Guardrails pulled down?

Bruiser we had a meeting yesterday with the usfs. We are trying to come up with a solution now. But yes its been removed on several trails..
 
I can't believe I'd recommend it, but at this point it might be a point to cut our losses and close Dickey Bell, possibly Daniel as well. We've put way to many hours into that place just for some dumb fucks to come tear it down and ride where they want too. No sense in the people to have spend their time fixing/maintaining the trails to ultimately be destroyed and closed down anyways.
 
Yes we had a meeting last night. Did we accomplish anything really . I do not think that we really did. A lot of ideas came up and were shot down in flaming glory. There is really only one solution and it costs money of which they do not have. I can say this though. It was put out yesterday we are in someone's radar out there on both D trails mentioned above me and it is way, way higher than our local folks in charge.

So like I said last night.

Enjoy what NC has to offer now cause it is not a guarantee tomorrow. Sadly tomorrow is coming too soon. I have done what I can and will continue the good fight but I am getting tired. I have been volunteering up there since the early 90's when I could while being in the military and I am about burnt out. This has to be the fastest I have seen stuff get tore down after opening day.

This is only me talking here. I am in no way in charge of any of the thoughts I put out here and non of these things I said is endorsed or been said by the USFS. Just my own shit going on in my own head.
 
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Weeding out those that cause the problems is the only long term answer. Then education and ownership for those that use the trails.

Guardrails are like making everyone on the team run a lap when the shortstop lets a grounder go between his legs. Why make everyone suffer?


(yes, I know it had to be done, but it must have been known this could not be a long term solution??)


Start by raising the rates. And I mean raise them to $100-$200 per year and enforce it. This will immediately reduce the traffic and make accountability easier.



Drive on the beach in the Outer Banks - $50 per week and watch a video

Carolina Beach - $30 per day

It's worth it to me, cause the alternative is they close! These rate increase are to combat similar problems as we have in URE.
 
I liked the post for them being scrapped. Because I sincerely believe this was the fate of the rails. Why else would they be removed and carted away? The shear stupidity and laziness of our society drives this sort of action. No rational thought will ever combat the irrational. Plain and simple some jackass saw easy free money. Just a little sweat equity invested and almost zero chance of getting caught. The one hundred percent greatest obstacle in UNF is enforcement. You can dictate, educate, and legislate all you want. Until us, them, or anybody puts down some genuine penalties for actions it will continue to be the wild west on the trails. The Feds would just rather wash its hands of the burden. On the big picture UNF is just a blip. The Feds vision is macro and our is micro. They could careless higher up. They frankly put attention toward greater pocket books. Ours and the recreation we enjoy is not Macro enough to persuade them to do the job given to them in regulating the UNF areas. It should be Rangers jobs as employed by and funded by our tax payer dollars to monitor and maintain the area enough that no one would be able to cart off such assets unseen. Yes its a large land area. Yes its the only and best trail system in NC. But let us compare it to other Federal areas. Man power, traffic flow, and maintenance are all tangibles and handled very differently at our "brick and mortar" parks and water ways. It is simply not in the interest of the Forest Service to do these things. I have said it and I believe it still. Private focused investing in our recreation will be the norm. You want to drag race your boat or car? You want to go round and round on dirt or asphalt? You want to experience road course or stadium style off road truck racing? Like riding motor cross? How about 4WD off road? It will all eventually be held Privately. Pay to play. I really pray it doesn't happen. Given the status quo and the slow but systematic closure of Government controlled "PUBLIC" areas this is the fate of our parks.
 
I just don't understand this sort of thing. I always amazed at how little people care. I know it's not that easy but I agree with others that raising the cost and adding some enforcement would help. Places like Windrock charge $17/day per person. Granted Windrock has 10x as many trails but it's also not close for most of us. I think raising rates to around $20/day with season passes around $150 would help discourage some of the riff raff from coming out. However, raising the rates w/o enforcement won't really help because people that do this type of stuff probably would not care if they had a pass or not. In the 10 years I've been going to Uwharrie I've only seen two trail side checks for trail passes.
 
June 6th 4WP in Raleigh is holding a fund raiser and all of the proceeds are going to help us in URE. We have ideas of how we can use it and Debra is all for it. I am hoping some of the funds will go into a pot so that we can pay a few Local Sheriffs Deputies to help us patrol the areas out there. There is already a pot in place for that so by us adding more funds into it hopefully we can get them out there a few more times. I have even volunteered to take them on the trails to the bad spots so we shall see. @snappy please correct me if i am wrong on the date or the place / info i put out here. Also please know and understand me and Snappy are doing everything we can possibly do to keep it going in the correct direction . I know most already know. He is reaching out in one direction and i am going in a different direction, but all for the same goal. To keep our trails open.
 
BTW, It would be great to raise the prices and everyone local is game for it, but it literally takes an act of Congress. And we know how that goes right now.
 
krzyabncanuck said:
BTW, It would be great to raise the prices and everyone local is game for it, but it literally takes an act of Congress. And we know how that goes right now.
Click to expand...

How about some artificial inflation? Since most if not all the trail passes are sold at the Outpost which is a private business. Could they charge a "Convenience" fee which would then get donated to FOU? People could still get their passes through the forest service at the regular price if they really wanted to. Kind of like ticket scalping. You could even have volunteers that each of the major entrance points during weekends checking and selling passes. Part of the mark up go towards compensating them for their time.

Just some thoughts.
 
A few of us from Greenville are coming up this weekend. We want to drop off a donation and have it earmarked for this. Krzyabncanuck,are you or anybody gonna be around to get it from us?
 
Krzycanuck I honestly feel we wasted our breath talking to the usfs yesterday. I hate to say it but I just really don't see them giving a crap. We know the one solution and it isn't happening. They got agitated when I said their never on the trails to do enforcement but we all know it's true.
 
At some point one has to wonder if they want the problem solved.

Hate to be that guy, but ohv trail management is a small portion of the regional forester's and ranger's job responsibilities and a disproportionate amount of their headaches. If the OHV trails were shut down their job would get easier. I know this was a real factor in the Tellico battle years ago that Noone wanted to admit.

I've been on my soap box for too long, go private or plan on losing every penny and minute you invest.
 
One more comment and my attention goes elsewhere, I guess the "f%^ks given" thread sunk in. I am sincerely grateful for the time and energies spent at both parks. I am also very admittedly unwilling to invest a fraction of the same toward these enterprises. I however have no problem spending my dollars at a few private venues and the UNF on the rare occasions I get to indulge in my 4wd pursuits. I have donated once to the friends of UNF, bout the same times I've played the lottery. Same results. Getting to the point........Keep buying time much like a chance in a stacked lottery? Or look back and realize if all this promotion, education, time, and monies were spent by some sort of coalition owed property? I would not give any "f%^ks" toward its ownership as a wheeler. But I would be damn glad it was a guaranteed win when I bought my ticket for participation. At least the pocket I would be feeding has an invested interest in the plate being served.


:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:To all those who keep up the good fight. But in the end there will be no :driver:in UNF ! And I think it smells like :poop: to keep supporting a Federal :sniper: in the back.
GOD BLESS :usa:.
 
I'm still in... I got a "if it fits,it ships" box full of f@#Ks left and it's not limited to just the OHV/ATV aspects of the area. A question I have in my mind is throwing money (on a club level) at a private park any better when they can collect,open for a short while,and then get shut down either by local zoning issues,local governments,local inhabitants, or any number of reasons that come up.
 
Everyone has there own thing to do. I have chosen to fight this fight as I believe in it. Do I figure one day the trails will get shut down ? Hell YES. Am I going to loose sleep once they do ? No. I will have known I did what I could like the folks before me that have walked away from this. I know most if not all of them also from the past 3 decades. Will I be upset that they close ? Yes. Will I still go up there for the other stuff it offers ? Yes my wife and I will. Will I blame the staff up there ? No I will not. I have 30 years working for the government. Will I blame the folks that caused this to happen ? Heck yes. ( It is not in the garage so can not call them what I want .) Will I still wheel in private parks ? Till I can not drive no more. The government needs to get out of a lot of things. From looking around Ft Bragg they are getting out of the employment area. Do I think in a couple years this place gets handed over to the state ? Yes I do. And i have no clue how it will go from there .

So. Bottom line. I will give it my best. Will I loose sleep over it ? Not a bit. I will be sad to see them go , but I have other places to wheel.
 
UNF is all I got. I will never go to the other parks. For me it URE or nothing.

Been camping, fishing, boating and hiking there for 25 years. Just got back into wheeling last year and have been very disappointed in what I've seen. Our fellow human beings are worthless pigs, and I'm sick of picking up their trash and looking at the rails to keep them in check.

I want to help but having a fundamental problem with the direction the efforts are going holds me back. I cannot put my heart into guard rail installation. Nobody's fault but mine.

I bought my Jeep last year because my kids are grown and I have more time to play. I spent 40-50 days last year on the trails and loved every minute of it. I want this area to stay open. If we can reduce the problem we can stall the inevitable.

I think funding the deputies is a good start. How about a trail patrol? We had one in the MTB community, which has similar problems with abuse, trash and erosion. It's also a good idea for safety reasons.

Just my 2 or 3 cents. I don't want to see the hard work put in be lost.
 
We have talked about a patrol numerous times. I would do it but I am that type of person. I will approach just about anyone. But what happens when we approach the wrong person / group of folks and they in turn pull a gun and shoots our volunteer ? Ya, they go to jail maybe unless they plead they were drunk and not in control of themselves. I know it is a far off thing to think about but it happens everyday out there with people getting shot by stupid people. I have been shot and blown up and would do it still right now but it is not for everyone out there. Then when do you patrol ? At night when the trails are the wild west ? I will not be out there un armed in the dark. Then again I am never not armed when I leave the house but that is not ideal in this type of situation as it can escalate quickly. Then it gets into a he said she said who pulled the trigger first and you are by yourself and they are in a big group who will stick up for each other.
 
Darren,I know you've been over these ideas many times and I apologize for spit-balling. Anybody can be an armchair quarterback and I'm doing that very thing.

I wouldn't have any problem confronting someone, but your right, most people would not. I've always been a little different. Death is inevitable, so unlike most people, I don't get too hung up on the date/place/time/manner.

It sounds like there is no answer and if so, stupid prevails. Ever see Idiocracy? That's where we are headed....
 
Trust me. I am all for patrolling out there. But we need to make sure we know all the odds and try to minimization them. Like in combat. We all also know in combat that as soon as the first bullet flies then the original mission has changed. I am not saying by any way shape or form it would happen out there but we need to be prepared. I would like to think we could go up to them and just talk to them about Tread Lightly but it does not always work out like that.

I wish like no other we had the answer for this but I do not or have seen one approved by both sides.
 
This is awful. Im guessing the guardrail was stolen late at night on a weeknight when trail traffic would be very very low. No way they bought a trail pass. Scum of the earth white trash thieving fidiots.
 
Please don't take my last response as a I don't care attitude. I am far from that! Next weekend I'm actually leading a Boy Scout overnight hike in the area. It is simply my opinion without the FULL support of the Feds and affiliated Gov't bodies to expend large amounts of revenue and time for most folks is pointless. So my reference toward the other thread. If you cannot get them to do the job their position holds they have no interest. Hands tied, budget excuses, blah blah blah. As I get older my contempt for such agencies grows stronger. I have a job and have to do it. They have a job and refuse to do it. Only they, being the legal operating body doing so by underfunding and mismanagement. Sound familiar?? It is the grounds by which Tellico was shut down. Completely aside from the fact that public idiots are steadily ruining efforts it is still being undermined from the top.
 
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