Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
Trying to understand building permit paper work.
Lien Agent form...I got the gist of what it's for.
But do I need it? The ruling isn't clear to me.
Adding a 40 by 40 metal shop. Not a residence. Total cost est. 60k.

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Holy run on sentence. I thought I was bad.
@shawn
@Ron
@GotWood
@jeepinmatt
@kaiser715
@hell I can't think right now frustrated. Any body who can answer in English..
 
Is it on the same property as your principal residence? Are you self performing?
 
Yes same property. I am hiring and doing subing. Using a building erector. Contract says permitting by others.
 
Meck county has an RTAC (residential technical answer center) hotline where you can answer things like that, your county may also. They'll get code interp answers and all kinds of stuff, or refer to whoever the relevant inspector is.
I wear those guys out with the amount of different shit I have in progress at any given time.
 
Davie may have one. I had my wife pick up this mess. She didn't know or I what questions to ask. Looks like I'm going to have to to wrangle time away from work.
This is all new to me.
 
I read it as: if the value of the work is greater than $30,000, you have to list the lien agent's info if you have a lien.

Here's the full text, I bolded and underlined the 2 relevant sections, but it all applies (this is what they do with your tax dollars:rolleyes:) :
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_160A/GS_160A-417.html
§ 160A-417. Permits.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (a2) of this section, no person shall commence or proceed with any of the following without first securing from the inspection department with jurisdiction over the site of the work any and all permits required by the State Building Code and any other State or local laws applicable to the work:

(1) The construction, reconstruction, alteration, repair, movement to another site, removal, or demolition of any building or structure.


(2) The installation, extension, or general repair of any plumbing system except that in any one- or two-family dwelling unit a permit shall not be required for the connection of a water heater that is being replaced, provided that the work is performed by a person licensed under G.S. 87-21, who personally examines the work at completion and ensures that a leak test has been performed on the gas piping, and provided the energy use rate or thermal input is not greater than that of the water heater which is being replaced, there is no change in fuel, energy source, location, capacity, or routing or sizing of venting and piping, and the replacement is installed in accordance with the current edition of the State Building Code.

(3) The installation, extension, alteration, or general repair of any heating or cooling equipment system.

(4) The installation, extension, alteration, or general repair of any electrical wiring, devices, appliances, or equipment except that in any one- or two-family dwelling unit a permit shall not be required for repair or replacement of electrical lighting fixtures or devices, such as receptacles and lighting switches, or for the connection of an existing branch circuit to an electric water heater that is being replaced, provided that all of the following requirements are met:

a. With respect to electric water heaters, the replacement water heater is placed in the same location and is of the same or less capacity and electrical rating as the original.

b. With respect to electrical lighting fixtures and devices, the replacement is with a fixture or device having the same voltage and the same or less amperage.

c. The work is performed by a person licensed under G.S. 87-43.

d. The repair or replacement installation meets the current edition of the State Building Code, including the State Electrical Code.

However, a permit is not required for the installation, maintenance, or replacement of any load control device or equipment by an electric power supplier, as defined in G.S. 62-133.8, or an electrical contractor contracted by the electric power supplier, so long as the work is subject to supervision by an electrical contractor licensed under Article 4 of Chapter 87 of the General Statutes. The electric power supplier shall provide such installation, maintenance, or replacement in accordance with (i) an activity or program ordered, authorized, or approved by the North Carolina Utilities Commission pursuant to G.S. 62-133.8 or G.S. 62-133.9 or (ii) a similar program undertaken by a municipal electric service provider, whether the installation, modification, or replacement is made before or after the point of delivery of electric service to the customer. The exemption under this subdivision applies to all existing installations.

(a1) A permit shall be in writing and shall contain a provision that the work done shall comply with the State Building Code and all other applicable State and local laws. Nothing in this section shall require a city to review and approve residential building plans submitted to the city pursuant to Section R-110 of Volume VII of the North Carolina State Building Code; provided that the city may review and approve such residential building plans as it deems necessary. No permits shall be issued unless the plans and specifications are identified by the name and address of the author thereof, and if the General Statutes of North Carolina require that plans for certain types of work be prepared only by a licensed architect or licensed engineer, no permit shall be issued unless the plans and specifications bear the North Carolina seal of a licensed architect or of a licensed engineer. When any provision of the General Statutes of North Carolina or of any ordinance requires that work be done by a licensed specialty contractor of any kind, no permit for the work shall be issued unless the work is to be performed by such a duly licensed contractor.

(a2) No permit issued under Articles 9 or 9C of Chapter 143 shall be required for any construction, installation, repair, replacement, or alteration performed in accordance with the current edition of the North Carolina State Building Code and costing fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000) or less in any single family residence or farm building unless the work involves any of the following:

(1) The addition, repair or replacement of load bearing structures. However, no permit is required for replacements of windows, doors, exterior siding, or the pickets, railings, stair treads, and decking of porches and exterior decks.

(2) The addition or change in the design of plumbing. However, no permit is required for replacements otherwise meeting the requirements of this subsection that do not change size or capacity.

(3) The addition, replacement or change in the design of heating, air conditioning, or electrical wiring, devices, appliances, or equipment, other than like-kind replacement of electrical devices and lighting fixtures.

(4) The use of materials not permitted by the North Carolina Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings.

(5) The addition (excluding replacement) of roofing.

(a3) A city shall not require more than one permit for the complete installation or replacement of any natural gas, propane gas, or electrical appliance on an existing structure when the installation or replacement is performed by a person licensed under G.S. 87-21 or G.S. 87-43. The cost of the permit for such work shall not exceed the cost of any one individual trade permit issued by that city, nor shall the city increase the costs of any fees to offset the loss of revenue caused by this provision.

(b) No permit shall be issued pursuant to subsection (a) for any land-disturbing activity, as defined in G.S. 113A-52(6), for any activity covered by G.S. 113A-57, unless an erosion and sedimentation control plan has been approved by the Sedimentation Pollution Control Commission pursuant to G.S. 113A-54(d)(4) or by a local government pursuant to G.S. 113A-61 for the site of the activity or a tract of land including the site of the activity.

(c) Repealed by Session Laws 2014-115, s. 15(b), effective August 11, 2014.

(d) (Effective until July 1, 2017) No permit shall be issued pursuant to subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this section where the cost of the work is thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) or more, other than for improvements to an existing single-family residential dwelling unit as defined in G.S. 87-15.5(7) that the owner occupies as a residence, or for the addition of an accessory building or accessory structure as defined in the North Carolina Uniform Residential Building Code, the use of which is incidental to that residential dwelling unit, unless the name, physical and mailing address, telephone number, facsimile number, and electronic mail address of the lien agent designated by the owner pursuant to G.S. 44A-11.1(a) is conspicuously set forth in the permit or in an attachment thereto. The building permit may contain the lien agent's electronic mail address. The lien agent information for each permit issued pursuant to this subsection shall be maintained by the inspection department in the same manner and in the same location in which it maintains its record of building permits issued.

(d) (Effective July 1, 2017) No permit shall be issued pursuant to subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this section where the cost of the work is thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) or more, other than for improvements to an existing single-family residential dwelling unit as defined in G.S. 87-15.5(7) that the owner occupies as a residence, or for the addition of an accessory building or accessory structure as defined in the North Carolina Uniform Residential Building Code, the use of which is incidental to that residential dwelling unit, unless the name, physical and mailing address, telephone number, facsimile number, and electronic mail address of the lien agent designated by the owner pursuant to G.S. 44A-11.1(a) is conspicuously set forth in the permit or in an attachment thereto. The building permit may contain the lien agent's electronic mail address. The lien agent information for each permit issued pursuant to this subsection shall be maintained by the inspection department in the same manner and in the same location in which it maintains its record of building permits issued. Where the improvements to a real property leasehold are limited to the purchase, transportation, and setup of a manufactured home, as defined in G.S. 143-143.9(6), for which there is a current certificate of title, the purchase price of the manufactured home shall be excluded in determining whether the cost of the work is thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) or more.


(e) No city may withhold issuing a building permit or certificate of occupancy that otherwise would be eligible to be issued under this section to compel, with respect to another property or parcel, completion of work for a separate permit or compliance with land use regulations under this Article unless otherwise authorized by law or unless the city reasonably determines the existence of a public safety issue directly related to the issuance of a building permit or certificate of occupancy.

(f) Violation of this section constitutes a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1905, c. 506, s. 26; Rev., s. 2986; 1915, c. 192, s. 3; C.S., s. 2748; 1957, c. 817; 1969, c. 1065, s. 1; 1971, c. 698, s. 1; 1973, c. 426, s. 65; 1981, c. 677, s. 1; 1983, c. 377, s. 3; c. 614, s. 1; 1987 (Reg. Sess., 1988), c. 1000, s. 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1090; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 741, s. 2; 2002-165, s. 2.20; 2008-198, s. 8(d); 2009-532, s. 3; 2012-158, s. 5; 2013-58, s. 3; 2013-117, s. 5; 2013-160, s. 2; 2014-115, s. 15(b); 2015-145, ss. 4.3(a), (b); 2015-187, s. 2(a); 2016-59, s. 9; 2016-113, s. 13(c).)
 
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I read it as: if the value of the work is greater than $30,000, you have to list the lien agent's info if you have a lien.

Here's the full text, I bolded and underlined the 2 relevant sections, but it all applies (this is what they do with your tax dollars:rolleyes:) :
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_160A/GS_160A-417.html
§ 160A-417. Permits.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (a2) of this section, no person shall commence or proceed with any of the following without first securing from the inspection department with jurisdiction over the site of the work any and all permits required by the State Building Code and any other State or local laws applicable to the work:

(1) The construction, reconstruction, alteration, repair, movement to another site, removal, or demolition of any building or structure.


(2) The installation, extension, or general repair of any plumbing system except that in any one- or two-family dwelling unit a permit shall not be required for the connection of a water heater that is being replaced, provided that the work is performed by a person licensed under G.S. 87-21, who personally examines the work at completion and ensures that a leak test has been performed on the gas piping, and provided the energy use rate or thermal input is not greater than that of the water heater which is being replaced, there is no change in fuel, energy source, location, capacity, or routing or sizing of venting and piping, and the replacement is installed in accordance with the current edition of the State Building Code.

(3) The installation, extension, alteration, or general repair of any heating or cooling equipment system.

(4) The installation, extension, alteration, or general repair of any electrical wiring, devices, appliances, or equipment except that in any one- or two-family dwelling unit a permit shall not be required for repair or replacement of electrical lighting fixtures or devices, such as receptacles and lighting switches, or for the connection of an existing branch circuit to an electric water heater that is being replaced, provided that all of the following requirements are met:

a. With respect to electric water heaters, the replacement water heater is placed in the same location and is of the same or less capacity and electrical rating as the original.

b. With respect to electrical lighting fixtures and devices, the replacement is with a fixture or device having the same voltage and the same or less amperage.

c. The work is performed by a person licensed under G.S. 87-43.

d. The repair or replacement installation meets the current edition of the State Building Code, including the State Electrical Code.

However, a permit is not required for the installation, maintenance, or replacement of any load control device or equipment by an electric power supplier, as defined in G.S. 62-133.8, or an electrical contractor contracted by the electric power supplier, so long as the work is subject to supervision by an electrical contractor licensed under Article 4 of Chapter 87 of the General Statutes. The electric power supplier shall provide such installation, maintenance, or replacement in accordance with (i) an activity or program ordered, authorized, or approved by the North Carolina Utilities Commission pursuant to G.S. 62-133.8 or G.S. 62-133.9 or (ii) a similar program undertaken by a municipal electric service provider, whether the installation, modification, or replacement is made before or after the point of delivery of electric service to the customer. The exemption under this subdivision applies to all existing installations.

(a1) A permit shall be in writing and shall contain a provision that the work done shall comply with the State Building Code and all other applicable State and local laws. Nothing in this section shall require a city to review and approve residential building plans submitted to the city pursuant to Section R-110 of Volume VII of the North Carolina State Building Code; provided that the city may review and approve such residential building plans as it deems necessary. No permits shall be issued unless the plans and specifications are identified by the name and address of the author thereof, and if the General Statutes of North Carolina require that plans for certain types of work be prepared only by a licensed architect or licensed engineer, no permit shall be issued unless the plans and specifications bear the North Carolina seal of a licensed architect or of a licensed engineer. When any provision of the General Statutes of North Carolina or of any ordinance requires that work be done by a licensed specialty contractor of any kind, no permit for the work shall be issued unless the work is to be performed by such a duly licensed contractor.

(a2) No permit issued under Articles 9 or 9C of Chapter 143 shall be required for any construction, installation, repair, replacement, or alteration performed in accordance with the current edition of the North Carolina State Building Code and costing fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000) or less in any single family residence or farm building unless the work involves any of the following:

(1) The addition, repair or replacement of load bearing structures. However, no permit is required for replacements of windows, doors, exterior siding, or the pickets, railings, stair treads, and decking of porches and exterior decks.

(2) The addition or change in the design of plumbing. However, no permit is required for replacements otherwise meeting the requirements of this subsection that do not change size or capacity.

(3) The addition, replacement or change in the design of heating, air conditioning, or electrical wiring, devices, appliances, or equipment, other than like-kind replacement of electrical devices and lighting fixtures.

(4) The use of materials not permitted by the North Carolina Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings.

(5) The addition (excluding replacement) of roofing.

(a3) A city shall not require more than one permit for the complete installation or replacement of any natural gas, propane gas, or electrical appliance on an existing structure when the installation or replacement is performed by a person licensed under G.S. 87-21 or G.S. 87-43. The cost of the permit for such work shall not exceed the cost of any one individual trade permit issued by that city, nor shall the city increase the costs of any fees to offset the loss of revenue caused by this provision.

(b) No permit shall be issued pursuant to subsection (a) for any land-disturbing activity, as defined in G.S. 113A-52(6), for any activity covered by G.S. 113A-57, unless an erosion and sedimentation control plan has been approved by the Sedimentation Pollution Control Commission pursuant to G.S. 113A-54(d)(4) or by a local government pursuant to G.S. 113A-61 for the site of the activity or a tract of land including the site of the activity.

(c) Repealed by Session Laws 2014-115, s. 15(b), effective August 11, 2014.

(d) (Effective until July 1, 2017) No permit shall be issued pursuant to subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this section where the cost of the work is thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) or more, other than for improvements to an existing single-family residential dwelling unit as defined in G.S. 87-15.5(7) that the owner occupies as a residence, or for the addition of an accessory building or accessory structure as defined in the North Carolina Uniform Residential Building Code, the use of which is incidental to that residential dwelling unit, unless the name, physical and mailing address, telephone number, facsimile number, and electronic mail address of the lien agent designated by the owner pursuant to G.S. 44A-11.1(a) is conspicuously set forth in the permit or in an attachment thereto. The building permit may contain the lien agent's electronic mail address. The lien agent information for each permit issued pursuant to this subsection shall be maintained by the inspection department in the same manner and in the same location in which it maintains its record of building permits issued.

(d) (Effective July 1, 2017) No permit shall be issued pursuant to subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this section where the cost of the work is thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) or more, other than for improvements to an existing single-family residential dwelling unit as defined in G.S. 87-15.5(7) that the owner occupies as a residence, or for the addition of an accessory building or accessory structure as defined in the North Carolina Uniform Residential Building Code, the use of which is incidental to that residential dwelling unit, unless the name, physical and mailing address, telephone number, facsimile number, and electronic mail address of the lien agent designated by the owner pursuant to G.S. 44A-11.1(a) is conspicuously set forth in the permit or in an attachment thereto. The building permit may contain the lien agent's electronic mail address. The lien agent information for each permit issued pursuant to this subsection shall be maintained by the inspection department in the same manner and in the same location in which it maintains its record of building permits issued. Where the improvements to a real property leasehold are limited to the purchase, transportation, and setup of a manufactured home, as defined in G.S. 143-143.9(6), for which there is a current certificate of title, the purchase price of the manufactured home shall be excluded in determining whether the cost of the work is thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) or more.


(e) No city may withhold issuing a building permit or certificate of occupancy that otherwise would be eligible to be issued under this section to compel, with respect to another property or parcel, completion of work for a separate permit or compliance with land use regulations under this Article unless otherwise authorized by law or unless the city reasonably determines the existence of a public safety issue directly related to the issuance of a building permit or certificate of occupancy.

(f) Violation of this section constitutes a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1905, c. 506, s. 26; Rev., s. 2986; 1915, c. 192, s. 3; C.S., s. 2748; 1957, c. 817; 1969, c. 1065, s. 1; 1971, c. 698, s. 1; 1973, c. 426, s. 65; 1981, c. 677, s. 1; 1983, c. 377, s. 3; c. 614, s. 1; 1987 (Reg. Sess., 1988), c. 1000, s. 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1090; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 741, s. 2; 2002-165, s. 2.20; 2008-198, s. 8(d); 2009-532, s. 3; 2012-158, s. 5; 2013-58, s. 3; 2013-117, s. 5; 2013-160, s. 2; 2014-115, s. 15(b); 2015-145, ss. 4.3(a), (b); 2015-187, s. 2(a); 2016-59, s. 9; 2016-113, s. 13(c).)
That made my head hurt worse. I don't have any liens or intentions of having one. I think the intent is making sure folks get paid and can attach one when needed. Which I get. I just don't understand if I have to do this, it's more fees and bs.
 
I refuse to guess about NC....
@farmboy
@rockcity

They both GC in NC
Thanks maybe these guys can help..
Up til now everybody was pushing to do this as a aggricultural building. Mostly my FIL. My gut all along said do this by the numbers.
I dont want any hiccups best I can prevent.
 
I did mine as an agricultural building to avoid all that crap. Only inspection was rough electrical. No permit, no other inspections. A lot less hoops.
 
Worse case scenario you list your mortgage holder as the line holder
 
Worse case scenario you list your mortgage holder as the line holder
I don't have one.. From what I get it has nothing to do with loans.
 
I did mine as an agricultural building to avoid all that crap. Only inspection was rough electrical. No permit, no other inspections. A lot less hoops.
When I stated I want 3 phase power since its literally right in front of the building everybodies head exploded.
We are zoned aggricultural, rural.
But a zoning employee said since we don't file a farm number we couldn't use that loop hole.
 
Even the builder stands by that in this county I don't need to go through the permitting for,my type of building. But getting the permits for power have put me on alert..

This building is almost 500 feet from any power...so it's not like I can tie in existing.
 
If your project is $30k or more, you need a lien agent. It does not matter if you have a loan on the property or not.

Go to Liensnc.com to get one. It's just $25. Once you are all paid up, print the confirmation sheet and submit it with the building permit application.


It's a fairly new requirement. Basically, it provides 2 things.

1. A way for the state and any other person, next homeowner included, to track suppliers, vendors, etc on your project.

2. Provides a seamless lien process if someone doesn't pay their bill.


You must also post the lien agent sheet with the permit card at the job site.

To add to #2, while this kind of seems to suck for the homeowner, it does provide some relief. If a vendor or sub or supplier does not provide notice to your lien agent that they have provided services or materials, the the new law says that supplier/vendor/sub waived any right to file a lien.

You will likely get lien agent notices in the mail from suppliers, etc. But many don't know about it or the law, etc. so you may not get many notices. Experienced subs or suppliers that provide services on credit likely will make notice to your lien agent. No worries, as long as you pay your bills. Just double check their notification to verify it coincides with your contract amount. ;)
 
When I stated I want 3 phase power since its literally right in front of the building everybodies head exploded.
We are zoned aggricultural, rural.
But a zoning employee said since we don't file a farm number we couldn't use that loop hole.
I don't have a farm number either. I got an agricultural exception since I use the building primarily for maintaining equipment used on my land. It was through the zoning department. I never told and was never asked what type of power, seems like that would be between you and the power company, and the inspector just makes sure it's wired right.
 
If your project is $30k or more, you need a lien agent. It does not matter if you have a loan on the property or not.

Go to Liensnc.com to get one. It's just $25. Once you are all paid up, print the confirmation sheet and submit it with the building permit application.


It's a fairly new requirement. Basically, it provides 2 things.

1. A way for the state and any other person, next homeowner included, to track suppliers, vendors, etc on your project.

2. Provides a seamless lien process if someone doesn't pay their bill.


You must also post the lien agent sheet with the permit card at the job site.

To add to #2, while this kind of seems to suck for the homeowner, it does provide some relief. If a vendor or sub or supplier does not provide notice to your lien agent that they have provided services or materials, the the new law says that supplier/vendor/sub waived any right to file a lien.

You will likely get lien agent notices in the mail from suppliers, etc. But many don't know about it or the law, etc. so you may not get many notices. Experienced subs or suppliers that provide services on credit likely will make notice to your lien agent. No worries, as long as you pay your bills. Just double check their notification to verify it coincides with your contract amount. ;)
Thanks a straight answer.
 
I don't have a farm number either. I got an agricultural exception since I use the building primarily for maintaining equipment used on my land. It was through the zoning department. I never told and was never asked what type of power, seems like that would be between you and the power company, and the inspector just makes sure it's wired right.
What I intended and still prefer.
 
@jeepinmatt Did you get 3 phase power??
Some of my existing equipment and wish list would be a lot happier on it.
 
No, I'm on single phase with a 20hp phase converter. Found a good deal on an American Rotary CNC Soft Start about the time I finished drying in the shop.
 
If your project is $30k or more, you need a lien agent. It does not matter if you have a loan on the property or not.

You don't need a lien agent.

other than for improvements to an existing single-family residential dwelling unit as defined in G.S. 87-15.5(7) that the owner occupies as a residence, or for the addition of an accessory building or accessory structure as defined in the North Carolina Uniform Residential Building Code, the use of which is incidental to that residential dwelling unit


If it's a modification to an owner-occupied residence or for the addition or modification of an accessory building on the same property, no lien agent required.
 
You don't need a lien agent.



If it's a modification to an owner-occupied residence or for the addition or modification of an accessory building on the same property, no lien agent required.


If it's more than $30k it's required for a building permit. At least that's how Pitt County treats it regardless. Depends on your county permit office's level of competence.

$25 is well worth the frustration avoidance from having to go to the permit office multiple times because the staff doesn't know the laws accurately. And, it protects you as a having a lien agent, any supplier can't come back and file a lien after a sub failed to pay unless they made a notice to the agent.


Additionally, if there is a GC permit pulled by someone other than by the owner, a lien agent will be required.

If you are an owner, to be considered part of the exemption, you must be a residence there and it must be your primary residence. Otherwise you are subject to your permit office's discretion.
 
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You don't need a lien agent.



If it's a modification to an owner-occupied residence or for the addition or modification of an accessory building on the same property, no lien agent required.
I've read this entire paragraph at least 20 times. My wife a degree holder in English still can't get a clear meaning. I argue that it reads both ways only that 30k is a damn important number to them.
 
If it's more than $30k it's required for a building permit. At least that's how Pitt County treats it regardless. Depends on your county permit office's level of competence.

$25 is well worth the frustration avoidance from having to go to the permit office multiple times because the staff doesn't know the laws accurately. And, it protects you as a having a lien agent, any supplier can't come back and file a lien after a sub failed to pay unless they made a notice to the agent.


Additionally, if there is a GC permit pulled by someone other than by the owner, a lien agent will be required.

If you are an owner, to be considered part of the exemption, you must be a residence there and it must be your primary residence. Otherwise you are subject to your permit office's discretion.
This is exacy what I have gathered....
 
This is exacy what I have gathered....


Shawn is right that if it's your house you don't need a lien waiver if you are actin as the GC.

However, if your permit office says you need it, regardless of the the GS states, get it for $25. Otherwise you'll spend 20 times that proving your point that they are wrong and you are right to the one office that you really want to be friends with and don't want to piss off. :D

If they are incompetent, spend the $25 and make their day. Your life during this project will be much easier. ;)
 
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