HVAC Question

[Cherokeekid88]

So we had our entire HCAV system replaced back in May. Went from a Lennox AC/30 year old Snyder General Furnace to a Trane XL16i and Trane XV80 furnace. AC portion worked great all summer, super quiet outdoor unit and saw significant savings in our energy consumption. Now that we have gotten our first gas bill, I am not seeing really any savings on the furnace part, also the furnace is LOUD, even louder than our 30 year old Snyder furnace. We can hear this thing firing up from our bedroom, while its downstairs in a utility closet.

Works great, heats up the house very nicely. Just loud and seems like it isn't saving me much money. Says it has two stage heating, but never notice it going in and out but one stage and just wondering if we are missing something here or what.

The company we used is a company my family has used for many years and do a very good job, but trying to talk to them and explain things is like pulling teeth. Thought about getting someone else to come out and take a look at it that is familiar with Trane and can make sure it is setup properly and configured properly.

 

[Paul]

I would consult @jeepinmatt HVAC Company.
He always sez the same same thing though.
Evacuate all humans and pets
And then torch the place.
Just sayin...


But he is a serial arsonist ya know.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Two stage heating usually just means there is a backup source of some kind for when it is super cold. That is probably a set of electric coils. Frankly I'm not sure why you would ever need that though b/c the furnace should always be plenty. But the point is you'll very rarely if ever experience "stage 2".

 

[CasterTroy]

Two stage heating usually just means there is a backup source of some kind for when it is super cold. That is probably a set of electric coils.

I think you have that confused with a heat pump with emergency heat.

Dual stage furnace simply means a gas valve with 2 positions.
Position 1 is good for 80% of the year. Position 2 allows more gas to enter and unleashes the gates of hell in the heat exchanger.

 

[RatLabGuy]

I think you have that confused with a heat pump with emergency heat.

Dual stage furnace simply means a gas valve with 2 positions.
Position 1 is good for 80% of the year. Position 2 allows more gas to enter and unleashes the gates of hell in the heat exchanger.

Ah yes. That makes more sense.

 

[Curtis_H]

I’d make sure they actually wired it up for 2 stage operation. I’ve seen many times installers just jumper the 2 stages together. In turn it operates same as a single stage furnace would. Sometimes this is due to the old thermostat wire does not have enough wires for the extra stages, thermostat don’t support 2 stage heat, or they just don’t know what they are doing.

 

[peewee]

I find most of these 2 stage units are installed improperly. Not all thermostats can control 2 stage heat. And those that can usually need to be programmed to do it correctly. And most installers will wire for both or second stage only and not even use the low stage. On top of this I've seen many units 2 or 3 years old with ugly heat exchangers because of over firing do to improper startup procedures. They put gas to the unit and just let it run without checking any of the gas pressures. Only takes a few minutes to do so but it doesn't happen. Got forbid anyone mention combustion analysis.

 

[CasterTroy]

Only takes a few minutes to do

And a few minutes on the next stop....you're costing the company money!!! What about the 13 OTHER calls you have today?!?!

True Tradesmen are a dying breed, that aren't being replenished by the next generation. I've seen this steady decline since 1995.

I've called 2 of the best crotchety old techs I know, but neither want ANY "new adventures" at this time. I'll reach out to a couple of others I know in the triad. No promises.

 

[Cherokeekid88]

I’d make sure they actually wired it up for 2 stage operation. I’ve seen many times installers just jumper the 2 stages together. In turn it operates same as a single stage furnace would. Sometimes this is due to the old thermostat wire does not have enough wires for the extra stages, thermostat don’t support 2 stage heat, or they just don’t know what they are doing.

I did some digging yesterday and to me, it looks like it is not wired for 2 stages of heat and possibly not set up for 2 stages of cooling either. Our Thermostat DOES offer 2 stage heating/cooling compatibility. I even reset the T stat yesterday to make sure it was setup that way. When I took the cover off and looked at the wires, it looked to be setup the same as my last t stat on my old HVAC system only difference is the added c wire to power the new t stat.
I thought I had read that if it was setup for two stage heating, I should have a wire going to the W2 slot for the 2nd stage of either cooling/heating.

sort of makes me upset that if this is the case, I am not getting a potentially money saving option included in something I paid for. I know it might not make a huge difference, but I have been told that two stage heating will keep your house generally more comfortable.

 

[Cherokeekid88]

I find most of these 2 stage units are installed improperly. Not all thermostats can control 2 stage heat. And those that can usually need to be programmed to do it correctly. And most installers will wire for both or second stage only and not even use the low stage. On top of this I've seen many units 2 or 3 years old with ugly heat exchangers because of over firing do to improper startup procedures. They put gas to the unit and just let it run without checking any of the gas pressures. Only takes a few minutes to do so but it doesn't happen. Got forbid anyone mention combustion analysis.

That's my thing... I just need someone who isn't an A hole or actually talks and wants to help out.

 

[Curtis_H]

I did some digging yesterday and to me, it looks like it is not wired for 2 stages of heat and possibly not set up for 2 stages of cooling either. Our Thermostat DOES offer 2 stage heating/cooling compatibility. I even reset the T stat yesterday to make sure it was setup that way. When I took the cover off and looked at the wires, it looked to be setup the same as my last t stat on my old HVAC system only difference is the added c wire to power the new t stat.
I thought I had read that if it was setup for two stage heating, I should have a wire going to the W2 slot for the 2nd stage of either cooling/heating.

sort of makes me upset that if this is the case, I am not getting a potentially money saving option included in something I paid for. I know it might not make a huge difference, but I have been told that two stage heating will keep your house generally more comfortable.

The Trane a/c unit you have is not capable of 2 stage operation. It only has a single stage compressor. But far as your heat goes it has to be wired correctly, thermostat has to be programmed for 2 stage operation, and with variable speed fan the dip switches on control board need to be set up correctly for your setup. Also make sure they check gas pressure for each stage is correct. (Some furnaces do operate the 2 stage internally and not with the stat but most of the time the thermostat will control the 2nd stage). If you like the company maybe ask them to send out a service tech to check system is configured correctly. (Have then check the variable speed fan setup also) A lot of times this don’t get done correctly, a lot of installers don’t understand what they are changing or how it will effect system or don’t care. The hvac technology is changing fast and I don’t think training is keeping up. There is a shortage of well qualified people that Truley understand what they are doing. There is a lot more to hvac than many people understand. Many tech/installers just turn unit on and if it blows hot or cold air it must be ok. With older single speed/ single stage equipment this may have worked, but with newer multi stage/variable speed equipment you need to configure system correctly to get your efficiency from them.

 

[Curtis_H]

Also not sure what the efficiency of your old furnace was but according to Trane’s website if it was only a 60% afue rating your new 80% furnace will save you about $25 for every $100 spent on fuel. They have furnaces all the way up to 95% efficiency now.

 

[Cherokeekid88]

Yeah, I need someone who can truly help come look at it. The company I use is a small outfit that's been around for a long time, but they just don't really get too personal when it comes to anything outside of what they are required to do. That's good to know that at least the furnace is a 2 stage unit and I really want the most of this system.

Old furnace was manufactured in Jan of 1988, so not sure on its efficiency but 60% probably sounds about right.0

Can anyone recommend someone that would come look at it that actually knows what they are doing?