Decision time: D30/8.8 vs D44/8.8 vs D60/8.8 vs D60/D60

jeepinmatt

jeepinmatt

#1 WEBWHEELER
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Mar 24, 2005
Location
Stanley, NC
Just sold the wheels and tires off my jeep, and before I go and buy new wheels, I need to figure out what direction I'm going with the axles. My D30 is decently setup (cromo's, Teraflex hi steer, lunchbox locker, HD ball joints, some type of uber U-joint, 4.88's, Solid cover), and the 8.8 is basically stock with 4.88's, Solid cover, lunchbox locker. Here's my pros and cons, so tell me what I'm missing and add your collective wisdom.

D30/8.8 ($0/$0)
PROS:
-No work required
-No cost to upgrade
-Matching bolt pattern
-Lightest combo
CONS:
-Stock width (I prefer full width)
-D30 limits to ~35" tire
-8.8 needs different locker for street use (I hate the way it drives with the lunchbox)

D44/8.8
PROS:
-Bolt in D44 options
-Matching bolt pattern
-Potentially wider track (Ford HP D44 or similar)
-Lighter than D60
-Best overall ground clearance if I run 37-38's
-Matching bolt pattern
CONS:
-Limits to a 37-38" tire
-Heavier than D30/8.8
-~$2000 cost (offset by selling D30)
-Potentially stock width
-If wider D44 front, then 8.8 will have spacers/adapters
-Time and effort to build D44

D60/8.8
PROS:
-Full Width
-Heavy
-Plenty of strength for 37-38's
-Unlimited options for steering/gearing/lockers
CONS:
-Heavier than D44/8.8
-Diminished Ground Clearance
-~$2500-3000 cost (offset ~$800 by selling D30)
-8.8 will have adapter spacers
-Time and effort to build D60
-Packaging issues (I've done it before, so I at least know what to expect)

Superduty D60/Superduty D60 (both steering)
PROS:
-Full Width
-Extra Heavy
-Plenty of strength for 37-38's
-Unlimited options for steering/gearing/lockers
-Interchangeable parts
-4 wheel steering
-Cool factor
-Low COG (1/3 of the vehicle weight would be the axles!)
CONS:
-Heavier than pretty much everything
-Diminished Ground Clearance
-~$8000 cost (offset ~$1600 by selling D30/8.8/NP231)
-Time and effort to build D60's
-Packaging issues
-Driveshaft issues
-Hydro steering issues


It seems to me the D44/8.8 would be the best overall option if I only plan to run 37-38's, leaning towards 37" Creepy Crawlers at this time. D60's would be more future proof though. Since i already have a pair of 5x4.5 to 8x6.5 spacer/adapters, I could go with a full width 8 lug D44 front, and use the spacers to widen the 8.8 to about 65-66". Would a 31 spline 8.8 hold up well to a 4.6 stroker, 100:1 crawl ratio, and 38" Creepys?
 
I paid $400 for my 04 Superduty 60 and matching sterling 10.5. Stronger knuckles than kingpin. No company makes upgraded knuckles or ball joints because nobody has ever broken one. Yeah, they're 8 on 170 but screw it. Factory wheels from 16"-20" are readily available for cheap. Steel and aluminum. Sterling has factory disc brakes.. Most of this you already know.

Balling on a budget.
 
I believe you need to decide what Max tire size will be, & How your gonna use it! For what it's worth, 44s / 44 & 9 / 44 & 60.
Then there's always Rock Jock & Multiple others that will accept your CC! :lol:
 
Decide on how hard you want to wheel, what kinda terrain (are you gonna stick to east coast wheeling or venture out to the west coast), then a tire size, then wheelbase and then set your belly height off of that. Stock wheelbase TJ on 37s gets pretty hairy on steep climbs.

Edit: and if you want road drive ability is something to consider too
 
Is it going to get wheeled or just crawl curbs with big tires? 44/9-8.8 built right could handle 38's and hard wheeling. 60's and you don't have to think about what you're doing so much. I just want to know how much it's going to pain you to put tons BACK under that thing:flipoff2:
 
XJsavage said:
I paid $400 for my 04 Superduty 60 and matching sterling 10.5. Stronger knuckles than kingpin. No company makes upgraded knuckles or ball joints because nobody has ever broken one. Yeah, they're 8 on 170 but screw it. Factory wheels from 16"-20" are readily available for cheap. Steel and aluminum. Sterling has factory disc brakes.. Most of this you already know.

Balling on a budget.
Click to expand...
Well aware :D I can get 2 superduty 60s for the price a 1 kingpin 60. The cost is in hydro steering/gears/locker. Also I don't have 8x170 adapters, so I'd have to do both front and rear at the $ame time.

VortecJeep said:
Doesn't the 8.8 have c-clips? So that is another con.
How about a HP44/9" combo? That's my setup and they're full-width.
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Yes, 8.8 is c-clip, but that doesn't really bother me. Since its disc brake, the wheel/shaft won't wander out of a shaft breaks. And since it will only sit in the garage, likelihood of breaking a shaft is very low. I don't see enough benefit going from a stock 8.8 to a stock 9" to justify the cost and effort.
 
rodney eppes said:
I believe you need to decide what Max tire size will be, & How your gonna use it! For what it's worth, 44s / 44 & 9 / 44 & 60.
Then there's always Rock Jock & Multiple others that will accept your CC! :lol:
Click to expand...
Target size is 37s or 38s max. If money were no object I'd order some of the new Spicer extreme axles. Wanna sponsor me?

iwaxmyjimmy said:
Decide on how hard you want to wheel, what kinda terrain (are you gonna stick to east coast wheeling or venture out to the west coast), then a tire size, then wheelbase and then set your belly height off of that. Stock wheelbase TJ on 37s gets pretty hairy on steep climbs.

Edit: and if you want road drive ability is something to consider too
Click to expand...
Contemplating a Moab trip late this year or next, but likely just Uwharrie and maybe Harlan. I haven't been wheeling in a long time, so I need to remember how to do it. My TJ was once on fullwidth tons and 38s with nearly stock wheelbase, so I'm familiar with the feeling. I want to get the width back, but keep it lower this time. 3" lift max. I did a hi-line on a buddy's jeep and really liked how it turned out, so that would probably be in the near future.
 
shawn said:
Are you trying to get into wheeling?
Click to expand...

GONOVRIT said:
Is it going to get wheeled or just crawl curbs with big tires? 44/9-8.8 built right could handle 38's and hard wheeling. 60's and you don't have to think about what you're doing so much. I just want to know how much it's going to pain you to put tons BACK under that thing:flipoff2:
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51758209.jpg
 
I'm not a fan of LCOG builds because people get obsessed with droop. To me having a balanced up/down travel is a lot more stable. Ditch the shovel small body lift and flat belly it. Small 3-4" rear stretch will help with your driveline angles and really help you out while crawling. Can be done without comp cutting and an inch or two stretch up front can help keep you out of the back of the front fenders even with highlines.

Personally unless you go 100" wheelbase screw 37/38. The t-Rex TJ/LJ short arms have retarded amounts of axle steer. And that small stretch gives you a chance to get some better geometry out back, mainly anti squat. To me TJ's tends to load the rear suspension and shorts the wheel base when crawling ledges with short arms and anything over 33s. I've ridden in a few with 100ish wheelbases and it's night and day difference.

Highlines are great for a TJ put some on a buddies when I was in Cali and let him ditch some bumpstop to gain some uptravel on 36s. And our boarded rear shocks are the bee knees to get good travel and add some lateral stability.

Not trying to tell you how should build yours, but after dicking around with a lot of TJs out west these are some things I've noticed.
 
D60/14B FF

Do it once, err maybe twice, lol.
 
I agree 100% with @XJsavage, with the price of superduty axles it just doesn't make sense to swap any other axle in.

I don't care what d44 you swap in there, to hold up to 37/38s, your going to have to have chromoly axles. With the 60 you shouldn't have to worry about that. Maybe at the most 35 spine outers which are 300 bucks and a little machine time that you should have no problem doing. That's a little savings there. ECGS has a bracket set just for these axle to be bolt in for a tj also.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
I'm not a fan of LCOG builds because people get obsessed with droop. To me having a balanced up/down travel is a lot more stable. Ditch the shovel small body lift and flat belly it. Small 3-4" rear stretch will help with your driveline angles and really help you out while crawling. Can be done without comp cutting and an inch or two stretch up front can help keep you out of the back of the front fenders even with highlines.

Personally unless you go 100" wheelbase screw 37/38. The t-Rex TJ/LJ short arms have retarded amounts of axle steer. And that small stretch gives you a chance to get some better geometry out back, mainly anti squat. To me TJ's tends to load the rear suspension and shorts the wheel base when crawling ledges with short arms and anything over 33s. I've ridden in a few with 100ish wheelbases and it's night and day difference.

Highlines are great for a TJ put some on a buddies when I was in Cali and let him ditch some bumpstop to gain some uptravel on 36s. And our boarded rear shocks are the bee knees to get good travel and add some lateral stability.

Not trying to tell you how should build yours, but after dicking around with a lot of TJs out west these are some things I've noticed.
Click to expand...
Already have longarms, flatskid, 2" body. Would rather have 1" body, but gotta go 2" to squeeze the NV4500 between the tub and the flatskid. I 100% agree about uptravel. I've never hit a big curb at the mall and thought "man, I wish I had more droop". Plus, when it comes to traction, droop is mostly relying on the weight of the tires and axles, so it doesn't add much frictive force unless your axles are waaaay heavy. D300 helps a lot with driveline angles. Its still a short driveshaft, but its liveable. I'll squeak out whatever I can in the rear without moving the tank, but I'm not ready to pony up for a Genright tank.
 
NCJeeplover said:
I agree 100% with @XJsavage, with the price of superduty axles it just doesn't make sense to swap any other axle in.

I don't care what d44 you swap in there, to hold up to 37/38s, your going to have to have chromoly axles. With the 60 you shouldn't have to worry about that. Maybe at the most 35 spine outers which are 300 bucks and a little machine time that you should have no problem doing. That's a little savings there. ECGS has a bracket set just for these axle to be bolt in for a tj also.
Click to expand...
I've been down that road with a Kingpin 60 front and full float 60 rear. The downside is that a Superduty 60 with hi steer is north of 800lbs, and if I've got 8x170 pattern in the front, I'll want it for both, and if I have 1600+lbs of axles, I'll need 500lbs of tires to get enough ground clearance, and then I'll need heavier driveshafts, and then with all that weight, I'll NEED a Chevy LS-A to be happy, and now I've spent $30k on a jeep that weighs 5500lbs.

I'm not in a hurry, so I plan to find a 44 that has cromos/locker/steering already. That should help ease the pain. Especially if I can find one that already has brackets for a TJ/XJ/ZJ. Then it will just be a matter of regearing if its not the right ratio.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Already have longarms, flatskid, 2" body. Would rather have 1" body, but gotta go 2" to squeeze the NV4500 between the tub and the flatskid. I 100% agree about uptravel. I've never hit a big curb at the mall and thought "man, I wish I had more droop". Plus, when it comes to traction, droop is mostly relying on the weight of the tires and axles, so it doesn't add much frictive force unless your axles are waaaay heavy. D300 helps a lot with driveline angles. Its still a short driveshaft, but its liveable. I'll squeak out whatever I can in the rear without moving the tank, but I'm not ready to pony up for a Genright tank.
Click to expand...

Yeah dude those stretch tanks are ridiculously high. Sounds like you've got it pretty set up from what it sounds like. Are the long arms an off the shelf thing or something you tweaked to your liking? Maybe move all your axle mounts up to have less stuff to hang up on if you swap to a different set of axles.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Already have longarms, flatskid, 2" body. Would rather have 1" body, but gotta go 2" to squeeze the NV4500 between the tub and the flatskid. I 100% agree about uptravel. I've never hit a big curb at the mall and thought "man, I wish I had more droop". Plus, when it comes to traction, droop is mostly relying on the weight of the tires and axles, so it doesn't add much frictive force unless your axles are waaaay heavy. D300 helps a lot with driveline angles. Its still a short driveshaft, but its liveable. I'll squeak out whatever I can in the rear without moving the tank, but I'm not ready to pony up for a Genright tank.
Click to expand...

What about making more room with the current tank? I don't know much about TJ's, but I thought I saw a thread where you could heat up the stock plastic tank in the diff area and push it in to create enough room to move the axle back a few inches or more.
 
I would likely go d44/8.8. Personally I don't think you gain much from the HP30 to d44 swap other than width and R&P strength. The knuckles are slightly stronger, but the shafts and joints are basically the same.

Since your 8.8 is fairly stock, I would do HP44/8.8 combo. Swap all your 8.8 goodies into a fullwidth housing. HP44 with good parts in it will hold upto 38s.

As mentioned, you can get a SD60 for what a HP44 might run ya. And redrilling the UB to another pattern is easy. A D60 will hurt uptravel more than a hp44 though. So you will either need to build the spring pads taller, or run more lift/less travel.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
Yeah dude those stretch tanks are ridiculously high. Sounds like you've got it pretty set up from what it sounds like. Are the long arms an off the shelf thing or something you tweaked to your liking? Maybe move all your axle mounts up to have less stuff to hang up on if you swap to a different set of axles.
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Currently its a modified Teraflex longarm from circa 2002. Those were long lower, short upper. But I made my own long rear uppers in about 2004. Front always seemed to work well, so I never messed with it. However, I also have 40ft of tubing and have built a couple 3 link fronts that seemed to work pretty well, so I may 3 link the front and 4 link the rear. Step 1 is to figure out which axles to do it on.
 
drkelly said:
What about making more room with the current tank? I don't know much about TJ's, but I thought I saw a thread where you could heat up the stock plastic tank in the diff area and push it in to create enough room to move the axle back a few inches or more.
Click to expand...
I basically did that with the old D60 and the stock tank skid. Self clearancing, probably gained an inch or more :gitrdun:
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
I would likely go d44/8.8. Personally I don't think you gain much from the HP30 to d44 swap other than width and R&P strength. The knuckles are slightly stronger, but the shafts and joints are basically the same.

Since your 8.8 is fairly stock, I would do HP44/8.8 combo. Swap all your 8.8 goodies into a fullwidth housing. HP44 with good parts in it will hold upto 38s.

As mentioned, you can get a SD60 for what a HP44 might run ya. And redrilling the UB to another pattern is easy. A D60 will hurt uptravel more than a hp44 though. So you will either need to build the spring pads taller, or run more lift/less travel.
Click to expand...
Thats what I'm thinking right now. I've got my eye on an 8 lug full width D44 with cromos/detroit/hi-steer/hydro assist, and already setup for an XJ/TJ. Buy that, regear, drop it in, then run my 2.5" spacer/adapters on the 8.8 that I already have. If I feel so inclined in a couple months (or years), swap in a full width 8.8 or 9", and get some 8x6.5 pattern shafts or just buy thinner adapters. Part of the reason I de-tonnified my jeep was the weight. She was a porky beast.
 
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