Is this the right HEI/DUI upgrade for my 258?

danattherock

Active Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Location
NC
Found this informative upgrade info online. Talking about HEI and mentions the $300 DUI kit. I am interested in putting the MC 2100 on my 258 in my 81 CJ 7. To be honest, I just don't know what to order. Got a mechanic who will do the install, but I don't want to rely on him to order all the right parts for what appears to be a rather specific CJ upgrade. Below is the article with pics. It is in two parts (links).

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/project-cj7/project-cj7-HEI.htm
 
Brent, I believe the instructions you linked to are for folks that ALREADY have a Motorcraft dizzy. IIRC, an '81 likely has either points or Prestolite(junk), so he'd need a different dizzy to begin with. Where's the full monte from Aaron (JYG/TeamRush)? :flipoff2:

But I do agree with DIY. That $300 DUI system is fine for those that will never have to troubleshoot an issue in the woods. For those that wheel, it's a given you'll need to be familiar with it, and when you do, you'll thank us (& yourself) for the knowledge gained from assembling/installing/tuning/"figuring it out" it yourself. Don't be "that guy" out on the trail that only knows where the gas filler is and is clueless about the other 99.9% of his rig.
 
Don't be "that guy" out on the trail that only knows where the gas filler is and is clueless about the other 99.9% of his rig.


I have a lot to learn then:)

Like I said, had her since I was 15. Nothing broke, nothing failed, nothing upgraded. So I have not had much of a chance to learn anything. But man, you should see my Armour All skills. ha ha ha...
 
Don't let Caver get you down. Just because he knows what broke on his rig doesn't mean he can fix it...
4wd.com has had the HEI distributors on sale for $99.99 lately.
Click Here to see the one for your rig.
 
Don't let Caver get you down. Just because he knows what broke on his rig doesn't mean he can fix it...
4wd.com has had the HEI distributors on sale for $99.99 lately.
Click Here to see the one for your rig.
Agreed...I just put one of these on the YJ that I'm trying to sell. Vey easy install and one wire hook up. I also run the mc2100 carb. Easy to tune and gets rid of all those anoying vacume lines.
 
Im a big fan of pertronix....not AS good as a true High Energy Ignition system, but less than $100 and 1 wire hookup for a hall effect pick up and 1 wire installation....not bad.
 
Thanks for the input on this guys. Could anyone tell me how these suggestions compare to the $300 DUI kit. I am not sure if they fully take the place of the DUI or if I would need other parts. The DUI sounds like a one piece item that would take the place of several on my stock 258. The simplicity is appealing and I don't mind paying $300 for it if it is worth doing. I am planning on the MC 2100. Not sure exactly what I need to order for the ignition/distributer part of the upgrade to go with it. Thanks for any thoughts. And thanks for your patience as well. I know I know I DKS, but I appreciate you guys being kind in not reminding me:)
 
Pertronix uses your existing distributor and replaces the points and condensor.

Quite honestly the MC2100 is nice, but Id be tempted to go all the way to an EFI solution really is no comparison.

Then again stock carbs dont keep me up at night.
 
Could anyone tell me how these suggestions compare to the $300 DUI kit

IMHO, the DUI is nothing more than a overpriced HEI & a set of bling wires... all had for $150 (or less) elsewhere.

Quite honestly the MC2100 is nice, but Id be tempted to go all the way to an EFI solution really is no comparison

Ditto... building your own FI is yet another place to gain insight in "how it works"!
 
IMHO, the DUI is nothing more than a overpriced HEI & a set of bling wires... all had for $150 (or less) elsewhere.
x2 It's a gm distributor with a fancy decal on the coil cover. The links i posted earlier show how to do everything, and do it at a reasonable cost. If you don't trust junkyard parts, you can get them from a parts store for about $125. Just swap the drive gear and your good to go.
 
Just read over those links again. I had saw in another HEI write up that a MSD ignition was added at the same time of the swap. Is that also needed on the parts list? I think it was the "Team Rush" upgrade that kept the factory distributer. Anyone using this? I have read lots of reports of "gear chewing" with the distributor swaps.
 
The link I posted has everything you need, minus the wires for less than $100.
Add a good set of wires for about $40, get rid of the ballast resistor on the firewall so that you are sending the HEI a good 12+v and watch it start with about a half turn of the flywheel, even in sub 20* weather.
I have been running this setup on mine, with a "Super Coil" for about 5 years. My drive gear is just fine. You will be adding this during a rebuild, correct? Then the new drive gear and cam gear will be meshing from the start.
The TFI/Teamrush upgrade is nice, but more parts and more wires equal more points of failure.
Mine has 2 things that can go wrong:
The 12v wire breaks, or
the ignition module under the cap goes bad.
I keep a spare module in a ziplock bag in my trailbox. It was $16 and has a lifetime warranty. If I use it, I can take the old one in and get a new one.
 
Thanks for the info. I do appreciate it. But I am not going to swap out the distributer. Worried about the gear chewing I keep reading about. Going to do the "teamrush" upgrade instead. Sounds like a very simple way to get more spark. Easy install too. Planning on doing the MC 2100 at the same time. Still finding my way, but this sounds like a package that would bring my 258 up to par a bit. I hope.:rolleyes:


Team rush upgrade...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=669495
 
Don't sweat the hardened distributor gears if you buy from a quality manufacturer.

That "Team Rush" is nothing more than retrofitting a larger cap and rotor on your stock distributor, and adding a different coil.

All stuff that HEI unit comes with....and with the Team Rush, which is more properly called the Ford Large Cap upgrade, you still have your ancient stock distributor.
Plus, it's not going to run much better unless you start changing the advance springs in your Motorcraft distributor, which is a pain on those.
The guy that started that Team Rush name is some dude who's been banned multiple times on multiple forums......claims the 20+year old large cap upgrade that FORD came up with as his own. Then denies it. Then claims it again.
He's a very knowledgeable guy about ignitions, but hates HEI's for some reason, and has invented all these horror stories about how many problems they have other than the bad gears......even though they made FAR more of them for more years than the Motorcraft, and nearly every manufacturer makes and aftermarket version of the HEI, but none of the Motorcraft. (that I know of)
Seriously....do you see anyone making Motorcraft distributors for Chevy, Dodge, Pontiac, etc, engines?

There are HEI's that are fine for your 6 cylinder:

DUI..the best, and it's expensive, but custom-curved to your engine. And no, it's NOT just a stock HEI with a different sticker.

Bulltear...AMC racing experts. They have a good HEI.

MSD. Theirs won't hurt your cam gear.

Mallory. Theirs won't, either.

I honestly wouldn't be afraid of CRT performance, either. If you're worried about their gears, it takes about 30 seconds to tell if you have a hardened one or not. (shouldn't be one anymore)

Other option for an AMC 258: Get a Chevy 250 6-cylinder HEI, the AMC gear goes right on it, and the distributor goes right in a 258. Google it. Great option.

The hardened gears are mostly off the market now....you COULD buy a cheap HEI and just swap on an MSD or Bulltear gear, and that'd still be pretty cheap.

There's nothing wrong with the large cap upgrade, but if your engine already runs fine, then simply adding a larger cap is not going to help a thing. Adding the coil and opening the plug gap might make it feel like it starts and revs a bit quicker, but that's mostly a placebo.
Every person that I've seen on the Jeepforum who has claimed a dramatic improvement with the large cap upgrade either already had a running problem, or was doing it in conjunction with other mods.
Never seen anyone who did it on a perfectly-running engine and claim an improvement. In other words, if your engine is running badly and needs a tune-up, then doing the "team rush/large cap upgrade/TFI swap" will certainly fix it....as would just tuning it up with stock replacement parts.

An HEI will also do the same thing, plus will give you a better "seat of the pants" improvement due to its quicker advance. Plus, they are more reliable than the Motorcraft ignition and you can find parts for HEI's anywhere.

Think of it this way: With the TFI/Team Rush upgrade, you have to: Replace cap/rotor/advance springs/coil/fab a mount for the coil to get the same thing that a brand-new HEI will get you.....PLUS, you'll still have a 28 year old distributor in your Jeep. And it's more work.
And it's really not cheaper by much if you buy the parts new.

The proponent of the Team Rush also tells you that you can do a "stealth HEI" module later....which consists of gutting your Duracrap module and wiring in an HEI module, which he admits is more reliable.
So of your factory ignition, you have the distributor body itself left. Everything else is replaced.

Now, price a cap adapter, rotor, cap, advance springs, coil, HEI module, whatever you need to make the coil bracket, and tell me that's significantly cheaper or better than ripping all that crap out and sticking that HEI (other than DUI, more expensive) in there?

Looks to me like that "upgrade" is just trying to make the Motorcraft system more comparable with the HEI.
 
I had to read that twice, but I get it. Thanks for the lengthly reply. It is appreciated. The DUI system is sounding better already.

The biggest concern I had was the gear grinding. I even see on 4wd Hardware that the gears only have one hole in them, requiring you to drill the other hole. This is consistent with the hardness testing that is said to be done before putting it in to avoid gear grinding. So if the gears are no longer a problem, I am unsure why they only come with one predrilled hole.

The second issue, the team rush upgrade, I can do myself. Not so confident on swapping out the distributer.

I read up on that swap, but to be honest, got a little confused with the making sure the cylinder is top dead center bit. Simple for those that know how, but to me, it was like reading Portugese. If I were to go the route you suggest, the DUI kit looks attractive.

Just unsure about installing it myself. I am putting in the MC 2100 at the same time. Don't want to get in over my head. If I have to pay someone to do this, I am dropping a grand at least.
 
Sorry about my post, I kept remembering stuff and editing it.

Installing a distributor is pretty easy. Even if you haven't done it before, there's so much info on the 'net that you should be able to get it in the without too much problem.

Plus, surely you know someone who could lend a hand.

Never done that carb swap, you're on your own there. ;)

Oh, the gears only come with one pre-drilled hole so can line them up perfectly. You install the gear, run the drill bit through the one hole and through the shaft, then drill out the other side. Evidently there is some difference in AMC shafts. MSD gears come this way, too.

Essentially what the larger cap that Ford came up with did, was make the distributor comparable to an HEI, which already has a large cap. They copied the HEI posts, too.

Don't believe that crap you can read about HEI's arcing inside the cap and welding the advance weights, blowing through rotors, etc. That's all a bunch of crap that the anti-HEI folks on other forums have been purporting. I've drag raced for years, and used HEI's quite a bit of that time. I had one with a stock module on a big block Chevy, with 12-1 compression and about 625hp. Turned it over 7k a few times (not on purpose) and it never missed a beat with that old HEI. Changed to an MSD 6AL, and I thought it started a bit quicker and sounded snappier. But it ran the exact same times.

If you let your plugs get worn completely out, with like a .080" gap, you might see some funny things happen, but I tend to think that anyone with a Jeep these days will never drive it enough to get that kind of wear....even if they did neglect tune ups for enough time for this to occur. Keep it tuned up, you won't have problems....and if you do, it's easily fixable, and parts are readily available.

BTW...the "originator" of the Team Rush deal claims that you shouldn't "ever" gap your plugs to .055 or higher like DUI and other makers tell you to, or it'll create problems and won't help.

The OWNER of DUI, Mr Davis, told me in a PM that they've been gapping plugs as high as .070" and seeing results on dyno tests for years, with no negative repercussions. I tend to believe the people who have actually done the testing, rather than some internet jockey who delights in having a forum full of n00bs who think he's a god.

Think of it this way: Why would a company that obviously wants to be viewed as reputable and selling a great product recommend something that would cause a problem with that product? They're not idiots. If my choice is to believe some self-appointed "genius" on the internet who sounds knowledgeable or a well-known company with years of great service which is acknowledged by that "genius", I'll choose the well-known company every time.
 
Plus, they are more reliable than the Motorcraft ignition

I keep seeing this repeated over & over, but... my OEM (read: at LEAST 30 year old) blue grommet Motorcraft box is in it's 3rd vehicle (got it from R. Britt when I bought the 304, was in his CJ, & came from a JY) and hasn't missed a lick in 6 years. OTOH, I can't discount doing it right from the get go... I used a factory DS harness as opposed to monkey crimping connectors. I ended up giving away the brand new NAPA spare I carried after a few years.

I know some folks have problems, but they'll never tell you their wiring is a rat's nest or they were trying to run cheap modules from Bangladesh... just that DS is bad. Brent did the HEI module on his after frying a couple $10 ChinaZone DS boxes and hasn't had any problems, but it hasn't got more than an hour runtime since :rolleyes:

I'll likely go to the ECM controlled version of the HEI module when I start the TBI swap.

I just don't think blanket statements like HEI is better than DS or the Mopar box for that matter are fair, given the many variables...
 
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