Government wasting money it doesn't have on things it is not authorized to do

[UTfball68]

Why? That is what I want to know. Is it just a case of we can so we will? I've seen what these head coaches get paid and I hope that is done through the schools athletic support network and not a part of everyone's tuition.

If I had to fancy a guess, since I have no idea how financials work for a state institution…but, when my wife went to WCU, it was still the cheapest in the state. Cinder block dorms, very little AC on campus anywhere, food court was either Brown town cafeteria, and a couple fast food options in the student union. The school wants money, they need to attract students. You attract students through wow and pizzazz. I don’t recognize the WCU campus today from a decade ago, and I believe they just demolished the last of the cinder block dorms a few months back. That all costs money. Where does it come from? I’m sure the state has some earmarked operating funds and whatnot, but I highly doubt WCU has donors writing several million dollar checks. I think WCU still does some semblance of subsidized tuition, but prices have gone up. I’d imagine every institution across the country has done the same thing to stay competitive. In any business transaction, When the ends don’t meet, who gets squeezed…the customer (ie student). And Uncle Sam has been all too willing to send damn near anyone that wants to go to school, to go. I don’t necessarily have a problem with the loan, I do have a problem with the vetting of who’s receiving funds though. How many liberal arts majors can/could the federal loans support? How many 3rd semester dropouts can the federal loans support? Frankly, I think there’s a two step solution, federal money needs to be more exclusionary on who gets what money…but that’ll turn into an affirmative action exercise…and I think the corporate world needs to change their mindset on experience or what a degree actually means.

 

[UTfball68]

The conservative friends were probably cool with taking out $100,000 ppp loans and having them forgiven though.

That one I went back and forth on myself. On the one hand, there’s guilt for going against everything you believe. On the other hand, you’re stupid for not taking free money…it’s gonna be spent anyway, so you don’t want to be even further behind the 8 ball by not taking it and then eating the inflation/taxes later.

 

[RatLabGuy]

That one I went back and forth on myself. On the one hand, there’s guilt for going against everything you believe. On the other hand, you’re stupid for not taking free money…it’s gonna be spent anyway, so you don’t want to be even further behind the 8 ball by not taking it and then eating the inflation/taxes later.

Just to push buttons - the money is only spent if you take it. If a larger % of people said "no thanks" the bill to the gov would have been lower.
Plus... exact same could be said about college loans. unfortunately a degree is the new minimum for a lot of jobs, if you don't take what you can, you're also left holding the bag.

 

[benXJ]

Fixered.

Thats racist.


Oh, and the PPP loans were a symptom of the Feds crossing the bridge to 100% incompetence, failing all citizens, and shutting down the economy. No business owner asked for that. That is not the same as the Biden 'forgiving' some optional loans all willy-nilly for obvious vote buying with tax dollars.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

^ I came in here to post exactly this. It not only doesn't address the real issue(skyrocketing college costs), but it serves to make the actual problem worse in the future.

Also, if these loans are so predatory and awful, then why is the government still handing them out? Its just blatantly a vote buy for the mid terms, these politicians don't give a shit about any of the people they are handing this out to.

exactly. Also why the gov co should have no part in any of it period. It is private enterprise not public education. If they do this it is just like the car bail outs but strictly for votes. They are buying votes with "My Money". I want to burn it to the ground.

 

[ghost]

Thats racist.


Oh, and the PPP loans were a symptom of the Feds crossing the bridge to 100% incompetence, failing all citizens, and shutting down the economy. No business owner asked for that. That is not the same as the Biden 'forgiving' some optional loans all willy-nilly for obvious vote buying with tax dollars.

Agreed. We would have to shut our doors without it. Was there massive fraud? Hell yea. Every government pay out has it in my opnion.

 

[awheelterd]

That one I went back and forth on myself. On the one hand, there’s guilt for going against everything you believe. On the other hand, you’re stupid for not taking free money…it’s gonna be spent anyway, so you don’t want to be even further behind the 8 ball by not taking it and then eating the inflation/taxes later.

Sames. We took it. Didn't need it, but why let our competitors get a leg up on us? Don't hate the player hate the game, right?

 

[RatLabGuy]

Agreed. We would have to shut our doors without it. Was there massive fraud? Hell yea. Every government pay out has it in my opnion.

But couldn't you say that bc of skyrocketing college costs w/o Federal backed loans, lots of people couldn't go to college, and the door is also shut on that career?

 

[ghost]

But couldn't you say that bc of skyrocketing college costs w/o Federal backed loans, lots of people couldn't go to college, and the door is also shut on that career?

Not in my opinion. If they want to go to college do the work get scholarships if you can't afford it. You might could say that but I could not and don't agree. Again my opinion.

 

[awheelterd]

But couldn't you say that bc of skyrocketing college costs w/o Federal backed loans, lots of people couldn't go to college, and the door is also shut on that career?

Well yeah, colleges that exist on hyped up tuition and overblown salaries would shut their doors. Who says thats a bad thing?

 

[Jody Treadway]

But couldn't you say that bc of skyrocketing college costs w/o Federal backed loans, lots of people couldn't go to college, and the door is also shut on that career?

Sake of argument here.
Or they could choose a trade school or community college degree that would suit their financial situation. Personal accountability thing again.
Not everyone gets the cookie (or 4 year degree in this instance).
A bachelor's or better degree isn't a golden ticket to wealth and success. There's plenty of other avenues that don't require such a great financial burden.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Not in my opinion. If they want to go to college do the work get scholarships if you can't afford it. You might could say that but I could not and don't agree. Again my opinion.

Well yeah, colleges that exist on hyped up tuition and overblown salaries would shut their doors. Who says thats a bad thing?

Sake of argument here.
Or they could choose a trade school or community college degree that would suit their financial situation. Personal accountability thing again.
Not everyone gets the cookie (or 4 year degree in this instance).
A bachelor's or better degree isn't a golden ticket to wealth and success. There's plenty of other avenues that don't require such a great financial burden.

I'm sorry, I think you guys are missing my point, which I must have worded badly.

On one hand is a loan/bailout taken by a business owner. On the other is a loan/bailout taken by a student.

The business owner can choose to take the loan and continue the direction his business is going in. He could choose not to, and change what his business is. It sucks for him and his employees, and puts him behind the competition in the market, but it is still his choice.
The college student can choose to take the loan and continue their enrollment in the education they want. They could choose not to, and change what their career path is. This sucks for him bc it may not be the skillset they are best suited for and may push them off their desired career path, and its puts them out of competition for the higher paying jobs against those who are wealthy enough to not need loans, but it is still a choice.

In both cases it's a matter of choice, one that is uncomfortably forced by the circumstances. And in both cases, paid for by all of us taxpayers.

 

[benXJ]

But couldn't you say that bc of skyrocketing college costs w/o Federal backed loans, lots of people couldn't go to college, and the door is also shut on that career?

the skyrocketing college costs is due to the Feds loaning any amount of money that they colleges charged.

the government is the problem.

 

[RatLabGuy]

the skyrocketing college costs is due to the Feds loaning any amount of money that they colleges charged.

Wait - y'all know "the government" doesn't give out college loans right?

 

[paradisePWoffrd]

I'm sure some of it is college sports, no idea how much of it htough.

Some of it is every university wants to "bigger" and "newer" so they are spending millions and millions on new buildings, dorms, etc.

I think UNCW had something like 13k enrolled when I went there, now its 18k but the place looks double the size.

Some is supply and demand of telling kids they have to go to college.

Maybe some is more don't actually get out in 4 years anymore.

Pay increases in the people leading the universities contributes some

I think they will raise the cost but justify it by showing new expenses, etc.

And there are probably more reasons i'm sure.

I think alot of the increases are because they can, and they know people with pay it. There is no standard out there that says X degree is worth $Y. I look at it similar to cars and houses. As long as the banks guarantee the loans, they would be dumb to not charge more. If the lenders started saying that a BA degree is only worth $30k, then that is all you could get for school. If you wanted to go to a private school, then its on you. Similar to a friend, their kid just graduated from LR ($25k/yr) with a Elementary Ed degree. They sold a vacation property to pay for her school (which they bought 15 yrs ago, for that purpose). To me, choosing that school for that degree was a terrible financial decision, but not my money. Had her parents not paid for it, she would have gotten loans, and then spent the rest of her life working 2 jobs to pay them back.

 

[paradisePWoffrd]

Wait - y'all know "the government" doesn't give out college loans right?

I am pretty sure they had a hand in making the loans a gaurentee though. Why would would not loan the money, even death wont allow you to default on the loan?

 

[benXJ]

Wait - y'all know "the government" doesn't give out college loans right?

Sure...if we want to get down to the nitty gritty, I understand how it works.

But for everyday Joe, they think the 'government' is loaning the money.

The government backs the loans, so they are effectively loaning the money, especially if they have the power to 'forgive' loans.

College costs skyrocketed once the gov't got in the game. The gov't is the problem, but no news there.

 

[DSM Turbos]

Not in my opinion. If they want to go to college do the work get scholarships if you can't afford it. You might could say that but I could not and don't agree. Again my opinion.

If you want to own a business and can't plan for a downturn and slowdown maybe you shouldn't be in business?

You can really use that statement either way.

Sure...if we want to get down to the nitty gritty, I understand how it works.

But for everyday Joe, they think the 'government' is loaning the money.

The government backs the loans, so they are effectively loaning the money, especially if they have the power to 'forgive' loans.

College costs skyrocketed once the gov't got in the game. The gov't is the problem, but no news there.

Is there anything that shows how this forgiveness works? Because rarely will any of the lending institutions "lose" money on this as they have made more than that on interest on the loans. I'm curious if the gov is writing a check to the "lenders".

 

[benXJ]

If you want to own a business and can't plan for a downturn and slowdown maybe you shouldn't be in business?

You can really use that statement either way.



Is there anything that shows how this forgiveness works? Because rarely will any of the lending institutions "lose" money on this as they have made more than that on interest on the loans. I'm curious if the gov is writing a check to the "lenders".

If I own a business I should be expected to save enough money for the day that the gov't shuts my doors with no input from me? To pay all my employees for 6+ months? To pay the rent and all the bills with zero dollars coming in due to no fault of my own?

This whole forgiveness thing is not even guaranteed to be real. Even Pelosi said the Biden doesn't have the power to forgive student loans. There will be a big fight. No one knows the details. Even Biden doesn't know.

 

[paradisePWoffrd]

If I own a business I should be expected to save enough money for the day that the gov't shuts my doors with no input from me? To pay all my employees for 6+ months? To pay the rent and all the bills with zero dollars coming in due to no fault of my own?

This whole forgiveness thing is not even guaranteed to be real. Even Pelosi said the Biden doesn't have the power to forgive student loans. There will be a big fight. No one knows the details. Even Biden doesn't know.

What he (his team) does know, is that since he let the cat out of the bag, if it doesnt go through, itll be the GOP's fault. Either way, he will get more votes.

 

[RatLabGuy]

The government backs the loans, so they are effectively loaning the money, especially if they have the power to 'forgive' loans.

College costs skyrocketed once the gov't got in the game. The gov't is the problem, but no news there.

Is there anything that shows how this forgiveness works? Because rarely will any of the lending institutions "lose" money on this as they have made more than that on interest on the loans. I'm curious if the gov is writing a check to the "lenders".

"Forgiveness" is the Fed paying off the loan. The private lender doesn't lose anything.

 

[DSM Turbos]

If I own a business I should be expected to save enough money for the day that the gov't shuts my doors with no input from me? To pay all my employees for 6+ months? To pay the rent and all the bills with zero dollars coming in due to no fault of my own?

This whole forgiveness thing is not even guaranteed to be real. Even Pelosi said the Biden doesn't have the power to forgive student loans. There will be a big fight. No one knows the details. Even Biden doesn't know.

I'm just talking about the PPP free loan part, the rest of it, you can debate.

You don't have to pay your employees, you can lay them off. You can go find another job to pay rent and the bills.

Just saying there are other ways other than PPP to continue to get by, regardless of how you got into the situation (your business decisions or otherwise)


*If I went to college and got a degree and somebody told me i could make 60k, but I can only make 30k doing it, why should I have to pay for my degree?

It sounds kind of crazy doesn't it? It is similar to the PPP loan.

 

[benXJ]

I'm just talking about the PPP free loan part, the rest of it, you can debate.

You don't have to pay your employees, you can lay them off. You can go find another job to pay rent and the bills.

Just saying there are other ways other than PPP to continue to get by, regardless of how you got into the situation (your business decisions or otherwise)

I see no debate. I see no comparison to the student loan nonsense to the incompetent feds and governors shutting down the entire economy.
You own a business? You gonna just go 'get another job' tomorrow when you come to your building and the door is chained and there are no other jobs to be had, cause the man said so? Its that easy? How much should I save?
The whole thing...the shutdowns, PPP, masks, travel ban, all of it was done so bass ackwards. There is no debate about that.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Wait - y'all know "the government" doesn't give out college loans right?

Exactly. They should not make any excusable or however else you want to doctor it up to be either. If they told the institutions so suck it up and leave the borrowers be that would be a whole other argument as well. But using (I keep saying my money) the Countries money is plain wrong.

 

[awheelterd]

I'm just talking about the PPP free loan part, the rest of it, you can debate.

You don't have to pay your employees, you can lay them off. You can go find another job to pay rent and the bills.

Just saying there are other ways other than PPP to continue to get by, regardless of how you got into the situation (your business decisions or otherwise)


*If I went to college and got a degree and somebody told me i could make 60k, but I can only make 30k doing it, why should I have to pay for my degree?

It sounds kind of crazy doesn't it? It is similar to the PPP loan.

Personally, I would have preferred ppp loans not have happened. That way my weaker and/or more heavily leveraged competitors would have gone out of business and I could have scooped up all their customers. Unfortunately "the strong survive and the weak fall by the wayside" isn't true anymore.