Cummins Fuel Saving Techology (Not Tech, for Discussion)

Benjie

Benjie

It's a Toyota thing...
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Raleigh
For the lazy...

LOUISVILLE, KY. Two divisions of Cummins Inc. are showing off some new products as well as enhancements to current offerings here at the 2013 Mid America Trucking Show.
Cummins Turbo Technologies unveiled a suite of near-market and future solutions capable of improving the fuel efficiency of any modern diesel engine by at least 6% – gains enabled by the shift from emissions-driven developments toward solutions that prioritize fuel economy, said Mark Firth, executive director-product line management and marketing.
“The industry has now reached the tipping point at which global engine and vehicle manufacturers are developing products designed to insulate customers from rising fuel prices,” he explained.
Among the technologies Cummins Turbo will display at Mid America are:
  • A Waste Heat Turbine Expander prototype that captures what would otherwise be lost energy in the form of heat, from a number of sources onboard the vehicle, and turns it into useful mechanical 34 hp power capable of reducing vehicle fuel consumption by 5% and delivering fuel savings of up to $5,500 per year.
  • A next-generation VGT Turbocharger based on a validated platform that is 4.4 lbs. lighter than the model it replaces.
  • An inverse impeller that replaces conventional designs and, through the use of flow optimization software, can improve compressor stage efficiency by 1% on its own – delivering $160 per year in fuel savings for on-highway applications.
  • A “super map” width enhancement collar that enhances map width by 15% and facilitates engine downsizing, improves driveability, widens the operating range, aids efficiency mapping and delivers fuel savings.
  • New rolling element bearings that improves both transient response and lowers fuel consumption, delivering a 1% improvement in overall turbocharger efficiency.
  • A new Holset Rotary Turbine Control (RTC) with patented flow-channeling technology that directs exhaust gas to selected ports, for limited exhaust control capability. RTC is integrated into the turbine housing within Cummins Turbo’s Modulated 2-stage (M2) and Serial 2-stage (S2) products.
Firth added that the trend towards downsizing – which sees engine and vehicle manufacturers aiming to maintain or increase the power outputs from their products while making them smaller and lighter – is driving most of those developments.
Cummins Emission Solutions is showing off the proprietary design of the spray nozzle on the EcoFit UL2 Liquid-Only Urea Dosing System at Mid America; a design that offers improved “atomization” of urea while also offering freeze-robust components to allow for optimal pump-priming and the prevention of crystallization throughout the unit.
Following the acquisition of Hilite International’s Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) division in July 2012, Cummins Emission’s added the UL2 system to its engineered-components portfolio.
Zach Gillen, the division’s GM of engineered noted that the system’s dosing nozzle provides improved oxides of nitrogen (NOx) conversion efficiency rates through urea droplet sizes unrivaled by those of competitive airless systems. Thus with droplet sizes comparable to those of air-assisted systems, the likelihood of urea droplets in the “decomposition reactor” is significantly reduced, he said.
“By offering freeze robustness, urea can remain in the system at all times, even during freeze events,” Gillen explained. “Keeping urea in the system prevents crystallization and clogging, eliminates the need for power at key-off for purging, allows quicker dosing at key-on and prevents damage to the system during intentional or unintentional power interruption of the vehicle.”
 
My K30 on 38s with a 6BT can get 22mpg. It's apparently fairly efficient and burning less fuel means I'm making less "pollution", right?

I'm sure they know that choking these motors with all of the emissions crap just makes them burn more fuel. If it puts out twice as many emissions and gets half the mileage, wouldn't it be better to get twice the mileage with less overall output of emissions? With that efficiency, more so with a diesel, comes mileage and power, to a certain extent.

They came up with DPF filters...lovely. It just keeps the visual soot from coming out of the tail pipe. When it does a re-gen, does it not still get burnt and released in to the atmosphere?


Maybe common sense doesn't apply to EPA standards :D
 
Croatan_Kid said:
They came up with DPF filters...lovely. It just keeps the visual soot from coming out of the tail pipe. When it does a re-gen, does it not still get burnt and released in to the atmosphere?


Maybe common sense doesn't apply to EPA standards :D
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Kinda my thoughts too. I haven't done much studying on it, but seems like a backwards way of doing things to get the same end result.
 
I am an exhaust system engineer at Volvo Trucks. Diesel trucks have made huge improvements in pollution over the past 10-15 years. EGR was implemented in 2002, DPF's were added in 2007, and SCR units were added in 2010. Fuel mileage has actually increased over the past few years, especially through improved powertrain management with the engine and automatic transmissions.
 
drkelly said:
I am an exhaust system engineer at Volvo Trucks. Diesel trucks have made huge improvements in pollution over the past 10-15 years.
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STFU... you don't know what you're talking about.






:flipoff2:
 
Croatan_Kid said:
My K30 on 38s with a 6BT can get 22mpg. It's apparently fairly efficient and burning less fuel means I'm making less "pollution", right?

I'm sure they know that choking these motors with all of the emissions crap just makes them burn more fuel. If it puts out twice as many emissions and gets half the mileage, wouldn't it be better to get twice the mileage with less overall output of emissions? With that efficiency, more so with a diesel, comes mileage and power, to a certain extent.

They came up with DPF filters...lovely. It just keeps the visual soot from coming out of the tail pipe. When it does a re-gen, does it not still get burnt and released in to the atmosphere?


Maybe common sense doesn't apply to EPA standards :D
Click to expand...

No...Its fun, cool and macho to to poo poo on emissions and all the cool kid rip the cats off anyway, right?

A modern Tier4 compliant engine will reduce as much NOx, SOx, C2O2, CO2, and PM aftre buring 100 gallons of fuel as a 2000 model would release on 6 gallons of fuel. Let that sink in for a second.

In highly polluted areas of China, we are actually cleaning the air by running a diesel engine.

To your specific question regarding regen, regen occurs at a much higher temp and the carbon actually burns and is released not a PM but as viable gaseous molecules.

The thing is, Cummins uses an 11 stage development process. These above designs are in stage 9...means they are very likely to see the light of day. You should see some of the stuff in stage 3-4...

I think the thing that bothers me the most, is how "our group" outdoor enthusiasts have changed so much.
It was just a few decades ago the the "good ole boys" were the ones bithcin' about industrial creep, and the net effect on the environment, now in the sake of selfishness we are trying to vilify those trying to make this planet sustainable for the rest of us.

I dont get.

"Did you ever stop and think about the air your breathin'"
RVZ
 
Ron said:
No...Its fun, cool and macho to to poo poo on emissions and all the cool kid rip the cats off anyway, right?

A modern Tier4 compliant engine will reduce as much NOx, SOx, C2O2, CO2, and PM aftre buring 100 gallons of fuel as a 2000 model would release on 6 gallons of fuel. Let that sink in for a second.

In highly polluted areas of China, we are actually cleaning the air by running a diesel engine.

To your specific question regarding regen, regen occurs at a much higher temp and the carbon actually burns and is released not a PM but as viable gaseous molecules.

The thing is, Cummins uses an 11 stage development process. These above designs are in stage 9...means they are very likely to see the light of day. You should see some of the stuff in stage 3-4...

I think the thing that bothers me the most, is how "our group" outdoor enthusiasts have changed so much.
It was just a few decades ago the the "good ole boys" were the ones bithcin' about industrial creep, and the net effect on the environment, now in the sake of selfishness we are trying to vilify those trying to make this planet sustainable for the rest of us.

I dont get.

"Did you ever stop and think about the air your breathin'"
RVZ
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Well I tell you what I have a 2012 Dodge with the clean idle crap that you are speaking of that is supposed to get so great of fuel mileage but here is the truth. 6.4 miles to the gallon weighing in at only 23,000 lbs loaded. Here is another fact we traded in a truck that got twice that pulling the same weight. Now for the ones that believe that the exhaust produced by this truck is cleaner than what you breathe then I will buy all the diesel fuel and pee pee in a bottle hook the exhaust up to a enclosed hood with you in it and breath only that air, then lets talk. Talk about global warming a truck that produces that much heat out of the exhaust is really good for the environment come on now who is fooling who.
 
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Landcruzn said:
Well I tell you what I have a 2012 Dodge with the clean idle crap that you are speaking of that is supposed to get so great of fuel mileage but here is the truth. 6.4 miles to the gallon weighing in at only 23,000 lbs loaded. Here is another fact we traded in a truck that got twice that pulling the same weight. Now for the ones that believe that the exhaust produced by this truck is cleaner than what you breathe then I will buy all the diesel fuel and pee pee in a bottle hook the exhaust up to a enclosed hood with you in it and breath only that air, then lets talk. Talk about global warming a truck that produces that much heat out of the exhaust is really good for the environment come on now who is fooling who.
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I shouldnt even bother with a response, but I will.
First just saying my last truck got x miles to the gallon and my new one gets Y doesnt tell us anything. We dont know gear ratio, trans ratio, tire size, final drive ratio etc. We also dont know if the ne truck rides better and now you are running faster etc.

All that said...remember Dodge s a whole accounts for just over 2% of the engines Cummins sells worldwide. You are also comparing a 5.9 liter engine to a 6.7 liter engine of an entirely different design. Really this isnt fair to the motor. The 6.7 isnt an econo engine in any form. Try the new V in he 1500 next year and enjoy35 mpg.


BTW if you think hot exhaust has any input to global warming...well then I cant help you any further in this conversation.
 
Ron said:
I shouldnt even bother with a response, but I will.
First just saying my last truck got x miles to the gallon and my new one gets Y doesnt tell us anything. We dont know gear ratio, trans ratio, tire size, final drive ratio etc. We also dont know if the ne truck rides better and now you are running faster etc.

All that said...remember Dodge s a whole accounts for just over 2% of the engines Cummins sells worldwide. You are also comparing a 5.9 liter engine to a 6.7 liter engine of an entirely different design. Really this isnt fair to the motor. The 6.7 isnt an econo engine in any form. Try the new V in he 1500 next year and enjoy35 mpg.


BTW if you think hot exhaust has any input to global warming...well then I cant help you any further in this conversation.
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Jody just got owned.
 
Ron said:
The thing is, Cummins uses an 11 stage development process. These above designs are in stage 9...means they are very likely to see the light of day. You should see some of the stuff in stage 3-4...
Click to expand...

Ron, elaborate on some of the 3-4 stuff please! Would love to hear some of the designs pushing the envelope. You got anything...'net links?

auto-corrected against my will!
 
redneckcj5guy said:
Jody just got owned.
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he still doesnt want to breath in the exhaust since it is so clean. Oh and it was a 07 dodge 5.9 with ia g56 transmission geared 4:10. The new truck is geared 4:40 something with the aisin auto tranny in it. As far as the ride the old truck rides better and drives like a dodge as for the new truck it rides like shit and still drives like a dodge. The new truck is governed at a lower speed and still sucks as far as pulling against the other truck. Now tell me how this is going to cut a trucks fuel mileage in half, oh yeah choke it to death and make it run hotter temperatures yes that is a great idea. I have already had built diesels and stock diesels and the built ones always have much better fuel economy and has actually given less trouble. You can set there and sell all that EPA crap to people that will believe it but in the end I still bet you will not live in the fumes that the truck produces.
 
Benjie said:
Ron, elaborate on some of the 3-4 stuff please! Would love to hear some of the designs pushing the envelope. You got anything...'net links?

auto-corrected against my will!
Click to expand...
Nothing I can really share and nothing I know enough about to talk intelligently about, but just some concepts I've heard we're crazy. Purified water being a product of combustion, ridiculously high pressure for improved atomization...I'm talking in excess of 200k psi....rumor of some crazy hybrid turbo/supercharger electric hybrid combination.
 
Landcruzn said:
he still doesnt want to breath in the exhaust since it is so clean. Oh and it was a 07 dodge 5.9 with ia g56 transmission geared 4:10. The new truck is geared 4:40 something with the aisin auto tranny in it. As far as the ride the old truck rides better and drives like a dodge as for the new truck it rides like shit and still drives like a dodge. The new truck is governed at a lower speed and still sucks as far as pulling against the other truck. Now tell me how this is going to cut a trucks fuel mileage in half, oh yeah choke it to death and make it run hotter temperatures yes that is a great idea. I have already had built diesels and stock diesels and the built ones always have much better fuel economy and has actually given less trouble. You can set there and sell all that EPA crap to people that will believe it but in the end I still bet you will not live in the fumes that the truck produces.
Click to expand...

Wow.
Ok, combustion consumes oxygen. (it's required for fire) therefor exhaust emission is sady lacking in oxygen. So no, I can't "live in the fumes" I'd suffocate.

I'm never going to convince you, you are smarter than 10,000 chemical, mechanical and biological engineers. You have driven a modded diesel.

I promise you Cummins didn't beg the EPA to cost them 3 billion in research to date since 03, they were given the mandate of what benchmark to hit and just like every time since Clessie started it they hit and surpassed the benchmark. Look I don't like change either. When I was a boy grandpa had a backhoe, we dug a big pit on the farm and threw all the trash in the pit. When we changed the oil in the equipment we dumped t all over the pit and burned the trash. It's been 30 years, you still can't grow grass on that 3/4 acre.
My point?
Humans are highly productive but we are real good at killing ourselves. You breathe air every minutes every day, if you don't think air pollution increases the incidence rate of cancer and other ailments, explain the relevant ratios between the industrialized world and Ethiopia for example.

This isn't about melting glaciers, sweating penguins or any other cute cuddly feel good bullshit. It's simply good stewardship, if we can reduce our impact in a reasonable manner we should do so.

Finally, you auto sucks up about 18% of your power output when not in lockup 13 when in lock.
Your gear ratio sucks for highway driving and has you a good 850 rpm out of the power band of that engine. The new truck weighs almost 800 lbs more in the same cab configuration. If its speed governed,,that's a personal/commercial decision not the fault of the engine. If you really care we can pull consumption curves against Rpms and then do the math with the relative final drive ratios and see what the difference "should" be...then if it is truly way different you can have it checked out you may have an issue with your engine.
 
I can certainly agree that diesels have improved tenfold since my lowly VE engine was produced. With a measley 255 bar pop pressure on my injectors, it's certain that there is a lot left to be desired in concerns to atomization of fuel, a little power, and to be sure, output emissions. The 03 & up common rails are what...something like 32k psi? Quite a jump! Just with that change in fuel pressure comes so many changes in what is left over after the combustion cycle occurs, I would venture to guess.

Ron, I certainly wasn't advocating the removal or modification of emissions control items nor was I trying to be a richard about it :D

I DID learn a few things though. I knew that a regen burned off the collected soot/carbon and I knew it did so at a high temperature, but I didn't know it was so high that it more or less vaporized the collected matter in the DPF. Pretty cool. Does it have any affect on longevity of the engine? I've heard it consumes quite a bit of fuel during a regen too. I'd assume that it is fairly well burnt as well, correct? I've never owned and probably couldn't afford a truck new enough to have a DPF, so I wouldn't know. I also agree that humans are quite destructive and we seem to forget that everything we do is going in to the same air we breath. You also mentioned cats. I know their function of a gas engine, but how do they compare on a diesel? Is there still the same conversion of harmful gasses to CO2 and H2O? I would guess so. I think the confusion comes from the gas applications using pre and post oxygen sensors in conjuction with the cats.

The mentions of 200k psi injection pressures intrigues me. The engine and fuel system would have to be built like a brick sh!thouse though! The idea of supplementary low end boost is a great idea too. If you can get instant boost, it would really help out. If it were set up to work only at lower rpms and then have a bypass of sorts once the turbo picked up, I think it would be awesome.


I also like what drkelly said. It's crazy to see the kind of improvements there have been with powertrain/drivetrain management. Not so many years ago an automatic transmission was a 4spd and that was pretty much it. Now it's not uncommon to see manufacturers advertising 7 or 8 speeds. With the improved ability to keep engines in their desired efficiency ranges, we can net better fuel mileage. I suppose that, combined with the much cleaner EPA standards, will produce great things for the automotive industry.

On a somewhat related note: Does anyone else see that manual transmissions are becoming a thing of the past? I think it's pretty sad.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
I can certainly agree that diesels have improved tenfold since my lowly VE engine was produced. With a measley 255 bar pop pressure on my injectors, it's certain that there is a lot left to be desired in concerns to atomization of fuel, a little power, and to be sure, output emissions. The 03 & up common rails are what...something like 32k psi? Quite a jump! Just with that change in fuel pressure comes so many changes in what is left over after the combustion cycle occurs, I would venture to guess.

Ron, I certainly wasn't advocating the removal or modification of emissions control items nor was I trying to be a richard about it :D

I DID learn a few things though. I knew that a regen burned off the collected soot/carbon and I knew it did so at a high temperature, but I didn't know it was so high that it more or less vaporized the collected matter in the DPF. Pretty cool. Does it have any affect on longevity of the engine? I've heard it consumes quite a bit of fuel during a regen too. I'd assume that it is fairly well burnt as well, correct? I've never owned and probably couldn't afford a truck new enough to have a DPF, so I wouldn't know. I also agree that humans are quite destructive and we seem to forget that everything we do is going in to the same air we breath. You also mentioned cats. I know their function of a gas engine, but how do they compare on a diesel? Is there still the same conversion of harmful gasses to CO2 and H2O? I would guess so. I think the confusion comes from the gas applications using pre and post oxygen sensors in conjuction with the cats.

The mentions of 200k psi injection pressures intrigues me. The engine and fuel system would have to be built like a brick sh!thouse though! The idea of supplementary low end boost is a great idea too. If you can get instant boost, it would really help out. If it were set up to work only at lower rpms and then have a bypass of sorts once the turbo picked up, I think it would be awesome.


I also like what drkelly said. It's crazy to see the kind of improvements there have been with powertrain/drivetrain management. Not so many years ago an automatic transmission was a 4spd and that was pretty much it. Now it's not uncommon to see manufacturers advertising 7 or 8 speeds. With the improved ability to keep engines in their desired efficiency ranges, we can net better fuel mileage. I suppose that, combined with the much cleaner EPA standards, will produce great things for the automotive industry.

On a somewhat related note: Does anyone else see that manual transmissions are becoming a thing of the past? I think it's pretty sad.
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DPF exhaust gas regereration typically happens at about 500-600°C. It depends on the total emissions strategy of the engine. US07 regen temps were higher than US10 regen temps on our trucks. For 2016, the temp will go back up. With regards to engine longevity, I believe the oil change intervals were reduced starting in 2007, but that is not my area. Total fuel used for regeneration depends on the emissions strategy again, but it has never been higher than 3% since 2007. When the SCR was added in 2010, many highway trucks did not require active regeneration. They would go through what is called passive regeneration, meaning the DPF would get hot enough during normal driving (climbing a grade) to burn off the soot without the addition of diesel fuel from the 7th injector. Back pressure has increased in the exhaust system. Prior to 2007 when the use of hte DPF began, the maximum back pressure typically seen in the exhaust system was about 6kpa. Today it ranges from 20-35kpa depending on the system design and DPF filter loading.

Here are the basics of what is happening in a modern diesel exhaust system. The DPF collects the soot, and burns it off so the PM (particulate matter, ie SOOT) is not put out into the atmosphere. The PM is very harmful to our health. The SCR unit injects urea into the exhaust stream to convert NOx to N2 and H2O.

Similar to autos, diesel trucks have NOx sensors in the outlet of the SCR unit. For 2016, it looks like we will probably have a NOx sensor, ammonia sensor, and a PM sensor in the outlet of the EATS unit.
 
Damn....10 mpg?! That's pretty badass.
 
My boss was at the Mid America Truck Show yesterday and brought some information back for us to look at. There was a Cummins brochure with some information that I thought folks would like to see so I scanned it in.

Cummins brochure.jpg
 
Here is a blow up of the last part.

Emissions change.jpg
 
And the change fron 07 to 10/13 (nsps ci tier4f) if putting us into a weird world in industrial applications where frequently the emission system costs more than the engine.
 
When the emission equipment in the exhaust fails its going to cost an arm and leg to buy the replacement parts. just look at a O2 sensor 100 to 200 a piece and there is usually 2 in a exhaust system.
All of these sensors on any vehicle you own cause most of the problems in the vehicle whether it is the gas peddle or O2 sensors.
 
hmtrunner said:
When the emission equipment in the exhaust fails its going to cost an arm and leg to buy the replacement parts. just look at a O2 sensor 100 to 200 a piece and there is usually 2 in a exhaust system.
All of these sensors on any vehicle you own cause most of the problems in the vehicle whether it is the gas peddle or O2 sensors.
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You think a O2 sensor is high try buying a dpf system. Ours only has 55,000 miles and is giving trouble. It will probably conveniently go out right past the warranty. What a joke
 
You talking about a Bully Dog system?
 
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