Forest Service Patrol Vehicle

What are your views on the Forest Service Patrol Vehicle Donation?

  • In Favor of. We should raise money to purchase/help them purchase a Patrol Vehicle.

    Votes: 5 8.1%

  • Against. They have a Kubota Mule and should use it, even it its "uncomfortable".

    Votes: 13 21.0%

  • Against. They should get a government vehicle donated.

    Votes: 5 8.1%

  • Against. Combination of #2 and #3.

    Votes: 39 62.9%
  • Total voters
    62
DRaider90

DRaider90

Uwharrie Off-Road Volunteering
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Location
Weddington, NC
This has been discussed in the past, and there are key individuals that think this should be one of our main concerns. So I am bringing this before the public again, so we can get an idea of where everyone stands on this issue. The Facts as we know them.

1.)The Forest Service wants a Patrol Vehicle to be donated so they can enforce the rules/laws on the trails.

2.)The Forest Service has access to a Kubota Mule, but they don't use it. The reason that was given is because is is "uncomfortable".

3.)The Forest Service has been turned down the options of having a government vehicle donated due to "red tape" issues.

Now I don't know much about government donated vehicles, and don't claim to know anything about the process involved. But even if you eliminate #3 you still have #2 to consider. Which as I understand for most is a key issue.

So lets re-visit this, and see if where people are on this issue. Who knows we may come up with an option #4 that resolves the issue once and for all. I have my own opinion on this matter, but I will keep it to myself so I don't influence the voting. Because no one should vote against of in favor of us donating a vehicle purely based on what the group coordinator thinks.
 
get a donation set put together and go to the state surplus. bunch of explorers, a pathfinder, numerous pickup trucks. May be a good option
 
Could they not apply for one? Isn't there a program where one gov. agency and apply and get stuff from another one? Our local sheriff's office got a duce that way I believe.
 
There is a program for them to apply and get a vehicle, but last time it was brought up it was said as "unless your going to fill it all out for them and handle it, they aren't interested"

A mule isn't uncomfortable, Ive ridden them around plenty. I would be more than happy to ride a mule around all day if I was getting paid and government benefits and I am sure alot of other people would too.

Until they start enforcing the rules with what they have, why should we bend over to help them? I just don't see them actually getting out there and doing it. So at this time I am extremely against donating a dime to this.
 
When I first heard Ranger Deborah mention this at a 9AM Hunt Camp workday meeting (maybe Dec 2010?), my assumption (totally based on my own thinking, not anything they said) was that they were looking for something along the lines of a used XJ, and maybe we could help find and fund it, and help make it comfortable/reliable for the trails (lift/lockers/tires/skids - nothing crazy, but enough to make it reliable).

Then when Terry was riding with me on that workday, she mentioned that they had been trying to talk to Southern 4WD club hoping to get something like a Rubicon. That really surprised me. Why would they need such an expensive vehicle?

Eli - do you know what the official Forest Service "want list" is for this vehicle? Is it something cheap, reliable, and capable? Or something plush and expensive?

My thought would be to get something at least as utilitarian as an XJ, so it could be used not just for someone patrolling the trails, but also to haul tools and/or supplies on workdays. And while we're going there, why not make it a true patrol/workday combo vehicle, like a 1-ton Chevy CUCV, so you could haul a bunch of stuff in the bed for a workday? No lift, steering box brace, 36-inch TSLs with minor fender trimming, lunchbox locker in the front, winch on front, and see if anything looks like it needs a skidplate. Or would the Forest Service need more than a 2-passenger vehicle? (Which goes back to - is there a list of what they need this vehicle to do, and what they'd like to use it for.) Do they need air conditioning?

For comfort - if they air down the tires for the trail in whatever they drive, it will be a lot more comfortable.

For reliability - they should avoid an IFS rig. If you know it's going to see 100% off-road use, then what advantage does IFS have? It would be too expensive to upkeep, and too expensive to lift (if a lift is needed). I don't want to start an IFS/SFA debate. I'm just saying that they need the simplest, most reliable setup, so that it will last and be as low maintenance as possible.

If what they want is some cheap/reliable 4x4, then I don't see a problem with the 4x4 community helping them get it, get parts donated, do minor modifications needed to make it trail worthy, and even help them maintain it.

If they feel that they need an expensive vehicle, then I see that as a waste of money.
 
the USFS personnel that I have talked to have told me that they are used hiking to get around the Forrest's. I personally do not see a need for FOU to provide a OHV for them to operate. Hasn't this horse been beat enough?
a2.bp.blogspot.com__oSmneHSBf4Y_S_LqayyqvCI_AAAAAAAAAFA_RXCA_WS0H_M_s1600_Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg


or is it just me?

Don't get me wrong. I want to see the forrest service to become more eficent at keeping people on the trail & enforcing the established rules. I feel that other places like the trails themselves is where FOU should be focusing its recources on. I personally watched several two people riding blatentaly off trail on the last work day. None of the USFS representives there didn't even try to lift a finger to discourage the motor cyclests behavor. I can see them not being able to catch people on ATVs/Motorcycles the first time they pass by like a bvat out of hell, but these two same guys past us 3 times way off the trail 20'+/-. one time we came up on them traveling head on to them, and one of the guys about ate my grill jumping over one of the whoop-ti-dos / Erosion burms. The USFS is the ones that need to focus their attention on enforcing the established rules, and us on keeping the trails up.
 
thecarman said:
If what they want is some cheap/reliable 4x4, then I don't see a problem with the 4x4 community helping them get it, get parts donated, do minor modifications needed to make it trail worthy, and even help them maintain it.
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Im all for helping with this, certainly don't have the funds southern or some other clubs have, but we will do what we can to help if another group takes this initiative and the FS understands, I don't want to help get them a vehicle ready if they are going to let it rot like the mule.
 
I know in the past I have seen Rangers in the forest on 4 wheelers. Or was I mistaken?
 
Another "uncomfortable vehicle" but yes they have 1, maybe 2.
 
"Uncomfortable" isn't very articulate. If there are more/better reasons why they don't/won't use what they have and want something else, I haven't heard or read them. I can imagine better reasons, but would like to hear them from the FS.
 
While you guys are at it, my stool at work is really uncomfortable, I could use a new one.

Really, they have a means to get around, our resources could be used for better reasons than to get someone a comfy ride. It's work, not a vacation. Geez
 
hmmmm,you know,giving the benefit of a doubt,they might be using the world "uncomfortable" as another way of saying they are scared to ride the equipment.I was uncomfortable running a bobcat next to an excavation (i.e. scared a little,timid) until I dumped one upside down in an excavation.I wasn't hurt.Neither was the machine.Now I ain't skeert no mo.
 
In reference to the beating a dead horse comment. I thought everyone was on the same page about this when it was discussed previously. But there are certain people including some above me that still consider this a priority. So to make sure we didn't miss anything we are re-visiting this.

Here is a quote from the Forest Service about the Mule:
....folks do not like riding alone or riding it all day. These trails can beat you up on a atv.
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I have talked with different people in the Forest Service and I do think there is a little more to it than this. I am sure a select few may not be comfortable (in the sense of not secure) with operating it. On the other hand I hear from others that they don't mind even walking on foot, that an ATV is a luxury. So it is a combination of the above.

The way the poll is going so far it seems most are still in the same area as when we left this discussion months ago. I don't see things changing unless like I stated in the original post there is some 4th option we missed that resolves this issue.
 
It is the FS job to police the forest.
Not mine. Dead horse.
 
If the Foresty Service isn't willing to do the leg work to get a gov't vehicle donated through the gov't, then obviously they don't need the vehicle that badly, period. With the economy the way it is, there should be no reason that we should have to come up with funds so they can patrol the forest. They have other means, and should seek those out first. If they try and fail, that is another story, and then we should consider helping out. Until then, we should concentrate our efforts and finances in other, more helpful ways.
 
They need to make due with what they I have. i was issued a 2wd truck for a job that requires me to go offroad. You make due. now saying that, I am more incline to help making the Kubota more trail friendly. This might be more cost efficent and wasting equipment they already have. This will be the easiest for them to maintain because it is already in their system.
 
I have no first hand knowledge, but it sounds like the first service folks have a sense of entitlement that I'm not crazy about. The vehicle they have is uncomfortable and they're not willing to do any work in order to get a different one. And I should help? I pay taxes. I pay to use the forest.

Serious question: How many rangers work weekends?

Why don't they ride with me? I have a Rubicon. :lol: Isn't that what they wanted? They would even be undercover if they rode with me. I see folks pulling illegal crap all the time on the trail. Give me an annual pass and I'll volunteer one weekend day a month to drive them around.
 
Valkyrie45 said:
They need to make due with what they I have. i was issued a 2wd truck for a job that requires me to go offroad. You make due. now saying that, I am more incline to help making the Kubota more trail friendly. This might be more cost efficent and wasting equipment they already have. This will be the easiest for them to maintain because it is already in their system.
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I like this idea, maybe this is a route we could at least look into.

I am going to relay the feedback I am getting to Deborah, and it seems like the majority opinion is very clear. Maybe she has found another avenue to secure a vehicle, we will see.
 
I'm really not going to rely on a government that I b!tch about constantly to support a hobby we are trying to keep alive. So that eliminates the .gov option for me. Secondly, while it does sound slightly whiney and entitled to say the equipment issued (Kubota) is uncomfortable...I can understand that...exposed to the elements (sorta), rough suspension (potentially) and how secure they feel handling the vehicle (although I don't see how they'd feel any better in something bigger). So I'll accept that as a legitimate gripe. If it'll help keep areas open to me, I'm all for giving the FS the tools they need to make that happen. However, I don't see why a fourwheeler could be used or a ride alongs couldn't be implemented.
 
the DRMS can help walk you through the "red tape". I've bought and sold many, MANY surpluss vehicles in the past directly from the US Govt. Its not that hard for me to buy and I know its not that difficult for them to take the property if it can be used. I've had lots taken from me because some other govt agency wanted it. There is a lot of good stuff out there they can use, its just a matter of getting them to do the paperwork to get it! Until they do this and exhaust all viable resources, there is no way we should spend more of our $$$ to get them a vehicle to patrol.
 
I've never seen any of them on the trails other then work days. If it is there responsibility to be on the trails then they should use what they have or walk. I kinda feel taken advantage of with this request. Now as stated above me if we make what they have better then ok I can see that. Getting them a Rubicon on our dime while in this economy were many are struggling just to cover the cost of wheeling I don't think so.

rockcity said:
the DRMS can help walk you through the "red tape". I've bought and sold many, MANY surpluss vehicles in the past directly from the US Govt. Its not that hard for me to buy and I know its not that difficult for them to take the property if it can be used. I've had lots taken from me because some other govt agency wanted it. There is a lot of good stuff out there they can use, its just a matter of getting them to do the paperwork to get it! Until they do this and exhaust all viable resources, there is no way we should spend more of our $$$ to get them a vehicle to patrol.
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Completely agree bro
 
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