Government wasting money it doesn't have on things it is not authorized to do

benXJ said:
Show me a business that has zero debt and has enough cash on hand to last a year with no income and not lay off anyone and I'll shut up.
Click to expand...
How many businesses DIDN'T fail last year?
 
RatLabGuy said:
How many businesses DIDN'T fail last year?
Click to expand...

many.

but millions were laid off and there were massive bailouts, grants and gifts just to keep the business owner and a skeleton crew afloat.

Not because they had a years worth of 100% liquid cash in the bank to pay people not to work and have zero income while the doors were shut.....and still pay all their personal bills at the same time.

I got laid off twice, but the companies didn't go under. Why didn't they save enough to pay me while I sat around?
 
benXJ said:
many.

but millions were laid off and there were massive bailouts, grants and gifts just to keep the business owner and a skeleton crew afloat.

Not because they had a years worth of 100% liquid cash in the bank to pay people not to work and have zero income while the doors were shut.....and still pay all their personal bills at the same time.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that only those who took loans survived? all 24% of small businesses who got a PPP - and 100% of big businesses - failed?
 
RatLabGuy said:
How many businesses DIDN'T fail last year?
Click to expand...
We all know there are a lot of factors why some businesses made it through the government mandated shutdown and others did not.

I don't fault any business for taking PPP because the government inflicted an artificial event on them. I see PPP as the due compensation for interference.

As a taxpayer, I shouldn't have had to pay PPP because my government should not have interfered with businesses. But since they did, I'm happy to see those businesses still active thanks to PPP.

Edit: Yes. Some businesses even thrived due to the shutdown (Uber eats to name one). But that's another story on market economics.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
We all know there are a lot of factors why some businesses made it through the government mandated shutdown and others did not.

I don't fault any business for taking PPP because the government inflicted an artificial event on them. I see PPP as the due compensation for interference.

As a taxpayer, I shouldn't have had to pay PPP because my government should not have interfered with businesses. But since they did, I'm happy to see those businesses still active thanks to PPP.
Click to expand...
All very reasonable.

Now... replace "PPP" with "poorly regulated Federal backed student loans."
Its actually a very similar situation when you look at the general framework.

Look back a few decades. Higher education is getting expensive. Gov steps in w/ the goal of making college more affordable. Sets up a program where private banks have direct access to lend students $$ they shouldn't be able to get, and sets terms that only set them up to fail (e.g. "income based repayment" which only serves to (1) remove the feasible cap on education costs and (2) puts >1/3 of the loan holders in a situation where they are permanently in debt. Thereby creating the scenario where a college degree is even more unattainable AND taking loans is a bad idea that benefits only the banks, fucking many people.

Gov created the scenario, now needs a bailout to fix it.
(except this isn't actually a fix, as we have all agreed).

The *one* good thing about this order, which nobody is talking about, is that is adds actual regulation and restrictions on repayment plans, which is what caused most of the real problems.

Perhaps we need some reading on how the student loan system works, and where it came from... Its more problematic than just being a hopeful up front investment in future income.
 
benXJ said:
many.

but millions were laid off and there were massive bailouts, grants and gifts just to keep the business owner and a skeleton crew afloat.

Not because they had a years worth of 100% liquid cash in the bank to pay people not to work and have zero income while the doors were shut.....and still pay all their personal bills at the same time.

I got laid off twice, but the companies didn't go under. Why didn't they save enough to pay me while I sat around?
Click to expand...
And lots of companies had their best year ever last year. Also No one was shut down for a year, that's an exaggeration, also no one said you needed a full year liquid. Just access to some cash. When tings get bad you can layoff, sell assetts, etc
Less debt
 
RatLabGuy said:
So you're saying that only those who took loans survived? all 24% of small businesses who got a PPP - and 100% of big businesses - failed?
Click to expand...

mmmm....every single business didn't shut its doors completely, but some did. I'm talking about the businesses that shut their doors completely, had ZERO income for an extended time, and had employees to pay and rent to pay and electric bills to pay. Those businesses were effd with by an incompetent government and them not having years of liquid cash laying around is not their fault.
Sure, some businesses found creative ways to stay open, were 'crucial', or maybe even thrived. They obviously had some income and stayed afloat on reduced headcount and putting off buying/expanding/saving. Oh, and the PPP.
 
benXJ said:
mmmm....every single business didn't shut its doors completely, but some did. I'm talking about the businesses that shut their doors completely, had ZERO income for an extended time, and had employees to pay and rent to pay and electric bills to pay. Those businesses were effd with by an incompetent government and them not having years of liquid cash laying around is not their fault.
Sure, some businesses found creative ways to stay open, were 'crucial', or maybe even thrived. They obviously had some income and stayed afloat on reduced headcount and putting off buying/expanding/saving. Oh, and the PPP.
Click to expand...
The point is - there still is (was) a choice. You can take the loan, or not. You can get creative and survive. Some won't. But some will. The business owner makes a conscious choice - this is the business I want to be in, they bust their ass, and they make it happen.

Choosing your career path is not so terribly different. For some people the path they desire is easy bc they already have the resources, no matter how expensive .gov allows it to become. Others find creative means to make it happen - via military service, via putting off to work and save up, marrying a sugar mama, whatever. Yet others have few options (say, you're a middle class white guy who isn't supported by the family, and don't qualify for selective service). Loans are about the only option.

Or... you suck it up and choose another profession that isn't your preferred.
Just like during the pandemic, a business could choose to change what they do. It sucks, nobody wants to do that, but it's an option. Everybody who got into the teleconferencing game and shifted their work to a virtual format sure as hell did well.
 
RatLabGuy said:
The point is - there still is (was) a choice. You can take the loan, or not. You can get creative and survive. Some won't. But some will. The business owner makes a conscious choice - this is the business I want to be in, they bust their ass, and they make it happen.

Choosing your career path is not so terribly different. For some people the path they desire is easy bc they already have the resources, no matter how expensive .gov allows it to become. Others find creative means to make it happen - via military service, via putting off to work and save up, marrying a sugar mama, whatever. Yet others have few options (say, you're a middle class white guy who isn't supported by the family, and don't qualify for selective service). Loans are about the only option.

Or... you suck it up and choose another profession that isn't your preferred.
Just like during the pandemic, a business could choose to change what they do. It sucks, nobody wants to do that, but it's an option. Everybody who got into the teleconferencing game and shifted their work to a virtual format sure as hell did well.
Click to expand...
I hear you, but it's not the same. Here is my personal example:

I go to physical therapy at a clinic near my house. The business owner did bust her ass to get an education in a useful degree and chose to provide a critical service to the community, military, and veterans. The shutdown absolutely crippled her business. She opened a line of credit on her house before the first round of PPP. But it wasn't going to be enough. They finally allowed her and her staff to see patients again. But the protocols reduced load and cost money. She was on the ropes until that PPP loan came through. I don't see how she could have adjusted her business model to work it out herself.

The difference I see is that people knew the score when they went into college. The corona shutdown didn't impact the labor market as significantly. And the government even suspended rent and student loan payments during that time. So, those that were impacted had relief. Now, there are jobs available. I say go get one and start paying your student loan.
 
RatLabGuy said:
www.cnbc.com

Supreme Court again declines to block Biden's student loan relief plan

The Supreme Court on Friday rejected a second request to block the Biden administration's student loan debt relief program.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
Click to expand...

They’re just trying to play both sides. Pissed off the liberals with ‘her body, not her choice’…now pissing off conservatives/responsible adults by letting .gov literally buy votes. ACB just wants to watch the world burn…I blame trump.

by the way sarcasm font
 
Back
Top