Building with Rough Cut Lumber

rcalexander105

rcalexander105

JV Wheeler
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Location
High Point
I've been trying to do some research on building with rough cut lumber and getting conflicting results.

I've mentioned on here before that I've got a lot of white pines on my 2 acre lot that I'm taking out (20+ and some I can't wrap my arms around). I'm also planning on putting a 40x40 shop (or thereabouts) out back. My goal is the build as much of the shop as I can with the trees off my lot, but I've heard from a few people that I absolutely cannot as it has to be kiln dried and stamped. I've also seen that if the trees are coming off your lot and you're building on it that you can but you have to get the county inspectors to sign off on it (see the trees on your lot, make sure they dry for at least 90 days, etc.).

Anybody have any experience or more in the know on building codes? I'm in Davidson County for reference and not in the city limits.
 
getting it kiln dried is the kicker.
And you don't want to use it for anything structural without being dried. Unless you want to wait a really long time.
 
RatLabGuy said:
getting it kiln dried is the kicker.
And you don't want to use it for anything structural without being dried.
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Too bad Lowes and Home Depot don't adhere to that principle.
 
My shop is built with rough cut SYP and I just bought more from the same guy to add the 16ā€™ shelters on each side. No inspectors have been here šŸ˜‡

A home, no I wouldnā€™t due to insurance issues.
 
You can use ungraded lumber for your house so long as that specific lumber came from that specific land.
Here are the restrictions:
Lumber must be from that land
It must be for your residence and you must occupy for a minimum of 1 year
Lumber must be 19%MC max when framed
Must contact your local inspections dept to get an inspector to walk the property to verify source of lumber.

The NCDOI has issued an interpretation of using ungraded lumber under section 105 of the NC state building code.


19% is pretty easy to achieve on dimensional lumber without a kiln. Most of the time by the time you are ready to cover with drywall, itā€™s air dried enough and meets max MC.
 
Wait a darn minute. Are we talking She Shed material? Or a general use barn, utility, shed? Possibly started as a pole barn and closed in over time, or just simply listed as an aggricultural building?


That to me is the nut and bolt part of the whole process. Are you or do you require a permit?

If no is the prevailing answer on the particulars I would personally have it milled or doit yourself. Sticker and stack it with a bit of preventive measures for bugs. After a season or a good dry winter build at will.
A grader friend has done several large sheds and barns for equipment. Almost all constructed of pine harvested from clearing jobs and none stacked and dried.

Logs hauled off site, cut when convenient and all have been in service for several years. My older relatives have all done the same for various out buildings.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Splitting hairs here, but their (and everyone's) SYP and SPF is stamped HT/KD to kill insects and lower the MC.
You probably know that, but I'm pooping and bored
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Then why do they waste money pumping moisture back in?

I'm not really joking. They only seem to have 2 kinds of boards: straight and wet, or dry, 50% lighter, and warped.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Then why do they waste money pumping moisture back in?

I'm not really joking. They only seem to have 2 kinds of boards: straight and wet, or dry, 50% lighter, and warped.
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I should have said their framing/untreated lumber is HT/KD as it has to meet standards of the SPIB (southern pine inspection bureau).
Their preservative treated is certainly wet as is most folks. We special order KDAT primarily for county school systems who require KDAT for room blocking. KDAT adds around 30-35 percent to the cost BTW
 
RatLabGuy said:
Wow 19% is pretty wet.
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it is, but then itā€™s not. Itā€™s below the limit for mold growth. itā€™s not as stable as MC-15 but itā€™s reasonable, especially if all lumber is the same MC and built at the same time. If you are doing a renovation or addition, itā€™s better to find lower moisture content for better stability after construction.

For dimensional lumber, by the time you mill green wood, sticker it, air dry it while you are building the foundation, etc, it will be close to that 19% when you need it for framing and most certainly at or below by the time you need to install drywall.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
Wait a darn minute. Are we talking She Shed material? Or a general use barn, utility, shed? Possibly started as a pole barn and closed in over time, or just simply listed as an aggricultural building?


That to me is the nut and bolt part of the whole process. Are you or do you require a permit?

If no is the prevailing answer on the particulars I would personally have it milled or doit yourself. Sticker and stack it with a bit of preventive measures for bugs. After a season or a good dry winter build at will.
A grader friend has done several large sheds and barns for equipment. Almost all constructed of pine harvested from clearing jobs and none stacked and dried.

Logs hauled off site, cut when convenient and all have been in service for several years. My older relatives have all done the same for various out buildings.
Click to expand...

Probably 2/3 of the old farms in NC have buildings 100+ years old that they cut the trees as needed and built on dry stack rock foundations.
Still in use and will be when we are dead and gone.
At my wifes grandmothers house they went to tear down an old barn they THOUGHT was dangerous.
A couple of tractors and some chains and the thing didn't even creak.
Eventually they tore off the bottom two run of boards and chainsawed where the bare timbers where stuck into the ground when originally built 100+ years ago.
They done this all the way around the barn and still couldn't get it to go.
It stood like that for 2 months until they could get a bulldozer to take it down.
That thing would have been good for another 200 years.
 
Loganwayne said:
call your inspectors.

we just had to replace a beam in a house that was originally white pine with another due to changing some interior walls and the inspectors signed off on it.
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Done done it, waiting on a call back

kaiser715 said:
You can hire the same inspectors that stamp for the sawmills...

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Seent that, and watched quite a few of his other videos too. I'd love to get me a sawmill bout like what he has.

rockcity said:
You can use ungraded lumber for your house so long as that specific lumber came from that specific land.
Here are the restrictions:
Lumber must be from that land
It must be for your residence and you must occupy for a minimum of 1 year
Lumber must be 19%MC max when framed
Must contact your local inspections dept to get an inspector to walk the property to verify source of lumber.

The NCDOI has issued an interpretation of using ungraded lumber under section 105 of the NC state building code.


19% is pretty easy to achieve on dimensional lumber without a kiln. Most of the time by the time you are ready to cover with drywall, itā€™s air dried enough and meets max MC.
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This is nearly verbatim of what I found here:


I'm going to be checking these boxes which makes me things it's doable. I'm planning on doing a lot of the work myself (prepping site, possibly dig foundations, prep for concrete, back framing, running electrical, etc.) and some of the logs are down and cut to length so just need to be milled. Figured I should have plenty of time for them to dry if I keep going down the path to milling and using them here.

But then I talk to other folks I know (one a former DaCo inspector) and hear things such as this...
CasterTroy said:
Has to be kiln dried and certified by an engineer if it's not stamped wood In Davidson county
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PERIOD!! No exceptions they say...absolutely not, nothing you can do about it.

WARRIORWELDING said:
Wait a darn minute. Are we talking She Shed material? Or a general use barn, utility, shed? Possibly started as a pole barn and closed in over time, or just simply listed as an agricultural building?


That to me is the nut and bolt part of the whole process. Are you or do you require a permit?

If no is the prevailing answer on the particulars I would personally have it milled or doit yourself. Sticker and stack it with a bit of preventive measures for bugs. After a season or a good dry winter build at will.
A grader friend has done several large sheds and barns for equipment. Almost all constructed of pine harvested from clearing jobs and none stacked and dried.

Logs hauled off site, cut when convenient and all have been in service for several years. My older relatives have all done the same for various out buildings.
Click to expand...
In this particular case, I'm wanting a 40x40 shop with a studio-type apartment above. Block foundation and bricked to match my house, stick framed (hopefully with the lumber coming off my lot) and then metal sheeting on the exterior from the top of the brick up. I live in an HOA but they're fairly lax on things (the worst will be my next door neighbor, Karen). I also know the head of the building committee out here so I think that end will go smooth.

As much as I hate it though, I will likely need to pull a permit.
 
rcalexander105 said:
But then I talk to other folks I know (one a former DaCo inspector) and hear things such as this...


PERIOD!! No exceptions they say...absolutely not, nothing you can do about it.
Click to expand...
You CAN fight it with code in hand.....but as you've likely heard from the former inspector......Davidson county currently has 2 residential inspectors, and they're busy as hell. Not only that....the DaCo inspection office doesn't have time nor the patience to dick with anything outside of the norm (liability)

Neil tried 2 different times to get a simple fully enclosed boat storage shed built down at High Rock with rough cut from the property that had been stacked and dried because of the shortage....they wanted nothing to do with issuing a permit for it. They told him

CasterTroy said:
Has to be kiln dried and certified by an engineer if it's not stamped wood In Davidson county
Click to expand...
or GTFO
 
CasterTroy said:
You CAN fight it with code in hand.....but as you've likely heard from the former inspector......Davidson county currently has 2 residential inspectors, and they're busy as hell. Not only that....the DaCo inspection office doesn't have time nor the patience to dick with anything outside of the norm (liability)

Neil tried 2 different times to get a simple fully enclosed boat storage shed built down at High Rock with rough cut from the property that had been stacked and dried because of the shortage....they wanted nothing to do with issuing a permit for it. They told him


or GTFO
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Yea, but just because they're an inefficiently-ran government operation (and/or lazy bc they don't want to bother with it) doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to do it. I know you know (from experience) but sumbitch that's some shitty shit. Just some gov't overreach BS to make you pay the piper imo.
 
rcalexander105 said:
Yea, but just because they're an inefficiently-ran government operation (and/or lazy bc they don't want to bother with it) doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to do it.
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100% agree

Neil didn't have time/money to fight city hall so he just paid thru the nose for stamped lumber and rolled on. Plus....as someone who does quite a bit of work in in Davidson he didn't want to bring a lot of attention to himself so they nitpick anything he does from now on. But given you're just building ONE thing, and you love to :stirthepot: and piss off Karen's everywhere I know what's next :laughing:


Dis Gon B Good GIF
 
You canā€™t use ungraded lumber on a structure thatā€™s not your own residence unless you meet the 4 requirements I listed earlier. A farm shed is exempt and you, basically, can use whatever you want. But to use ungraded lumber on a structure, it has to be your personal RESIDENCE for at least a year after CO, wood has to come from that land, has to be 19% MC max, and inspector has to walk the land before timber is logged. If the inspector hasnā€™t walked the land first, tough shit. The State has give a waiver on the graded lumber requirement and if you donā€™t meet all 4 conditions for the waiver, there is no reason an inspector should or would sign off on ungraded lumber use.

There is another option. Get an engineer or architect to sign off on the structure, under their stamp, stating the structure meets minimum codes for NC, etc. I mean, how else do you think timber framed homes are built? Many of those logs arenā€™t KDHT or carry any grade stampā€¦.
 
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Could you just overthrow the government? Seems simpler.
 
rockcity said:
You canā€™t use ungraded lumber on a structure thatā€™s not your own residence unless you meet the 4 requirements I listed earlier. A farm shed is exempt and you, basically, can use whatever you want. But to use ungraded lumber on a structure, it has to be your personal RESIDENCE for at least a year after CO, wood has to come from that land, has to be 19% MC max, and inspector has to walk the land before timber is logged. If the inspector hasnā€™t walked the land first, tough shit. The State has give a waiver on the graded lumber requirement and if you donā€™t meet all 4 conditions for the waiver, there is no reason an inspector should or would sign off on ungraded lumber use.

There is another option. Get an engineer or architect to sign off on the structure, under their stamp, stating the structure meets minimum codes for NC, etc. I mean, how else do you think timber framed homes are built? Many of those logs arenā€™t KDHT or carry any grade stampā€¦.
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So what you're saying is this other option is basically my only option since this isn't going to be my residence (except my wife told me I need to leave and I plan on living in the upstairs studio permatemporarily).
 
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