Garage Yourself

I think deep pockets is a Hugh factor. Out fitting one bay even with the cheap harbor freight tools could run a couple grand. Two sets of all wrenches couple of evey size ratchet and sockets. Basic air tools and then the lefts are a couple grand a piece for cheaper one.

Also agree it would probably take a year or two for people to really know about it and think about it as a first option without an expensive add setup

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Ron said:
No, that's fine. That is a demographics play.
You have 6 bays.
Raleigh is a town of 430,000. Add in another 200,000 for surrounding areas not directly in Raleigh.
630,000 people. Now lets say 2% would use the service ever.
That is 12,600 users.

A 6 bay shop has 2,190 day uses if its open 365. You have essentialy zero competition. You are over booked.

Ok 2% is too high. What about .5%...you still have 3,150 users. Says nothing about multi day users.

I think its a plausible idea. Just need deep enough pockets to survive through the education and acceptance growth phase.

Adding on to my tuner crowd...how many "Jeep" kids would rent a bay with a lift and access to air tools to install a lift kit?


Add a restaurant up front for another cash stream.
Add in an account with a %discount/kick back with Advance as a commercial shop they will deliver.
Add in some tool rentals
Add in some professional services.

All of a sudden you have a $150k/year idea.
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You are forgetting a lot though. You will need top have an employee there way more than a normal business too. Most users won't be there during normal business hours, so you'll need to have a guy there after hours, probably till late. Weekends too, late.

I still say it won't work. We went really deep into this, even talking with investors, other business owners, everything. Even spoke with a few owners of these type of businesses around the country.

Insurance sucks on it too. We were looking at close to six times what I pay for my current garagekeepers/car dealer insurance. They just don't want to take the risk of a customer being in there and getting injured. That is a huge liability to them.

Honestly, the only way we could make it work would be to have it a normal billable repair shop from 8-5 and then bay rentals after hours and on weekends. I think if you do it that way, it could be done. There are other variables there though that have to potential to really screw things up as far as work taking longer, bays tied up, etc.
 
Blaze said:
You are forgetting a lot though. You will need top have an employee there way more than a normal business too. Most users won't be there during normal business hours, so you'll need to have a guy there after hours, probably till late. Weekends too, late.

I still say it won't work. We went really deep into this, even talking with investors, other business owners, everything. Even spoke with a few owners of these type of businesses around the country.

Insurance sucks on it too. We were looking at close to six times what I pay for my current garagekeepers/car dealer insurance. They just don't want to take the risk of a customer being in there and getting injured. That is a huge liability to them.

Honestly, the only way we could make it work would be to have it a normal billable repair shop from 8-5 and then bay rentals after hours and on weekends. I think if you do it that way, it could be done. There are other variables there though that have to potential to really screw things up as far as work taking longer, bays tied up, etc.
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We could chat offline. I'm not sure its as implausible as you are. Now it isnt a HUGE money maker either.
The person there full time would need to be the owner most likely to get it going.

The trade off would be working on your own junk most days as much as you want while you start and grow a business.


The ancillary sales is where you'd make bank.
You'd market to every niche. To offroad clubs even, free shop day if you bring all your members.
Have tire machines for big tires. Have a tire machine that can handle over sized rims for that crowd.

Then get a deal with...Rough Country or whomever. 2 free hours if shop time (A $60/value!) if you purchase your lift kit from us. Knowing the guy who doesnt have his own shop cant do it in 2 hours you make a couple hours labor. Then night falls and he isnt done. Either got to pay overnight, or you have a professional finish off his job for a reasonable fee. etc.

it would be a hustle. For sure. But in Raleigh or Charlotte it COULD be done.
 
BTW I am not sure you would insure the damn thing at all.
I think it would be too cumbersome. Cascade LLCs to create some security and if they sue let them have the business. Let the business lease all its tools from another LLC which would take back its tools and you just re open across town.
 
Ron said:
630,000 people. Now lets say 2% would use the service ever.
That is 12,600 users.
What about .5%...you still have 3,150 users.
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That's assuming you've reached out to 630,000 people to INFORM them of the service.

In theory it sounds like a GREAT idea, but like many great ideas, getting customers to realize it even exists is the biggest hurtle

Not bursting bubbles....just saying, many really cool ideas/restaurants/hangouts/shops go under because no one even knew about them until it was too late
 
Ron said:
We could chat offline. I'm not sure its as implausible as you are. Now it isnt a HUGE money maker either.
The person there full time would need to be the owner most likely to get it going.

The trade off would be working on your own junk most days as much as you want while you start and grow a business.


The ancillary sales is where you'd make bank.
You'd market to every niche. To offroad clubs even, free shop day if you bring all your members.
Have tire machines for big tires. Have a tire machine that can handle over sized rims for that crowd.

Then get a deal with...Rough Country or whomever. 2 free hours if shop time (A $60/value!) if you purchase your lift kit from us. Knowing the guy who doesnt have his own shop cant do it in 2 hours you make a couple hours labor. Then night falls and he isnt done. Either got to pay overnight, or you have a professional finish off his job for a reasonable fee. etc.

it would be a hustle. For sure. But in Raleigh or Charlotte it COULD be done.
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Well, I am sure it could be done. I think you could probably be profitable and make a little money, but I don't see it being anything you'd make enough to make it worth the effort. Unless you really loved it.

Ron said:
BTW I am not sure you would insure the damn thing at all.
I think it would be too cumbersome. Cascade LLCs to create some security and if they sue let them have the business. Let the business lease all its tools from another LLC which would take back its tools and you just re open across town.
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You can get insurance, we had a couple places that would insure us. It was VERY hard to find them, and they are very expensive, but it can be done. I seem to remember it being somewhere like $9500 a year for a 4-bay shop that we were looking at. This was also about 6 years ago so that may be higher now. My numbers may be wrong too. :lol:
 
I know you COULD insure it...I just am not sure you SHOULD.
$10k/yr....is a nice line itme and I can buy a personal umbrella for $1MM for around $500/yr.
 
I too have run the numbers on this idea...and am still actively pursuing it. Yes, there are horror stories and there have been places like this to come and go, but it can be and is being done all over the country, and no one really knows why the others went out of business (like the guy that got arrested for drugs) . This happens with restaurants all the time, but successful ones are run all day everyday.
Lots of good ideas above, and tieing the garage part to parts sells, rentals, and partnering with vendors would be the only way to make it work. You'd also have to offer storage, cause no repairs go as planned. So youd need fencing and security cameras. The biggest issue, besides insurance, is what happens when someone rents a lift or bay, take the car apart, and then breaks something so it won't run or roll or whatever.
 
Ron said:
I know you COULD insure it...I just am not sure you SHOULD.
$10k/yr....is a nice line itme and I can buy a personal umbrella for $1MM for around $500/yr.
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What would you do when some asshat drops his car off of the lift you rented to him and hurts himself? Because it WILL happen.

It is kind of like the TechShop here in Raleigh. They had everything you could ever want to fabricate stuff. Welders, CNC plasma, mills, lathes, everything. You could even rent space to run a business out of. The place was awesome, and I even knew a few businesses who worked out of it. Problem was that you had to train every person to use the equipment. Granted, the rented shop wouldn't need as much training, just a lift and maybe some specialty tools, but that is still time you need to do. Otherwise, some jackhole comes in there, fucks up your lift, hurts himself and damaged your shop/equipment. Now you have a possible lawsuit and equipment that is unusable and unrentable for however long. BTW - TechShop closed a couple years back, too.

I am just trying to be realistic here. If I thought this could be good and profitable, I would totally convert my current business into nightly bay rentals and whatever. I just don't want to deal with idiots who don't respect your stuff, break stuff, etc. Hell, my last employee here did that and I paid him to work here.....:lol:
 
I think something like this would be cool to be tied along with a PickNPull lot also. They could rent time and go and get parts. Add it to the end of a standard repair facility, or storage lots. They could pay for the bay, pay for indoor/outdoor storage, part for work to be done. Plenty of good cameras and security measures would make storage and long term users want to use it.

I think you either need to supply all the tools or none at all. You could supply just the big stuff (lift, tire machine, etc) that couldnt easily be taken; and they provide everything else. Provide all the tools and figure out a way where they all must be placed back in their spot before the doors/gates can open; or have sensors that alarm when tools leave. Do you outfit each bay with tools, or have a tool room where they go to get the tools?

Maybe fabrication tools are in their own area with its own/different rent? Maybe you just provide contact with a mobile welding service that they could pay to come provide welding for them?

benXJ said:
I too have run the numbers on this idea...and am still actively pursuing it. Yes, there are horror stories and there have been places like this to come and go, but it can be and is being done all over the country, and no one really knows why the others went out of business (like the guy that got arrested for drugs) . This happens with restaurants all the time, but successful ones are run all day everyday.
Lots of good ideas above, and tieing the garage part to parts sells, rentals, and partnering with vendors would be the only way to make it work. You'd also have to offer storage, cause no repairs go as planned. So youd need fencing and security cameras. The biggest issue, besides insurance, is what happens when someone rents a lift or bay, take the car apart, and then breaks something so it won't run or roll or whatever.
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You have a forklift with forks long enough to pick the vehicle up and move it. Or you have bays/building such that a rollback can get to it. They can pay to store the vehicle on your property (bay rent or otherwise) until they can move it, or you can have it impounded.
 
Blaze said:
What would you do when some asshat drops his car off of the lift you rented to him and hurts himself? Because it WILL happen.

It is kind of like the TechShop here in Raleigh. They had everything you could ever want to fabricate stuff. Welders, CNC plasma, mills, lathes, everything. You could even rent space to run a business out of. The place was awesome, and I even knew a few businesses who worked out of it. Problem was that you had to train every person to use the equipment. Granted, the rented shop wouldn't need as much training, just a lift and maybe some specialty tools, but that is still time you need to do. Otherwise, some jackhole comes in there, fucks up your lift, hurts himself and damaged your shop/equipment. Now you have a possible lawsuit and equipment that is unusable and unrentable for however long. BTW - TechShop closed a couple years back, too.

I am just trying to be realistic here. If I thought this could be good and profitable, I would totally convert my current business into nightly bay rentals and whatever. I just don't want to deal with idiots who don't respect your stuff, break stuff, etc. Hell, my last employee here did that and I paid him to work here.....:lol:
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You've got multiple incongruent arguments in here.

Lets start with :
Otherwise, some jackhole comes in there, fucks up your lift, hurts himself and damaged your shop/equipment.
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To be fair its pretty damn hard to fuck up a lift short of running into the damn thing or intentionally trying to.This shop would be manned. And you would supervise folks. No one in the building without an employee, manager on duty. I mean we are only talking 6 bays here. a few cameras and you can sit in the AC fuck off on nc 4x4 all day and pop in when they combine the chainfall and the blowtorch in an inappropriate manner (as opposed to an appropriate combination of said tools)

Now regarding lawsuits. Did you read my post about cascading corporations? Do you understand the concept?
So lets play this out.
Repair Shop LLC is a business that rents shop pace out to consumers.
Repair Shop LLC is a wholly owned subsidy of Repair Shop Networks LLC which builds these businesses and then sells the franchises. They suck though and have only sold this one franchise.
Repair Shop LLC rents their building from Joe Smith Building owner much like your current business. The lease has a covenant in place that Joe can not rent the space t someone else to runt eh same concept business for a perdiod of 10 years after your tenancy ends. Pretty standard terms for a commercial property lease.
Repair Shop LLC leases all its tools from Shop Tools LLC
Shop Tools LLC is a company designed to rent tools to self service shops.
Shop Tools LLC is a wholly owned subsidy of Shop Tools Networks LLC which builds these businesses and then sells the franchises. They suck though and have only sold this one franchise.

By the time Repair Shops LLC pays their employees and their tool rental fees and their utilities and the Repair Shops Network LLC Franchise fee they make exactly $1/yr.
Same for everyone else in the waterfall.

So if someone hurts themselves and sues Repair Shops LLC, they can have the business. They get a company that makes $1/yr. Doesn't own the building they are in. Cant operate out of that building. All fo their tools are owned by another company which wont rent to the new owner. Congrats. You Win.

If they happened to sue through all this red tape and they get to Mr. Schoch the umbrella policy kicks in and you smile in the courtroom and buy them a new outfit.

This shit is done everyday.

None of this should be construed as business or legal advise. Your situation is fact dependent and you should seek the counsel of a competent professional. BBQ sauce and and Beer are harmful to your health and bacon makes you fat.
 
Blaze said:
What would you do when some asshat drops his car off of the lift you rented to him and hurts himself? Because it WILL happen.

It is kind of like the TechShop here in Raleigh. They had everything you could ever want to fabricate stuff. Welders, CNC plasma, mills, lathes, everything. You could even rent space to run a business out of. The place was awesome, and I even knew a few businesses who worked out of it. Problem was that you had to train every person to use the equipment. Granted, the rented shop wouldn't need as much training, just a lift and maybe some specialty tools, but that is still time you need to do. Otherwise, some jackhole comes in there, fucks up your lift, hurts himself and damaged your shop/equipment. Now you have a possible lawsuit and equipment that is unusable and unrentable for however long. BTW - TechShop closed a couple years back, too.

I am just trying to be realistic here. If I thought this could be good and profitable, I would totally convert my current business into nightly bay rentals and whatever. I just don't want to deal with idiots who don't respect your stuff, break stuff, etc. Hell, my last employee here did that and I paid him to work here.....:lol:
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How does that differ from vacation rentals with expensive stuff? A friend rents a beach house with multiple 65" TVs. They have 4-5 per year that are broken. The lease states that they will be charged for damages, and all the TVs have been placed on the customers cards.

I think this could be similar. Put a CC down upfront and you pay for damages. Or figure out lein procedures to place a lein on a car, just as a mechanics shop would.
 
Like I said, it was like 6 years ago when we were going through all of this, so I really can't remember all the ins and outs of what we came up with. All I know was that for two guys who would have done anything to get out of careers we fucking hated and try to work on our own, it wasn't worth it to us. That should say something.

If someone can make it work, that is awesome and I will tell everyone about it and support you any way I can. I'm just saying, this idea pops up all the time but it never happens. And the few times I did see it happen, it didn't work.
 
Umm it does happen all over the country...

What got me looking into it before was a guy I know in FL that has like 10 of them and is KILLING it.
 
I'm still hung up on location, location, location. Forget the red tape, who is coming in (in all seriousness, not just to be argumentative)? I would have been the perfect customer the last couple of years, enjoys wrenching on his own stuff, but constantly traveling/moving...so at most I had an emergency tool set while the rest of the tools were in storage. If you can get to a place where there are 100,000 people and 3,000 of them are me...you're making bank. If you're in an area where they own the bank (or have never been inside a bank), not so much. I go back to, how many people do you know, that like to wrench...don't already have what they need? Chances are good, if you have a kid interested in wrenching...his dad probably is too...and his dad already has a set up. If you're talking preventative maintenance/tire rotation stuff, who is gonna leave their driveway to go pay someone else to use their stuff? If it's a big job, and you're confident enough to tackle it, again...you'll probably have the tools. I absolutely think it can work, it already has...you just have to find that sweet spot of guys that wrench but travel light. I don't think volume of population alone is a fix.
 
benXJ said:
So mimic his operation?

If you don't want to, message me and I'll do it.
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Florida is almost the perfect place for this alot of older homes don't have garages most people would rather have a pool in the back yard then a detached garage, the lots are usually small. Everyone lives in hosing developments with rules on working on stuff in the drive ways, or they live in apartments with similar rules. Not cost effective to rent a building to use it a couple days a month so rent a spot there. Seems like most of the larger cities in NC aren't super strict on working on cars in your drive way, lots are usually larger than in Fla. And alot of homes have a garage.

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Loganwayne said:
Florida is almost the perfect place for this alot of older homes don't have garages most people would rather have a pool in the back yard then a detached garage, the lots are usually small. Everyone lives in hosing developments with rules on working on stuff in the drive ways, or they live in apartments with similar rules. Not cost effective to rent a building to use it a couple days a month so rent a spot there. Seems like most of the larger cities in NC aren't super strict on working on cars in your drive way, lots are usually larger than in Fla. And alot of homes have a garage.

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A lot of HOA's will prevent you from doing work in your driveway. Has to be done in the garage (not that people listen) but Raleigh and Charlotte most of the houses you will find are in HOA neighborhoods. Around here also most people have their garage full of junk and can't even park a car in them.

I think with the right location it would be successful in Raleigh. But also it is all about location, put it in the outskirts of town people won't use it. The sprawl of Raleigh and Charlotte does make it hard though.
 
Based on this thread Ive been emailing back and forth with my buddy Carl most of the day.
Trying to get him over here to offer his input, he said he would later this evening.

In short this was his summary.
Year 1 almost starved. Brought in like $24k gross.
Year 2 decided to go big or go broke Spent $100k on advertising. Revenue that year spiked to $180k
Year 3 kept on advertising and business grew a bit.
Year 4 Opened 3 new locations. $500k advertising budget.
Year 5 added 5 more locations.
Now...sit back and collect checks and fire a manager once a quarter for robbing me blind.

5 of his sites have Dynos. Says those are the money makers. Has club days and charges $100/car for 3 dyno runs, no tuning. Says he can easily make $2,500 those days. That always leads to the upper dogs coming back and scheduling a dyno tune session. Those run $3-400.

Says he is adding a paint booth to his biggest shop near Miami. That shop is 16 bays. He has mechanics who run their business out of his shop. He charges $25/hr bay rental no tools. They bill at $50/hr and are happy. Says he has a mechanic on staff charges ~$100/hr for his mechanic to fix or figure out what you cant.
 
Where I worked, only employees operated the lifts, tire machines, balancers, etc. I worked there 3 years and never once saw a mishap with a lift or damage to a vehicle.

Worst thing that would happen is the power would go out and we couldn't raise the lift to get the vehicle off the locks, so it'd have to sit overnight or until the power came back on if we were still there.
 
me thinks the biggest draw is having the big boy tools available....tire changers and related, bigger welding equipment, light shear/brake, tube bender and coping tools, lifts, air tools for sure, and the biggest draw AIR CONDITIONING.

OK the conditioned air is a pipe dream.....but I got 95 percent of the list covered anybody wanna rent some shop time?????
 
Ron said:
Based on this thread Ive been emailing back and forth with my buddy Carl most of the day.
Trying to get him over here to offer his input, he said he would later this evening.

In short this was his summary.
Year 1 almost starved. Brought in like $24k gross.
Year 2 decided to go big or go broke Spent $100k on advertising. Revenue that year spiked to $180k
Year 3 kept on advertising and business grew a bit.
Year 4 Opened 3 new locations. $500k advertising budget.
Year 5 added 5 more locations.
Now...sit back and collect checks and fire a manager once a quarter for robbing me blind.

5 of his sites have Dynos. Says those are the money makers. Has club days and charges $100/car for 3 dyno runs, no tuning. Says he can easily make $2,500 those days. That always leads to the upper dogs coming back and scheduling a dyno tune session. Those run $3-400.

Says he is adding a paint booth to his biggest shop near Miami. That shop is 16 bays. He has mechanics who run their business out of his shop. He charges $25/hr bay rental no tools. They bill at $50/hr and are happy. Says he has a mechanic on staff charges ~$100/hr for his mechanic to fix or figure out what you cant.
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This has me really curious, as I lived in SoFl for 20 years and would have been there for his years 1-3, assuming the 5 year story is current; otherwise, I'd have been there for even more of it.

With a $100k budget on one store in year 2, even the residuals would turn up in searches. In year 4 with a $500k advertising budget, where is this spent? If you google "Florida DIY Garage", there are very few hits, other than Garage Yourself in Miami. Of those, most are no longer open and the hits are really stale (3+ yrs). Even just $10k in viable SEO work would generate more than this. I'm still somewhat active in the South Florida (Miami) gear head scene and I get no FB ads, nor are any of my gear head friends down there aware of a 16 bay DIY shop (including my Euro trash friends). Can you share his business? Really interested!! Thanks!

Lots of redundant points in this thread and as to housing and demographics, it is very accurate. I lived where what would be considered "inside the beltline" and was in the heart of Miami. In a typical single family home, I had a 6400 ft2 lot (corner even) and no garage. Additionally, my driveway/parkway was gravel. Even having bought the $200 walled garage tent to do a frameoff, it sucked...real bad. South Florida is also the land of high-rises and condo commandos and those guys love their tuners. Add in all the house farms with militant HOAs and you've got a sound base of customers. Just more thoughts...
 
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