Dana 60 Steering Help

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
Didn't get to work on the jeep today as planned. Woke up to a water leak under the kitchen sink and had 1/2" -3/4" water in the first floor of our house.

On the bright side, we did get to mop and thoroughly vacuum the entire down stairs today....

Nothing like doing your day job on your day off.

It was a blessing that we were at home, and our parents were able to come and help.
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
Compression fitting on the hot water line to the sink ran out of talent and gave up.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1422139509.458676.jpg
 

drkelly

Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
Drkelly..you didn't have any issues with running that set up?
Seems like it would weaken the tube in the area where you drilled the hole...
This is exactly what it looks like I need to do ...I've got jeep so low that there isn't enough clearance for the tie rod when it's on top of the high steer arm...soooo

It never failed, and has taken a lot of abuse since the tie rod is so low. The tie rod is only slightly higher than the bottom of the axle tube. I welded the bolt to the tie rod on both sides of the tie rod tube.
 

fordtrucknut

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
bedford va
Ok thanks ..it looks like I'm going to try it..I have some 2 inch dom so I think I'm going to sleeve the area where the bolt will be with 2 inch for some added strength
 

OnlyOneDR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Location
R
That's backwards.
"Ideal" Ackerman would be a line drawn from the center of the rear axle through the kingpin centerline. The tie rod mounts would need to be somewhere on this imaginary line. If the tie rod mounts are in front of the axle, and inward from the king pin centerline, then the Ackerman is backwards. The farther you turn, the outside tire would turn at a greater angle than the inside tire. "Ideal" Ackerman is the inside tire turns a higher angle than the outside.

Most high steer arms that are advertised as "correct" Ackerman, really just move closer to zero Ackerman, where both tires turn equal amounts.

IIRC, the stock tie rod mount is the same distance from the king pin centerline but closer to the rotor. I'll check this weekend. If that is the case, the stock mounts would have closer to no Ackerman angle than the ballistic arms.

Yep, you got me. I had it backwards in my head. The arms that have "corrected" Ackerman move the tie-rod mounting points out from center line. Looking closer at the ones I previously posted it looks like it also brings the tie-rod in closer to the kingpin steering axis and probably making packaging the steering under the truck more difficult.
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
I checked my axle and the factory steering stops were in the location for maximum angle with stock shafts. The pass side stop was at 5/8" out and driver side 11/16" out. This allowed me to have 36 degrees of steering comfortable before the ujoint binds. The ecgs chromo shafts and spicer joints bind at 38 degrees.

Tie rod travel at 36 degree steering is 7.5". My 8" travel hydro ram is capable of 7.5" travel.

So after many options and mock ups of different combinations and setups led to either a 8.75" long Pittman arm with the drag link in the forward hole on the high steer arms, or mount the drag link to tie rod and have a 6.5" long Pittman arm.

The stock astro van arm is 6.25" and a stock waggy arm is 6.875".

Unfortunately a 8.75" Pittman arm exceeds the angular misalignment of both a tre and a 7/8" heim joint.

Next I looked at mounting the drag link on top of the tie rod on the pass steering arm, and using a 6.5" long Pittman arm.

This would work, but would be quite involved in making the pass side arm double shear, requiring a 6" long bolt, to go through the high steer arm and two heims.

As well the drag link would be far from parallel to the ground and would have clearance issues at full bump with the frame.

So I decided to make a clamp to mount the drag link to the tie rod. This would also allow me to use a 6.5" long Pittman arm and still have 36 degree steering.

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My next concern is that with now using heims on the steering that the tie rod would rock up and down creating a clearance issue between the drag link mount and the pass leaf spring.

I took some polyurethane shock bushings and cut them in half and squeezed them between the heim and the misalignment spacers as a wobble stopper.

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Finished making the new Pittman arm as well.

Cut up a stock yj arm and welded it to some plate and made it to mount a heim in double shear.

Also cut out the double spline area by first cutting a line in the center with a hack saw blade, and then used a triangle file to make 4 new splines.

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Hope to finish getting it all back together tomorrow.
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
Got everything together and now the diameter of the circle my jeep can turn is now 25 feet.

My fiancés stock yj is 19 ft and some change.

My avalanche turns a 26 foot circle.

Definitely notable progress increasing the steering angle from 21 to 36.

I did notice the rear is still pushing the front some.

Hopefully in two weeks I will be picking up a 4.10 carrier to swap my Detroit into, and getting all that swapped over to quantify the difference again.


Here are a couple pictures of how I set my toe in at 1/4 without help.

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paradisePWoffrd

Recovering Project Junkie
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Location
Newton, NC
Do those bushings add much resistance when trying to turn?

Might could try using the heims without misalignment washers on tierod. There shouldn't be much angular travel in those joints. Bushings are basically doing the same thing, but they might wear quick being compressed like that
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
Do those bushings add much resistance when trying to turn?

Might could try using the heims without misalignment washers on tierod. There shouldn't be much angular travel in those joints. Bushings are basically doing the same thing, but they might wear quick being compressed like that

Didn't add any noticeable resistance when turning when it was on jack stands and pushing the tie rod by hand.

I'm running safety misalignment on the tie rod heims. Even if I run no misalignment spacers I will still need some type of bushings to keep the heim centered to the washers and prevent flopping when the ram/drag link pushes.

Plan on keeping a couple extra in the jeep for wear and they are cheap. If they wear too fast or are too soft I will turn down some delrin for a better fit.

If it comes to that I may remove the misalignment spacers, so thank you for that idea.

I will then need to burn some thicker spacers to put between the heim and high steer arm to keep the clearance between the drag link mount and leaf spring.
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Banned Twice Already
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Newton NC
Wow..so much useful info on this steering stuff..
I'm very interested in your 38degree steering turn radius reference...how do I figure this out so I don't worry about binding my new joints..my current steering stoppers seem to be out around 7/8 I think..will double check. I've always turned wheel all the way, spun axle and made sure there was close to heavy 1/16" clearance...seemed to work perfect on my last 44s with only breaking one axle after hammering down all day. Thanks for any input on this
 

Mac5005

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Location
Rocky Mount
Wow..so much useful info on this steering stuff..
I'm very interested in your 38degree steering turn radius reference...how do I figure this out so I don't worry about binding my new joints..my current steering stoppers seem to be out around 7/8 I think..will double check. I've always turned wheel all the way, spun axle and made sure there was close to heavy 1/16" clearance...seemed to work perfect on my last 44s with only breaking one axle after hammering down all day. Thanks for any input on this


Jack up front axle,, run the steering stops in, spin tire by hand.

Turn wheel with tire spinning, you can feel/see when it's binding.

When it binds it will push the tire slightly straighter. Be it's low speed with no load, won't hurt anything.

Run the steering stops back out until you turn with no bind.


You can also take a flashlight and look in the knuckle, or put playdoh on the axle ears to verify clearance. You can see when they bind, it's literally an interference.

Run the stops out so it doesn't occur with load and speed, and you've got max angle your axle will handle.

You may have to remove drag link to allow the tie rod to travel farther than normal to even reach the bind point.

This has to do with the difference in length from tie rod to ball joint center line and the length of the Pittman arm. Also has to do with the angular throw of the steering box and the angle of the steering.

Ex, the steering box turns 90 degrees but the axle is only capable of 35 degrees each way. That's why your Pittman arm needs to be shorter than the distance from the ball joint centerline to the tie rod mounting hole.
 

marty79

Well-Known Member
Banned Twice Already
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Location
Newton NC
Jack up front axle,, run the steering stops in, spin tire by hand.

Turn wheel with tire spinning, you can feel/see when it's binding.

When it binds it will push the tire slightly straighter. Be it's low speed with no load, won't hurt anything.

Run the steering stops back out until you turn with no bind.


You can also take a flashlight and look in the knuckle, or put playdoh on the axle ears to verify clearance. You can see when they bind, it's literally an interference.

Run the stops out so it doesn't occur with load and speed, and you've got max angle your axle will handle.

You may have to remove drag link to allow the tie rod to travel farther than normal to even reach the bind point.

This has to do with the difference in length from tie rod to ball joint center line and the length of the Pittman arm. Also has to do with the angular throw of the steering box and the angle of the steering.

Ex, the steering box turns 90 degrees but the axle is only capable of 35 degrees each way. That's why your Pittman arm needs to be shorter than the distance from the ball joint centerline to the tie rod mounting hole.
Got it. Thank you sir. Even I can't screw this up lol
 

jeepinmatt

At least half the people are dumber than the rest
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Location
Stanley, NC

a_kelley

mechanical fixer
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Location
Rutherfordton
Here are a couple pictures of how I set my toe in at 1/4 without help.

View attachment 183716

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I clamp a level directly to the rotor with tire wheel removed. Wheels get bent. Rotors typically are pretty true. I set at 3/32" @ 2ft from center. Close enough that it passed laser alignment without adjustment on the wife's zj.
 
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