Coal Ash

http://freebeacon.com/issues/foreig...oups-tied-to-state-owned-russian-oil-company/

Oil companies have been fracking for... Sixty years?

Power companies don't really make money. If you think they're cash cows, buy their stock.

As a customer of the power company, you're paying for their operating expenses regardless. If they spend hundreds of millions of dollars getting sued and paying settlements, you pick up the tab. If they spend hundreds of millions on compliance costs for new EPA regulations, you pay for it.
 
I have to ask a question. Ive brought it up before and the response is always crickets.

For those that oppose fracking, can you please do 2 things for me.
1- Will you please describe what "fracking" is to you in a couple sentences. Doesnt have to be technical, just what it actually means.
2- Please state what fears you fear. What damage will it cause. Please dont simply post a link, and I wont respond with one. Just give me your thoughts.
 
Think of it the same as if McD's starts paying their employees 15 an hour starting pay. You think the Kroc's are going to suffer, nope. They're just going to pass it on as a $10 big mac. I dont really think the power companies intentionally cut corners. I think they did as little as they had to, to stay within the regulations set by the g'ment and to keep our cost low. People bitch when they have to pay a few more dollars for electricity but dont wanna turn their thermostats down in the winter or up in the summer.
In the fifties smoking was all the norm and little was known about it, we ran leaded gas in our cars, and they just pumped straight exahust out of the coal fired plants. Now we know smoking is bad and has carcinogenic chemicals, theres no lead in the gas anymore, and they have also cleaned up the exhaust from most steam plants. Putting scrubbers and filters in the exhaust, so much so that it's mainly just hot air and steam being released out of the towers. Who pays for this? We do of course, and as regulations go up, so do the cost of cigarettes, gas, and electricity. The companies aren't taking the hit. We are, but you can quit smoking, get a more fuel efficient car, and not have electricity.
I dont see why people get so upset when the corporations make money. Unless they are a non profit then thats what they are there to do. If you provide a service to someone, you're going to do the job and do it the way it is required to be done, but in a way that keeps your overhead as low as possible. That's just smart business. Electricity is not a necessity to survive in life. It's a luxury. You dont have to have it. Or you can you can even make it yourself and take on the cost required to build, run, and maintain your own little grid.
If you wanna blame anyone, blame our g'ment. We pump billions of dollars into the EPA every year. They are the ones that are supposed to be regulating this type of stuff. Im not for big government in any way, but if the program is already there and the money is being spent then the job should be getting done! They've known about these ponds for decades and the toxic effects but never put into effect or forced the corps to fix the problem. And like I said above. These companies aren't going to do any more than they have to, when they have to.

Is it right...... no, not by any means. Will it change, maybe, but it'll probably be long after we're all dead.
 
Ron said:
I have to ask a question. Ive brought it up before and the response is always crickets.

For those that oppose fracking, can you please do 2 things for me.
1- Will you please describe what "fracking" is to you in a couple sentences. Doesnt have to be technical, just what it actually means.
2- Please state what fears you fear. What damage will it cause. Please dont simply post a link, and I wont respond with one. Just give me your thoughts.
Click to expand...


I am opposed to fracking because of it's link to fricking-fracking which is usually heard in reference to some difficult part being removed from a vehicle or other piece of machinery. I often hear people substituting frickin for a much more profane expletive, but still used to show emotion in speaking. If a girl is a whore, that's one thing, but for her to be a fricking whore - now that's a much different ball game. In the same way, fricking-fracking brings fricking to a whole new level. Fracking, being an abbreviation of fricking-fracking - just as fricking is, can also be a powerful euphemism for the more profane expletive.

Since this more profane f-originating expletive is also a pseudonym for fornicating and the Earth is often referred to as "Mother Earth", by encouraging the process of fracking, it's sort of like saying "F@#$ your Mother". Which if said in just about any setting - be it a calm country club environment or a biker bar, it's likely to get you in to some sort of fight. So, since we all can agree that saying "F@#$ your Mother" is bad, it's safe to conclude by connection that fracking is bad too.

What fears I fear? Clowns. Not the scary type like Pennywise, the ones who make balloon animals. That's just wrong.
 
mommucked said:
IMO the power cos. cut corners and took risks to save ( make ) more money and now they want the users to pay to clean up their mistakes?? I hope you're right about fracking being safe, but if you're wrong we'll be paying to to try to clean up a bigger mess than coal ash one day.
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Everyone makes mistakes but for the most part, the digging up and moving of the ash is to satisfy the environmental nut jobs and the change in govt regulation since the ash ponds were installed throughout the last 65 years. It's not like the ponds were installed and left to be some crazy health and water hazard without strict monitoring; truth is, regulations have changed and to be able to continue to meet the expectations of the regulations, some of the coal needs to be relocated to a more current storage method to meet requirements of the govt.


I'm surprised at the public's misinformation on this subject (coal ash)
 
RobMcBee said:
I dont really think the power companies intentionally cut corners. I think they did as little as they had to, to stay within the regulations set by the g'ment and to keep our cost low. People bitch when they have to pay a few more dollars for electricity but dont wanna turn their thermostats down in the winter or up in the summer.
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Don't forget -- because they're a public utility, if there's a cost bump or a service issue, or most anything else that can be exploited politically, some enterprising statesman will subpoena all the executives and drag them in for committee hearings to "defend the public interest".
 
RobMcBee said:
Electricity is not a necessity to survive in life. It's a luxury. You dont have to have it. Or you can you can even make it yourself and take on the cost required to build, run, and maintain your own little grid.
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DSS would disagree with this statement. Electricity, heat, and running water are required or they can take your kids.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
DSS would disagree with this statement. Electricity, heat, and running water are required or they can take your kids.
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..... yeah because we all know that DSS knows whats best for our childern LOL. Like said You can have all three of those and still be "Off Grid". I've met some mtn folk who are still living this way by choice, and they're pretty damn happy LOL
 
RobMcBee said:
..... yeah because we all know that DSS knows whats best for our childern LOL. Like said You can have all three of those and still be "Off Grid". I've met some mtn folk who are still living this way by choice, and they're pretty damn happy LOL
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I agree 100%, have seen some deadbeat parents that get their kids back just because they can prove the power and water are back on.

Once I retire I hope to get off the grid.
 
Ive been researching it, but right now even with what little g'ment subsidies that are out there the cost is way to high, but thats a whole other conversation.
 
Ron said:
I have to ask a question. Ive brought it up before and the response is always crickets.

For those that oppose fracking, can you please do 2 things for me.
1- Will you please describe what "fracking" is to you in a couple sentences. Doesnt have to be technical, just what it actually means.
2- Please state what fears you fear. What damage will it cause. Please dont simply post a link, and I wont respond with one. Just give me your thoughts.
Click to expand...

From what I've read a hole is bored deep into the ground, apparently to a depth that is far enough below the surface water table so the water and fracking chemicals ( that they want to keep secret from the public) they inject into the earth, under high pressure do not contaminate the water table wells,springs,creeks,rivers etc. Then they drill many horizontal bores from the bottom of the vertical wellhead that extend all over and under lands whose owners may not want them to, like spokes from a wheel. The chemicals are pumped into the ground fracturing the shale holding the gas and releasing it to come back out of the well w the chemicals.

My concern is what happens if there are natural (unkown) fissures in the rock/earth between the fracking and the surface water table and it becomes contaminated w stuff they won't even disclose to the public? how will they flush that shit out once it's there? What if there's not as much gas as they think is down there? Will they try harder or frack harder to try to get more?.............I know two things for sure, we all need energy and greed cares not for the environment or landowners when there's money to be made.
 
mommucked said:
My concern is what happens if there are natural (unkown) fissures in the rock/earth between the fracking and the surface water table and it becomes contaminated w stuff they won't even disclose to the public?
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You don't see mentioned much about the unmapped old coal shafts and tunnels in the Cumnock area from the Egypt and Coal Glen mines. Nobody even knows where all they run. Full of water now. The "secret" fracking fluid gets into the old mines at any point, and you got millions and millions of gallons of contaminated water that will have to be dealt with.

Related: A buddy that's familiar with the work on the new 421 bypass project (just opened last week) told me about some blasting they did in the area close to Cumnock where the bypass meets old 421. They ran into a ton more brownstone than they figured (somebody screwed up, there used to be a brownstone mine right around there). You know how when you drill and blast, the soil pushes up? On a couple of blasts, the surrounding ground sank. Maybe collapsed an old shaft or tunnel??

Interesting stuff about the mines and Cumnock area history here: http://www.pdhsc.com/egypt_coal_mine.htm
 
kaiser715 said:
You don't see mentioned much about the unmapped old coal shafts and tunnels in the Cumnock area from the Egypt and Coal Glen mines. Nobody even knows where all they run. Full of water now. The "secret" fracking fluid gets into the old mines at any point, and you got millions and millions of gallons of contaminated water that will have to be dealt with.

Related: A buddy that's familiar with the work on the new 421 bypass project (just opened last week) told me about some blasting they did in the area close to Cumnock where the bypass meets old 421. They ran into a ton more brownstone than they figured (somebody screwed up, there used to be a brownstone mine right around there). You know how when you drill and blast, the soil pushes up? On a couple of blasts, the surrounding ground sank. Maybe collapsed an old shaft or tunnel??

Interesting stuff about the mines and Cumnock area history here: http://www.pdhsc.com/egypt_coal_mine.htm
Click to expand...


...I worked for a soil testing company in the eighties and we did the test bores for the BOA building in Charlotte. We drilled 500+' holes and cored the granite rock at the bottom for the foundation design. On one hole the rock corer slipped into a void, apparently hit a sloped rock face and bent the drill rod in the void and we could not pull it back out until we snapped the end off. The only way to know if the bedrock is completely solid where the fracking is going on is if the fracking fluid stays under it, if it doesn't stay down then there's gonna be contamination of the water table.
 
Fracking wells are about two miles deep. Not 500ft.
 
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shawn said:
Fracking wells are about two miles deep. Not 500ft.
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Exactly where the aquifers developed. The best chance of finding gas deposits is just on top of them due to the time frame of the natural plantation sandwiched under the first layers of sedimentation. And how do you explain how the aquifers developed? By the pushing of water down to the very bottom just maybe???:popcorn:

But it will only hurt the aquifers in the Sanford Sub. The rest of us are safe right? :shaking: Until an earthquake is triggered up through the Jonesboro Fault Line directly under MY house. Then I'M going to go OFF on somebody for MY Insurance don't COVER earthquakes...:kaioken:

It just seems common sense to me to leave the basins alone until NC runs out of other energy sources. Or until proven 100% safe.

But it's the ole saying. They won't even let me toot the horn. All I can do is keep shoveling the coal to keep the train a movin'...:beer:
 
I'll be interested to see. I live on Deep River Rd .... and I do find coal in my back yard whenever I'm digging around!
 
Started to type a book, but its pointless.

The more I think about it I agree, we shouldn't frack. The devil might escape hell through the holes and eat all our souls. Y'all win.
 
I don't really have an opinion either way, but Ron could you share your reasons that we should frack? I assume it's for cheap fuel? Jobs?
 
Ron said:
Started to type a book, but its pointless.

The more I think about it I agree, we shouldn't frack. The devil might escape hell through the holes and eat all our souls. Y'all win.
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That's not fair Ron. I gave my thoughts and tried to not type a book to reply to your post as requested. I'm no expert but who is when it comes to fracking N.C.s geology? It has never been done here and I doubt our geology is the same as the areas that have been fracked apparently successfully. I swear I don't want to be an "I told you so" but if this fracking goes wrong it's gonna go very wrong IMO. I'm not sure the risks are worth the damage that may be done and will no doubt be very hard to reverse if that happens.
 
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