Get ready to be Fracked..........

mommucked

mommucked

Endeavoring to persevere
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Location
Rural Apex n.c.
How could anyone (except the folks who will make money at our beautifull states expense) think this is a good idea? I'm no expert, but I have done some drilling/deep rock boring, for a soil testing company in the 80s. From what I've read Fracking involves drilling strait down 1-2000 feet to reach the gas trapped in shale deposits, (or to a depth they think is safe to Frackit and not disturb or contaminate near surface water tables > your well ) or cause other surely UN-fixable/UNderground problems . At the bottom of the bore they turn the drill and drill multiple HORIZONTAL bores through the ground, ( picture roots on a tree buried to the treetop), maybe right under your property if you owned the earth straight down from your property lines (how would you know or prove it? you sure wouldn't dig it up like an encroaching septic line), then they inject water- ( most likely from the river which is also the lowest point on the surface and closest to the fracking BS) -and chemicals to crack/Frack the gas out of the shale so they can tap it like some great underground Earth fart. Then the injected, infected, contaminated water is pulled back out to the surface ( w the gas) to be treated and dumped back into the river ( so it can float/disipate the gas bubbles and seeping bad water from the fracking that pops up from riverbed) and make it all safe to fish, swim, build a campfire or smoke down by the river. I'm sure it would be easy to remove all of the gas, and ALL injected water and chems. from the ground once they pump them down there right? and water only flows up and down underground, not horizontally right? and the earth is solid, no cracks or voids that might transport these contaminations miles from the actual fracking site right? Any experts in Geology/ or other related knowledge care to tell me how this cannot/willnot go wrong in an unfixable way?......... I am all ears:popcorn:
 
Call trouts unlimited, tell them it's gonna cause silt deposits & It will mess up their fishing.
 
I didn't think North Carolina government could get any more crooked, but I think it's happened. Between this and the Toll Commission crap, we have gone down the "sell-out" toilet.
 
But the lottery is making all this money for our schools just like they promised!!!!!. Why are all the counties schools still broke and teachers are paid like ditch diggers????? Lee, Chatham and other counties, possibly Uwarrie could become home to this greed fueled rape of our precious states water and quality of living IMO. The state has issued a feelgood response to critics that nothing could happen until 2014 because of current laws and time to sort all the facts out. Like how much $$$$$ this could generate regardless of the real price to real people who live here and want to stay- not cash in and haul ass to somewhere that has no fracking yet????
 
If you don't want fracking, you'd better be prepared to move out into the sticks and live like the Amish.

Fracking's safe. They've been doing it for 65 years.
 
mommucked said:
But the lottery is making all this money for our schools just like they promised!!!!!. Why are all the counties schools still broke and teachers are paid like ditch diggers????? Lee, Chatham and other counties, possibly Uwarrie could become home to this greed fueled rape of our precious states water and quality of living IMO. The state has issued a feelgood response to critics that nothing could happen until 2014 because of current laws and time to sort all the facts out. Like how much $$$$$ this could generate regardless of the real price to real people who live here and want to stay- not cash in and haul ass to somewhere that has no fracking yet????
Click to expand...
The lottery is bringing in all kinds of money for the schools and education system. The problem is that that money was intended to supplement the funds provided for the state, but our crooked government has reduced the state provided education funding and used lottery money to replace it instead of supplement it.
 
13bullets said:
The lottery is bringing in all kinds of money for the schools and education system. The problem is that that money was intended to supplement the funds provided for the state, but our crooked government has reduced the state provided education funding and used lottery money to replace it instead of supplement it.
Click to expand...
I tell people this all of the time and they're actually surprized!
 
Plus, only 30% of lottery money actually goes to education.
The rest is "administration fees" .... and I'm sure a kick-back or two.


Matt
 
I am a geologist. I am a little rusty with the entire gas process but you did a pretty good job describing the procedure. I know NC has some reserves of Natural gas but I was under the impresion it was not enough to mine out. Maybe things have changed. I am not sure it is leagal for them to drill and go under anyone property. that was a big deal a few years ago when the slant drilling started taking off.

As far as the impacts. Shale is a dense (I use this word loosely) rock. It can fracture, but underground it is pretty solid and not very porous. This is why the gas is able to be traped. Before they inject the water down the hole it is pressure tested very carefully to make sure there is no loss in pressure. I am not sure what all chemicals are injected down besides possiably benzianite (spelling) this is the same stuff they use for drilling well for water. If it is doen right it is one of the safest none avasive mining process out there. i hope this helps

Depending on the exact process it will look something like these images:

ageology.com_articles_oil_and_gas_investments_natural_gas_and_oil_drawing.jpg


ageology.com_articles_marcellus_marcellus_gas_well.jpg


acoto2.files.wordpress.com_2010_06_shale_gas_drilling.jpg_bf83c27eab4975007aedef45a04190a1.jpg


Here is a map showing the gas fields and you can see there is not enough in NC to show up
awww.northcountrytrail.org_wp_content_uploads_2009_12_shale3.jpg
 
K45 said:
As far as the impacts. Shale is a dense (I use this word loosely) rock. It can fracture, but underground it is pretty solid and not very porous. This is why the gas is able to be traped. Before they inject the water down the hole it is pressure tested very carefully to make sure there is no loss in pressure. I am not sure what all chemicals are injected down besides possiably benzianite (spelling) this is the same stuff they use for drilling well for water. If it is doen right it is one of the safest none avasive mining process out there. i hope this helps
Click to expand...

Ed Zachery. Most of the problems attributed to "fracking" specifically are actually results of any shoddy gas drilling and are not unique to fracking.
 
Granted I have no experience with the process. i have experience being on a drill rig. all this is in theroy of how it should work and should be one of the most enviromentally friendly process of extraction we have out.
 
Nothing to worry about with the price of natural gas being where it is now. When it starts to rise then you'll see us exploring fracking... our deposits are potentially so small I just dont see there being any benefit to waste the time/money right now.

I will say that from the engineering side of things, misguided public preception is by far the hardest thing we ever deal with.
 
uncc civilengineer said:
I will say that from the engineering side of things, misguided public preception is by far the hardest thing we ever deal with.
Click to expand...
That is easy to believe. The media points the sheeple in one direction, and they can't turn around.
 
drkelly said:
That is easy to believe. The media points the sheeple in one direction, and they can't turn around.
Click to expand...

It makes me think about Jay leno talking about the advertisment battle between steam cars and the combustion engine. They was trying to say having an automobile that has many mini explosion is not safe. i guess eventually the public got over it.

It was funny in one of my college geology classes we watched movie and discussed how certain things in these movies can not happen. it was fun, but it sad at the same time when people talk to me and think that stuff can happen o_O
 
I remember reading about frozen gas deposits off the coast in the deep water. Seems they would go after that..
 
It depends how far out from shore they are. i think after 100 miles its international waters, then I do not know who would have the rights.
 
the lottery wasnt intended to suppliment educational funds. It was a replacement. There was no increase in school funding predicted, but a way to maintain the current funding levels and divert money into other projects.
 
Reid said:
the lottery wasnt intended to suppliment educational funds. It was a replacement. There was no increase in school funding predicted, but a way to maintain the current funding levels and divert money into other projects.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: As planned and as promised in order to get the lottery passed, education funding wasn't supposed to be cut as a result of the new education lottery funding.

http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/2011/09/21/the-lottery-remains-a-loser/

The lottery remains a loser

Posted on 9/21/2011 by Chris Fitzsimon
Poverty is on the rise in North Carolina and state policymakers are making it worse. The latest numbers from the U.S. Census Bureau show that 17.6 percent of the people in the state lived in poverty in 2009 and 2010. And that’s the average. It is much higher in many counties as data released this week will undoubtedly show.​
​
​
The response by the General Assembly this summer to the rising poverty rate was to slash programs that help low-income families, from mental health services to early childhood programs. Tuition was increased at community colleges and universities and scholarship programs were cut.​
Lawmakers reduced Medicaid by more than $2 billion when you take into account the federal matching funds lost because of state cuts. That will mean fewer health care services to people who are uninsured at a time when the census figures also show almost 20 percent of the people in North Carolina are not covered by an insurance plan.​
But all is not lost. State officials want you to know that no matter how poor you are, you can buy a lottery ticket and count on that one in a million chance of striking it rich.​
In fact, the state desperately needs you to buy a lottery ticket because as a new report from the Education and Law Project of the N.C. Justice shows, lottery revenues are increasingly being used to replace other education funding.​
That’s not the way it was supposed to be of course. We were promised that lottery revenues would supplement funding for the schools, not replace money already being spent.​
Lottery officials convinced the General Assembly a few years to weaken a law that mandated that 35 percent of lottery revenues go to education. Now that is just a target, not a requirement.​
Lottery officials say reducing that percentage and spending more on advertising allowed them to increase sales enough to actually increase the overall contribution to education.​
That means enticing the poor into paying even more to fund schools because lawmakers would rather not fund it honestly through the state’s general revenues.​
An investigation last year by N.C. Policy Watch found that the counties with the highest per capita lottery sales were almost all also the counties with the highest poverty rates.​
Lottery officials don’t keep data on who plays. They’d rather not know apparently, but studies in other states and the Policy Watch investigation make it fairly obvious who is playing the most in North Carolina, people most desperate to improve their financial situation who are also people who can least afford to respond to the ubiquitous lottery ads and waste their hard-earned money.​
Most Republicans opposed the lottery when it was created but unfortunately have done little to rein it in now that they control the General Assembly.​
It is maddening but it not complicated. Poverty is on the rise in North Carolina and the poor play the lottery disproportionately. Education funding is also being reduced at the same time the lottery is increasingly replacing existing education funding.​
It is a formula that doesn’t make sense for schools or for the low income families the state is exploiting.​
This entry was posted in Fitzsimon File. Bookmark the permalink.
Click to expand...
 
http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/07/03/article/nc_lottery_likely_to_fill_budget_gap



N.C. lottery likely to fill budget gap

SUNDAY, JULY 4, 2010
(Updated 7:33 am)
By MARK BINKER Staff Writer
  • RALEIGH — When lawmakers created the lottery in 2005, supporters pledged the state-run gambling enterprise would be additional money for education and not take the place of tax dollars.
Lottery opponents were skeptical of that promise from the beginning, and they say the $19 billion budget the General Assembly approved last week leaves little doubt that lottery revenue will be used to replace lost education money rather than provide new funding for public schools.
“If anybody still had some vestige of hope of the lottery not supplanting, they should be able to let go of that,” said Sen. Phil Berger, an Eden Republican who opposed the lottery’s creation.
This year’s budget does three things that could be interpreted as shifting lottery funds to replace state tax dollars:
  • $35 million in unclaimed lottery prize money and excess receipts will be held to help fill a potential $518 million gap if Congress does not provide an anticipated but as-yet unapproved boost to Medicaid funding.
  • $63 million has been shifted away from school construction into class-size reduction, a program used to make sure teacher-to-student ratios don’t balloon in lower grades.
Class-size reduction is one of four uses specified in the original lottery law, but money put into the program mingles with tax dollars, making it hard to parse what is a supplement versus a replacement for school funding in the best of times. With lawmakers cutting funding for schools, the distinction is even more blurry.
  • The budget authorizes counties to shift what they do get in school construction funding to pay for classroom teachers. School districts that decide to make such a shift would be using lottery money to replace lost state-level funding.
When asked about shifting local lottery funds from construction needs to paying teachers, Laurie Hogan, a spokeswoman for Guilford County Schools, said administrators have not yet seen this budget provision nor have they approached school board members with the potential for making the switch.
“History shows with other states that we have to be careful here or it will become a giant shell game,” said Les Merritt, who was state auditor when the lottery was crafted. At the time, the Republican warned then-Gov. Mike Easley, a Democrat, that there were insufficient safeguards in place to ensure lottery funds wouldn’t be abused.
“It was very easy to stick to the plan when there was plenty of money coming in,” Merritt said. “None of those promises meant much.”
Those “promises” were written into the original lottery law, but the General Assembly rewrites reams of law every year, including the state budget.
“I don’t think there were very many people, even at the time, on either side of the debate who believed those promises,” said Rob Schofield, with N.C. Policy Watch, which characterizes itself as a progressive think tank.
Budgets over the past five years have eroded the idea that lottery funds would “supplement not supplant,” he said, but “this most recent budget puts the nail in the coffin of that argument.
“The lottery has become what we always thought it would be — just another source of revenue for the state, a very regressive and ill-conceived way to raise money.”
By any standard, there is not plenty of money coming into state coffers now. Budget writers have had to pare state-funded spending and could be forced to grapple with a $3.5 billion deficit next year.
Faced with cutting funding for classrooms or reshuffling lottery funds, Democratic leaders said the decision was easy.
“We’ve tried very hard to make sure it (lottery money) is 100 percent going for education,” House Speaker Joe Hackney said. “These are hard times, and it may be that innovation and saving teaching positions is a higher priority at this time.”
Rep. Maggie Jeffus, a Greensboro Democrat and one of the lead House budget writers, said she wouldn’t even characterize the use of lottery funds as supplanting.
“It depends on how you look at it,” she said. “I would say no. I would say also we’re in extremely unusual circumstances this year, and they warrant some unusual decision-making.
“As far as using the lottery money to retain teachers, I think its certainly better to retain jobs and keep the teachers in the classrooms to educate students.”
Gov. Bev Perdue cast the deciding vote to create the lottery when she broke a tie in the Senate as lieutenant governor in 2005.
“I said I would watch out for supplanting — I meant that,” Perdue said last week. But, she said, the economy has been slow to bounce back and as a result, the state needed to do things it ordinarily would not.
“Sometimes you have to do what you have to do,” Perdue said.
Contact Mark Binker at (919) 832-5549 or mark.binker@news-record.com
Click to expand...

But you keep thinking what you want to think.
 
so if a senator shits in your hand and promises you that it's chocolate.....are you gonna eat it?
 
Hijack!
 
I don't mind.....I'm happy to read all yalls replies yea or ney on the frackin thing. I Think the lottery is an illegal tax that looks like a game, after all the state gets the majority of the spoils and folks who win big pay taxes on the winnings right? Priceless! and CHA-CHING :shaking: Did I hear the current jackpot is half a Bizazzillion ???:eek:....whats the tax on that??
 
:wtf: Seems like our greedy politicians are trying to speed up the process of allowing Fracking in our great state. Why the rush??? the gas aint going anywhere. Could it be to get it on the books before everyone finds out how bad this could be and we oppose or stop it entirely????? I find it ironic that Fracking is described as " horizontal drilling " into shalebeds.....and "injecting" stuff, water/chemicals under high pressure to release the trapped gas..... Kinda describes the current ramrodding of this issue...... Bend over everyone in the Deep River basin, we're obviously gonna get fracked quick and hard ..............I don't think the gubmnt is gonna use lube........or give anyone a kiss when it's over. Making quick money now, while possibly permanently damaging our beautifull area for future generations is selfish IMO. I wonder who is in the Senators pockets and ears right now................
 
Back
Top