Corporate Company wayssssss??

WARRIORWELDING

WARRIORWELDING

Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Location
Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
I say wayyyyyss because of a trend I see.

Long story short. Big ol business, home grown American made. Bought by enormous family of businesseses owned by a European brand. Been a few years since the purchase. As recent a steady decay in.......well things making sense and being replaced by policy and gimmicks. Plenty in place and lots more incoming.

Get used to it? Its normal and will stay profitable? Or, inevitable sinking ship slowly strangled by micromanagement and the latest buzzword management cookie?

Cause it sure is getting........
 
Big corps die from within.

Mainly because they promote to the level of incompetence.

Say you have an employee that starts at the bottom as a broom pusher. He gets promoted to assistant to the supervisor of floor sweepers. He excels, and is promoted to the housekeeping manager. He does fair at that job, and is promoted to the head of janitorial services. He isnt smart enough or able to communicate well enough, or just can't handle all the issues. So, he gets stuck at that level, He will never move up from there. Not kicked back down one level to where he can handle the tasks and responsibilities.

Multiply that by thousands of employees, and you eventually create a whole corporation of people that cannot do their job.


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kaiser715 said:
Big corps die from within.

Mainly because they promote to the level of incompetence.

Say you have an employee that starts at the bottom as a broom pusher. He gets promoted to assistant to the supervisor of floor sweepers. He excels, and is promoted to the housekeeping manager. He does fair at that job, and is promoted to the head of janitorial services. He isnt smart enough or able to communicate well enough, or just can't handle all the issues. So, he gets stuck at that level, He will never move up from there. Not kicked back down one level to where he can handle the tasks and responsibilities.

Multiply that by thousands of employees, and you eventually create a whole corporation of people that cannot do their job.


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And this is where the Peter Principal all started. A person rises to their level of ability and then goes one step beyond, and "Peters Out". But in this day and age they do not get put back to a place of ability or get fired, they stay in the same spot along with everyone else who is in over their heads and then their task is to justify their existence so they can stay employed.
 
I'll say this...Peter Principle is real...but every work place environment has a different brand of bull shit. Some you can stand, some you can't. I've worked with and for the best and worst in a lot of different industries, from fresh start up to billion dollar plants, and lots in between. You're always working for someone and will always dislike something and will always think someone is making a dumbass call. I always tell folks, even my own employees...no one has a gun to your head to be here, if you don't like the way things are done, you're more than welcome to leave. My job is to make money, train you well enough so you can leave, but hope that you don't.
 
I get all the management stuff. What really gets me are all these make the round wheel more "rounderer" gimmicks. That and all these little paper trail data marks to stimulate sustainable progress or any other buzzword.
A whole lot of statisticians running around trying to data to death the fact that product isn't hitting the door. Poor operators, scrap, damaged goods, no material, on and on.....but we need a graph or chart? What happened to addressing issues head on and holding people responsible? Has it become so hard to find help much less fire the ones killing the bottom line?
Another odd trend....hiring managers to over see a operation they cannot perform? Litterally people who cannot up load data or turn the machines on in the correct sequence. Cold callous you didn't hit your numbers people that can't begin to tell you how to improve?
 
I knew it was time to leave my last job when they rolled out transgender benefits but delayed offering paternity leave for another year.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
I don't follow? I'm also going on another 23 hour day...
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companies get larger and common sense and execution of simple tasks get lost in the growth. It’s hard to turn a cruise ship vs a 21’ bay boat is what I meant. Too many ppl to ask if you can turn multiple management levels to get to the Captain etc etc.

People use buzzwords and talk about things like they’ve done them when you know damn well they never have. Hard to eat crow like that for too long.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
I get all the management stuff. What really gets me are all these make the round wheel more "rounderer" gimmicks. That and all these little paper trail data marks to stimulate sustainable progress or any other buzzword.
A whole lot of statisticians running around trying to data to death the fact that product isn't hitting the door. Poor operators, scrap, damaged goods, no material, on and on.....but we need a graph or chart? What happened to addressing issues head on and holding people responsible? Has it become so hard to find help much less fire the ones killing the bottom line?
Another odd trend....hiring managers to over see a operation they cannot perform? Litterally people who cannot up load data or turn the machines on in the correct sequence. Cold callous you didn't hit your numbers people that can't begin to tell you how to improve?
Click to expand...

This can blow up into a significantly larger topic, however...there are a ton of analytics out there that would support retaining a 'bad employee' over starting from scratch...and the impacts that actually has on the bottom line (I generally look at this as to whether it’s an acceptable bottleneck or not). Furthermore, depending on the size of a company, someone's $100k salary might be justified if they're saving fractions of a penny on several billion widgets. I look at businesses in 3 categories, you have your 1) foundational businesses, where any Joe with some logic can make a difference for the better within a business with simple processes and procedures and KPI's. That'll get a business about 80% of the way to unattainable 'perfection'. Then you have that next level of business that really needs to 2) refine the Average Joe's assessments to take the business from 80% attainment to 95% attainment...but that generally takes more knowledge, more analytics, more hoops to jump through and more red tape. And results are usually tougher to get. Then you have the, what I call, the 3) 'cruise control level'...where ultimately a trained monkey could run things because the business actually is running well and hitting on all cylinders. This is where I usually say the business is 'good enough' and outfit the business with qualified 'game managers'...main task, don't screw things up. However, big business, they're looking to squeeze every last penny, and the business has a much smaller window of corrections...but you still have a whole bunch of people that need to justify their job. In my experience, that's usually when you see the tipping point and gimmicky 'Continuous Improvement' efforts becoming the norm.
 
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I mean I am just a peon in the scheme. But it baffles me how convoluted everything seems when compared to what I have also been involved with.
A completely different scope and process from what I have done for years. But 110 employees plus management and support staff is still people doing people stuff.

I worked for many years at a place that manufactured customs fire apparatus from scratch. We used crude equipment compared to this facility. Had a fraction of the employees and turned and burned profit along with easily a 5 million dollar year gross. With 20 or so badass proficient individuals. Now I realize this is arbitrary and I have no clue what the current business numbers are at this location. But we manufacture a basic highly repetitive product on two lines. Two distinct lines, but neither have changed significantly. The product hasn't magicly re engineered itself either......but for the life of me it is a constant struggle and cluster fawk of supply, break down, and personnel issues. The jobs and the related are incredibly basic......even mine. Most often in my capacity a few curve balls arrive but for most of my 52 hours a week I could sleep walk and excell.

I'm just baffled at the 180 degree difference. I guess I'm reaching out because inside it kills me cause I don't feel effective but everybody on my end says, your doin excellent. Inside though my soul says this is the wrong pasture.
 
To a much lesser scale, there's also the argument to be made that 3.5% unemployment is entirely too low...some people just shouldn't be in the work force. Quality of talent is just sub-par...which then typically yields head count bloat because you need two heads to equal one FTE, further amplifying ineffectiveness.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
I'm just baffled at the 180 degree difference. I guess I'm reaching out because inside it kills me cause I don't feel effective but everybody on my end says, your doin excellent. Inside though my soul says this is the wrong pasture.
Click to expand...

I left a job because of that same feeling. The company made it very hard to actually do anything (fixing product problems to stop warranty spending adds nominal cost to a product, which was unacceptable), but everyone loved what I was doing. It was soul-destroying to feel like I wasn't allowed to accomplish anything, but was doing a great job while not accomplishing anything.
 
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WARRIORWELDING said:
I mean I am just a peon in the scheme. But it baffles me how convoluted everything seems when compared to what I have also been involved with.
A completely different scope and process from what I have done for years. But 110 employees plus management and support staff is still people doing people stuff.

I worked for many years at a place that manufactured customs fire apparatus from scratch. We used crude equipment compared to this facility. Had a fraction of the employees and turned and burned profit along with easily a 5 million dollar year gross. With 20 or so badass proficient individuals. Now I realize this is arbitrary and I have no clue what the current business numbers are at this location. But we manufacture a basic highly repetitive product on two lines. Two distinct lines, but neither have changed significantly. The product hasn't magicly re engineered itself either......but for the life of me it is a constant struggle and cluster fawk of supply, break down, and personnel issues. The jobs and the related are incredibly basic......even mine. Most often in my capacity a few curve balls arrive but for most of my 52 hours a week I could sleep walk and excell.

I'm just baffled at the 180 degree difference. I guess I'm reaching out because inside it kills me cause I don't feel effective but everybody on my end says, your doin excellent. Inside though my soul says this is the wrong pasture.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'm taking a break from work. So, I'll make this first response quick.

1. You have been taken over by a large firm that has tasked it's "metrics mafia" to come in and align business processes to their corporate model with the thought that they will increase efficiency without affecting the quality of your product.
2. This is a phase. Without knowing more about the overall corporate culture, I can't say if your company will get crushed with the new data requirements and devolve into a dysfunctional pit of misery or the initial storming phase will normalize to a reasonable status quo.
3. An indicator is the work environment of other subsidiary companies. Are their employees happy and productive? Is the quality of their product still unique and above market standards?
4. If you can shape the input data for the gonculator that the metrics mafia is using, try to get them to focus on three specific outcomes from your work that you say are "gates" to your overall effort. By monitoring and controlling these "gates" they don't have to concern themselves with ensuring you have cover sheets on ALL your TPS reports (sorry for random office space reference).

I hope this helps. Hang in there, the worst time period is the first 90 days because the mafia was given one quarter to establish transition baselines.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
I get all the management stuff. What really gets me are all these make the round wheel more "rounderer" gimmicks. That and all these little paper trail data marks to stimulate sustainable progress or any other buzzword.
A whole lot of statisticians running around trying to data to death the fact that product isn't hitting the door. Poor operators, scrap, damaged goods, no material, on and on.....but we need a graph or chart? What happened to addressing issues head on and holding people responsible? Has it become so hard to find help much less fire the ones killing the bottom line?
Another odd trend....hiring managers to over see a operation they cannot perform? Litterally people who cannot up load data or turn the machines on in the correct sequence. Cold callous you didn't hit your numbers people that can't begin to tell you how to improve?
Click to expand...
Didn’t know you work for AT&T also.
 
@WARRIORWELDING you seem like you have the same work ethics and drive to be the best at what you do. I am right there with you on the spreadsheets and bullshit metrics that big corporations tend to run off of. In my old career I knew I was doing an outstanding job because I was lucky enough to have great upper management that was engaged and rewarded for my hard work. I’m not saying I never failed at anything but when I did it was quickly corrected and never happened again. Upper management did not micro manage or get in your way of progress but were there when needed and always backed you up.

Fast forward to my current career and it’s a total cluster fuck management wise on all levels. You would not believe what metrics a technician at AT&T are expected to achieve to keep off the corporate radar. Keep in mind those metrics are the same for where I work here in the mountains or someone that works where it’s flat and everything is easier.
 
According to the mail system at my work, there are 1,355 'Directors' here. That is globally of course.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
Ok, I'm taking a break from work. So, I'll make this first response quick.

1. You have been taken over by a large firm that has tasked it's "metrics mafia" to come in and align business processes to their corporate model with the thought that they will increase efficiency without affecting the quality of your product.
2. This is a phase. Without knowing more about the overall corporate culture, I can't say if your company will get crushed with the new data requirements and devolve into a dysfunctional pit of misery or the initial storming phase will normalize to a reasonable status quo.
3. An indicator is the work environment of other subsidiary companies. Are their employees happy and productive? Is the quality of their product still unique and above market standards?
4. If you can shape the input data for the gonculator that the metrics mafia is using, try to get them to focus on three specific outcomes from your work that you say artabletes" to your overall effort. By monitoring and controlling these "gates" they don't have to concern themselves with ensuring you have cover sheets on ALL your TPS reports (sorry for random office space reference).

I hope this helps. Hang in there, the worst time period is the first 90 days because the mafia was given one quarter to establish transition baselines.
Click to expand...
That's all stuff I can grasp and lingo I can understand. Makes a lot of sense. I wasn't present for the before merge work environment. Anyone who was swears by a different culture. As for the time table? My guess it has been about 3 years. Each year seems to ramp up on the related topics. As for the other "branches" they are well known and fairly diversified. The big label on the Top of the tree is a Globaly recognized market share for the industry....but my country butt didn't know they existed.
 
obullfish said:
@WARRIORWELDING you seem like you have the same work ethics and drive to be the best at what you do. I am right there with you on the spreadsheets and bullshit metrics that big corporations tend to run off of. In my old career I knew I was doing an outstanding job because I was lucky enough to have great upper management that was engaged and rewarded for my hard work. I’m not saying I never failed at anything but when I did it was quickly corrected and never happened again. Upper management did not micro manage or get in your way of progress but were there when needed and always backed you up.

Fast forward to my current career and it’s a total cluster fuck management wise on all levels. You would not believe what metrics a technician at AT&T are expected to achieve to keep off the corporate radar. Keep in mind those metrics are the same for where I work here in the mountains or someone that works where it’s flat and everything is easier.
Click to expand...
This I can identify with and also deal with the same sort of performance tracking. All skewable by false reporting, and or asking the question of half empty or full prospective.
"How many labor hrs. reported? Vs. How many closed work orders? Or. Number of calls ran? Vs. Work order types?"
All well and good. Yet if it is still broke, not running, or the employee is always busy but aloof, none of that matters.
 
So in discussion, which is the reason I posted.


At the root of all this is the underlying concern of the future. Future being my over all goal was to work for a larger company. One that would offer more training, a learning environment, and a higher plateau to achieve.

Training has been lacking. School, classes, anything formal is non-existent. It is also not supported through schedule, reimbursement, or otherwise. OJT is trial by fire, learn as you go, or we do it this way trickle down nature.

Learning....see above. And note that change is slow to even reversing technology. Current tech is also dated. I learned this trait as I went. By doing personal research and speaking to people from other back grounds what I thought would help leap me into cutting edge has become a great disappointment. Our methods are solid but dated tech. A good foundation. Not a higher ladder.

The ladder would be management at some point. I have made a advancement to a shift lead tech. Higher means plant department manager or first shift lead since they juggle a bit more. The status quo demands of that position do not impresse me. ( edit: in reference to the gimmicky programs, and data pushes) Some of the perceived responsiblities are even less. ( edit: politics and policy over performance) The freedoms and responsibility of running and opperating a full curriculum satilite welding campus was more engaging.
 
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Unfortunately our company is moving slightly in the direction you are experiencing with regard to more written policy's and more productivity logging. In the hiring climate we are in it is inevitable if you have more than a handful of employees today. We have the dumbest workforce I can remember right now. If it isnt perfectly spelled out for folks they fukk it up, even if it's something they were told how to do. We do a lot of business with Walmart and I used to have a lot of disdain for their model and how dumbed down their jobs were, until I started winding up with the same moron employees. Now I appreciate their ability to plug any trained monkey into a position and make it nearly impossible to screw up. They have enough policy's and procedures in place their employees never get to think enough on their own to screw anything up too badly.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
That's all stuff I can grasp and lingo I can understand. Makes a lot of sense. I wasn't present for the before merge work environment. Anyone who was swears by a different culture. As for the time table? My guess it has been about 3 years. Each year seems to ramp up on the related topics. As for the other "branches" they are well known and fairly diversified. The big label on the Top of the tree is a Globaly recognized market share for the industry....but my country butt didn't know they existed.
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I didn't realize this was already at year three.

Anyone there who remembers the pre-assimilation could be tainted with a sense of nostalgia. But the reality is that the corporate culture is pretty well in place. Any additional campaigns to collect or analyze new data are really just the flavor of the month.

If the corporate culture and middle managers are good, you maybe able to trade off new data requirements by killing old ones or having automated systems collect the info vs. requiring people to take time during or at the end of the day filling out logs.

But overall, the corporate collection of data isn't going anywhere. It won't get worse necessarily, but don't expect someone to wakeup and purge half the reporting requirements and magically operate at "The Speed of Trust."

As for employee development programs and having state of the art equipment, keep in mind that companies operate at economies of scale. So, they often field main stream proven technology that can be fielded to common units and follow life cycle replacement plans. Unless you get assigned to their lead tech/skunk works division you won't be on the cutting edge. Same goes for emerging training programs.
 
awheelterd said:
Unfortunately our company is moving slightly in the direction you are experiencing with regard to more written policy's and more productivity logging. In the hiring climate we are in it is inevitable if you have more than a handful of employees today. We have the dumbest workforce I can remember right now. If it isnt perfectly spelled out for folks they fukk it up, even if it's something they were told how to do. We do a lot of business with Walmart and I used to have a lot of disdain for their model and how dumbed down their jobs were, until I started winding up with the same moron employees. Now I appreciate their ability to plug any trained monkey into a position and make it nearly impossible to screw up. They have enough policy's and procedures in place their employees never get to think enough on their own to screw anything up too badly.
Click to expand...
The concept of spelling everything out and having generic metrics for everything also allows these companies to interchange managers. They can take a manager from the widget production division and make them the regional manager of distribution for widgets and they just have to follow the corporate culture, read the policies, and track the metrics. If the manager has any actual leadership, they will go down and learn what the metrics and policies are actually affecting. But they might just run the show from their desk.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
The concept of spelling everything out and having generic metrics for everything also allows these companies to interchange managers. They can take a manager from the widget production division and make them the regional manager of distribution for widgets and they just have to follow the corporate culture, read the policies, and track the metrics. If the manager has any actual leadership, they will go down and learn what the metrics and policies are actually affecting. But they might just run the show from their desk.
Click to expand...
This statement actually explains the "whole nut". Hits the nail on the head. Was actually the very discussion I had with a department manager. His words were not as simplistic. Read: Jargon. I heard more of another term.....lol.
 
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