Is anyone a roofer? Have questions, need roof.

Fabrik8

Fabrik8

Overcomplicator
Joined
May 27, 2015
Location
Huntersville
Edit 2017: I've just re-opened this thread from 2015, as I think it's time for a new roof.

So I've got a gutter that just started falling off of the house, so up onto the ladder I went to see what the problem was. As is my nature, I started poking around while I was up there.

I found out that we have a reroof with a second layer of shingles (I don't really know my roofing terms) and there isn't any drip edge or flashing or anything. The newer re-roof shingles are a few inches longer than the originals, and overhang the fascia and the gutter edge. I can lift that layer up and see the original shingle layer, the fascia, and the exposed edge of the roof sheathing, and a shitload of gravel piled on the fascia. No flashing anywhere on the edge.

Do I need flashing, and are there any problems with the style of re-roof that I have? I thought it was normal to strip down and apply new shingles, not just slap a second layer over a worn out set.

We do have some minor leaking issues when it rains really hard (or for a long time); we have drywall weeps that are coming from the skylight and chimney areas, but I assume that is from the flashing and not the shingles. It needs to be fixed regardless, but it's not a frequent problem. We bought the house almost 2 years ago.

The fascia doesn't seem to be rotten, but they might have been replaced in 2009 during the re-roof (that's when the disclosure said it was done, that's all the info I have).

I'm really disappointed because the previous owner seemed to be very fond of cutting corners, as we found out after we moved in. That would explain the 2 layers of shingles, and the lack of flashing, and the cheap looking shingles that are tan-brown (the house is white and gray, so the roof doesn't match), and the roof weeping.


Anyway, can anyone shed some light about whether flashing is needed? I don't want everything to start rotting.

I hate the roof color, and am thinking about going with a metal roof instead, or at least a better color of shingle. I'm just somehow expecting this roof to fail prematurely, which is starting to become a theme with everything that has been badly redone in this house over the years.

Are metal roofs expensive?
 
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You don't have to have drip edge at the edges of the roof. If roofed properly it won't leak there. And it is common for people to opt to put a second layer of shingles over the old ones if there is no current leaks and wood damage. It saves money by not paying for a tear off. I don't recommend it but it's done all the time.

Metal isn't a lot more expensive than shingles and I prefer it. I do a lot of commercial standing seam roofs these days but used to do a good bit of master rib which is what most put on houses.

Here is pic of a standing seam roof I just finished couple weeks ago on the rowan county animal shelter. Its 24ga standing seam. Thats what I'll be putting on the next house I build for the wife and I.
 

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And I would check to see if there is even flashing on the skylight and chimney. The motard that roofed my house before we bought it just used tar. And I see that done far too often.
 
That roof looks amazing. I tend to lean toward things that look clean and modern, so that checks all the boxes. I will need a roof for the big garage being built next to the house this spring/summer, so may consider doing metal on that and the house.

I'll check for the flashing around the chimney, etc. I know there's a lot of tar, but can't tell from the ground.
 
BTW, do you ever get down to the Huntersville area? I'd really like to explore the metal options in the context of the upcoming garage build, etc.
 
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We work all over. Finished a goodwill in Boone not long ago. We're redoing the tanglewood barn and manor house right now. Got a big church in Greensboro going on and I'm just finishing the siding on that animal shelter. We are supposed to be starting a few new SECU's in Concord Sparta and Cary soon so I should be close to Huntersville with the concord job.
 
Dumbasses that roofed our house turned the chimney flashing up onto the brick and ran a little bead of sealant across the top edge.

Needless to say, it wasn't water tight.

Everything else Yota said is spot on.

I'm not a fan of that face-screwed shit. Spend a bunch of money on a metal roof that's supposed to last forever, then depend on a thousand little gaskets to last for 50 years.
 
Are you sure your second layer of singles isn't just the starter row? It will be double layer at the bottom course for sure. I've seen a row run up the sides too for some reason.

As for the leak, if it leaks when it rains hard it leaks period. Pay a roofer to properly cut in the flashing.
 
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The starter is run up the rake to give a nice straight uniform line that hides the cut end. Its purely for looks. I think he has 2 roofs since he said the bottom layer is cut back a few inches. That is normally what is done when adding another layer.
 
I'll check out that edge in a little while when I replace the gutter hangers this afternoon, but I think there's at least two shingle layers underneath at the (old) edge, so that would be the original two layers plus the newer longer layers on top. I think I'm starting to understand here. Roofing is not my area.

Does it make the new shingles fail faster if they are put over old shingles?

I have a hard time with houses because it really bugs me when things aren't done properly. That's probably why I don't build houses, because no one would want to pay for them. This is a really nice house, it just needs to be updated and have the poorly re-done stuff done properly. Like the windows, which were all re-glazed in the past and are now worse than if they were never touched in the first place (it's never good to see daylight between the glass edge and the sash). New windows are on the horizon.
 
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Many areas actually have codes regarding how many layers of shingles are acceptable. Ive seen 2 and 3.

If I am not mistaken shingle manufacturers do not warranty shingles installed over an old layer. Ostensibly because of the trapped heat of the second layer slowing dissipation and shortening life. Whether or not it really effects lifespan or its just a warranty "out" I have no clue.
 
IIRC, NC allows only 2 roof layers then you have to tear off when you need your 3rd roof.

For a flip, it's easy to just install the new roof over the old and save the $. For your home you plan to be in for a while, I would recommend removing the old roof so you can inspect the wood and address any problem areas that you may not see
 
Ron said:
If I am not mistaken shingle manufacturers do not warranty shingles installed over an old layer. Ostensibly because of the trapped heat of the second layer slowing dissipation and shortening life. Whether or not it really effects lifespan or its just a warranty "out" I have no clue.
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Correct, the 3 companies that quoted my roof all said the same thing, the warranty is void if you put it over the old layer.
 
Cool, that makes me feel great about the lifespan of the new shingles. :(

I have 2 layers at the edge of each layer (old and new), so at least they did that part correctly.

I just vacuumed about 40 pounds of shingle gravel out of that section of gutter too. Then it started raining, so I'm seeing if my gutter hangers worked.
 
Fabrik8 said:
I have a hard time with houses because it really bugs me when things aren't done properly. That's probably why I don't build houses, because no one would want to pay for them.
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Quoted for truth. As a machinist and engineer, I struggle with anything wood or plastic related because it's not consistent.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Quoted for truth. As a machinist and engineer, I struggle with anything wood or plastic related because it's not consistent.
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Tell me about it. I got a couple 2x10's for a header in a shed I'm building. One measured 9.125" the other was 9.5" what quality control.
 
Fabrik8 said:
That's probably why I don't build houses, because no one would want to pay for them.
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I've always said that if most people knew how houses were built, they wouldn't set foot inside of them. :lol:

Not to derail the thread, but with the metal roof retrofits, anybody know (@YotaOnRocks ?) what they're doing for condensation on the underside from vapor drive? Full ice and water shield? I could see a scenario where your "lifetime" roof fails in ten or twenty years because the sheathing rotted out from under it. Just a thought that occurred to me while reading this thread and this one.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Quoted for truth. As a machinist and engineer, I struggle with anything wood or plastic related because it's not consistent.
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I hate wood, but I like engineering plastics like Delrin just fine. My mailbox base is made out of scrap 3/4" Delrin, and the bulk value is probably worth almost as much as the expensive powdercoated mailbox on top of it.
 
shawn said:
Not to derail the thread, but with the metal roof retrofits, anybody know (@YotaOnRocks ?) what they're doing for condensation on the underside from vapor drive? Full ice and water shield? I could see a scenario where your "lifetime" roof fails in ten or twenty years because the sheathing rotted out from under it. Just a thought that occurred to me while reading this thread and this one.
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Not derailing anything. Perfectly on topic, as I'm considering said retrofit...
 
We typically use a peel and stick underlayment because our roofs come with what they call a water tight warranty. Means the manufacturer guarantees that it won't leak water inside for 45years. With that it can't have any penetration through the paper except for pipes,hoods,etc. But the metal manufacturers recommend at minimum a synthetic paper under the metal such as repel or titanium paper. Main thing is that whatever goes underneath isn't abrassive.
 
Oh, and we have cathedral ceilings on much of the house. Vented at least, soffit to ridge. Don't really know what they used for a vent system through. That's the other thing that makes me scared about having 2 layers of shingles.

That peel and stick sounds cool, that's a pretty modern product from what the interwebs say.
 
shawn said:
Dumbasses that roofed our house turned the chimney flashing up onto the brick and ran a little bead of sealant across the top edge.

Needless to say, it wasn't water tight.
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They simply did half the job. They were supposed to cut into the joints in the brick above the turned up flashing, roll an edge on some more flashing and cover down over all of that.
 
OnlyOneDR said:
They simply did half the job. They were supposed to cut into the joints in the brick above the turned up flashing, roll an edge on some more flashing and cover down over all of that.
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Oh, I well know what they were *supposed* to do.
 
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