ITT Tech Closing

jeepinmatt

jeepinmatt

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That sounds like a fair and balanced bit of journalism.

:rolleyes:

Sorry, it's so deep into the land of democrat-hating, tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theory that I can't even read it.

Apparently ITT was cooking the books a lot with their finances and a lot of student loan and Pell funds (which the Gov't doesn't look kindly upon), lots of fraud charges, and also had a lot of legal battles with lawsuits from students who were sold a bill of goods (job placement, long list of other empty sales pitches) from a shoddy school that couldn't meet accreditation standards. Also got in trouble for failing to disclose repayment terms for in-house loans and then kicking students out of school because of it? It's a very long list of problems apparently. And then there's the massive downward spiral of enrollment (prospective students starting doing research into the school all of a sudden?)...

I know it's more convoluted than that, but I would really doubt that it got shut down by the Obama administration because they wouldn't pay bribe money to the Clintons or whatever the article was alleging. Seriously, I couldn't read it.
 
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What pisses me off about this is the fact that they closed because they can no longer receive Federal financial aid. Have we as Americans become so dependent on federal hand outs that even a tech trade school is unaffordable to the point of closing its doors for good? I paid for my Advertising degree from Michigan State with my own money. Not daddy's money, not student loans, no Pell Grant. Just cash, earned the old fashioned way by moving pianos, starting a business, selling spring break trips and hawking pizza for Dominos at the football games.

I went without in order to finance my education - knowing that one day it would pay for itself with a decent paying job. With enough drive and hustle it can be done.
 
Friend of mine in Cali was going there, now only her basic credits transfer and she's in loan debt. Really shitty how they didn't want them and just closed the doors for this semester


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If you read into the less biased articles you see that:

ITT Tech was providing a marginal education at an expensive cost.
Federal loans were being used for ITT Tech tuition
Students had massive student loan debt for a marginal education that got them a low paying job. I think they were at like $18k per year for tuition.
Govt basically said "if we are going to continuing financing your students, you need to cough up some collateral to cover this shit" and ITT was like "eff ewe we're shutting down and going to blame it all on you."

Kind of like the "New Horizons" or My Computer Career or whatever that place is. I have a friend who works in an IT call center, he never had any IT training other than being good with computers and good at figuring stuff out. His best friend spent over $20k to go to New Horizons, and they work side by side in the place, making the same money. Only difference is that my buddy is not $20k in student loan debt.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
Friend of mine in Cali was going there, now only her basic credits transfer and she's in loan debt. Really shitty how they didn't want them and just closed the doors for this semester
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I saw somewhere that there's loan/debt relief to cancel the loan debt in cases where the school has broken laws or committed fraud or closed, so there may be a silver lining. Also I think you can do a full Federal loan/aid cancel if other schools don't accept any of the credits...?

We'll have to see how things pan out in the coming months with lawsuits or whatever.


Edit: I knew I remembered reading that somewhere in the context of ITT recently:

Here's what's in store for the 40,000 students left without a school now that ITT Tech has closed

Now That ITT Tech Is Closed, What Options Do Students Have?
 
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ManglerYJ said:
What pisses me off about this is the fact that they closed because they can no longer receive Federal financial aid. Have we as Americans become so dependent on federal hand outs that even a tech trade school is unaffordable to the point of closing its doors for good? I paid for my Advertising degree from Michigan State with my own money. Not daddy's money, not student loans, no Pell Grant. Just cash, earned the old fashioned way by moving pianos, starting a business, selling spring break trips and hawking pizza for Dominos at the football games.

I went without in order to finance my education - knowing that one day it would pay for itself with a decent paying job. With enough drive and hustle it can be done.
Click to expand...

Not really sure when you went to school, but if you're 44...I'd say roughly 1990, and I'm not one to harp on the war on wages...but minimum wage then was the equivalent of about $7 today. Meaning, wages haven't gone up, but the cost of school has increased 3-5x's what it was.

Tuition and Fees and Room and Board over Time, 1975-76 to 2015-16, Selected Years - Trends in Higher Education - The College Board

Minimum wage since 1938 - CNNMoney
 
For profit universities (the majority of them) are a joke and sell hopes and dreams to people. I couldn't tell you how many people came out of those places when I did recruiting and were under the impression they were awesome and deserved 50k+ a year but really are worth about 15/hr. I hope more of these places shut down.
 
ManglerYJ said:
I went without in order to finance my education - knowing that one day it would pay for itself with a decent paying job.
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I did that too, and still needed student loans, and it is paying for itself now.

I'm not sure how you found enough time in the day to work low paying jobs and get enough money to afford tuition.. I had a decently paying technician job in school, it helped to defray costs (I love that term) but there was no way it was going to pay for tuition during engineering school full time. Probably wouldn't even pay enough if I didn't go to class, didn't study, and didn't do the silly amounts of homework and project work every day. I think some of my friends went out to the bars, but that's just anecdotal as far as I'm concerned. I think I picked the wrong major.

DSM Turbos said:
For profit universities (the majority of them) are a joke and sell hopes and dreams to people. I couldn't tell you how many people came out of those places when I did recruiting and were under the impression they were awesome and deserved 50k+ a year but really are worth about 15/hr. I hope more of these places shut down.
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Way back when, we interviewed a bunch of ITT grads (like 5 before we got wise) to backfill my technician role when I left to go back to school, and then we gave up. We told the school to stop sending resumes.
My wife went to MCI (Medical Careers Institute) and it was the same bill-of-goods bullshit, but she's a badass and got a good job out of it (she already had a proper major/minor college degree to show she could think). Then the bottom dropped out of the field she was in, and now she does something different.

We always laugh about the amount of schools popping up that have certificate programs, and how many industries won't hire you for something unless you have a certificate in it. It's really bad in the medical industry... It's a fabricated need that can be sold in order for a school to make money by promising employers candidates that are prepared. My wife would need 7 or 8 certificates to get hired now for the same job that she did for 10 years without any of the certificates.
I think my sister in law saw a job that required a certificate for something loosely related to phone etiquette for a reception position...? I hope it was a 1-day course, with a generous amount of time for lunch.
 
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DSM Turbos said:
For profit universities (the majority of them) are a joke and sell hopes and dreams to people. I couldn't tell you how many people came out of those places when I did recruiting and were under the impression they were awesome and deserved 50k+ a year but really are worth about 15/hr. I hope more of these places shut down.
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I actually think that might be more of the generation. I'm hiring an analyst with 0-3 years experience. Ended up costing me 70k...that's just the market for that skill set. I couldn't believe it, I came out of school in the same field making less than half of that. Didn't start making that until 5 years of experience as a controller of an aerospace facility. Hell, even the scrubs were wanting $50k. All the recruiting firms told me this is becoming the norm because they're not having to battle with guys with 10 years experience willing to take that entry level job, just to put food on the table, like I did.
 
UTfball68 said:
I actually think that might be more of the generation. I'm hiring an analyst with 0-3 years experience. Ended up costing me 70k...that's just the market for that skill set. I couldn't believe it, I came out of school in the same field making less than half of that. Didn't start making that until 5 years of experience as a controller of an aerospace facility. Hell, even the scrubs were wanting $50k. All the recruiting firms told me this is becoming the norm because they're not having to battle with guys with 10 years experience willing to take that entry level job, just to put food on the table, like I did.
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It was everything from 20 year olds to 55 year olds, it wasn't just one generation. They put a hard sale on these people to get them to sign up.
 
UTfball68 said:
I actually think that might be more of the generation. I'm hiring an analyst with 0-3 years experience. Ended up costing me 70k...that's just the market for that skill set. I couldn't believe it, I came out of school in the same field making less than half of that. Didn't start making that until 5 years of experience as a controller of an aerospace facility. Hell, even the scrubs were wanting $50k. All the recruiting firms told me this is becoming the norm because they're not having to battle with guys with 10 years experience willing to take that entry level job, just to put food on the table, like I did.
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It's just the market in some fields. Many fields still don't pay very well when fresh out of school, especially when it comes to smaller companies. That's why everyone loves those big-company recruiters when in school..
 
UTfball68 said:
Not really sure when you went to school, but if you're 44...I'd say roughly 1990, and I'm not one to harp on the war on wages...but minimum wage then was the equivalent of about $7 today. Meaning, wages haven't gone up, but the cost of school has increased 3-5x's what it was.

Tuition and Fees and Room and Board over Time, 1975-76 to 2015-16, Selected Years - Trends in Higher Education - The College Board

Minimum wage since 1938 - CNNMoney
Click to expand...


Actually, minimum wage back then was somewhere between $3-4 an hour. I considered myself lucky to snag a job at Marshall Music moving pianos for $5 an hour. It was hard work for a scrawny kid. That's why I sold stuff. Spring Break trips, advertising space on calendars and discount cards, bought and sold cars from police auctions, pizza, you name it. I also worked as the resident manager of our apartment complex for free rent. Time management was key, but so was not partying. I drank more at my bachelor party than I did all through college.

You nailed it when you said 1990. Graduated high school in 90, graduated MSU in 1993. My grades were crap because half of my freshmen year transferred in from community college as pass/fail which equated to a 2.0 GPA. I knew that even if I aced every other class I wouldn't make the Dean's list, so I just did enough to pass the classes. At that point, all that mattered was degree or no degree.

I was fortunate that I picked a cheaper field to get into. My brother went the engineering route and his tuition would have killed me. He also makes like 2.5 times what I earned at my peak salary, so I guess it's worth it.
 
This had Nothing to do with Obama. I just read an article in the WSJ that a dozen states were investigating ITT for their fraudulent practices.
 
My brother in law graduated from DeVry some time last year or so with some BA degree in marketing or something. He still works as a painter for someone else and says he's going to use his degree next year. Used all student loans.
 
UTfball68 said:
Not really sure when you went to school, but if you're 44...I'd say roughly 1990, and I'm not one to harp on the war on wages...but minimum wage then was the equivalent of about $7 today. Meaning, wages haven't gone up, but the cost of school has increased 3-5x's what it was.

Tuition and Fees and Room and Board over Time, 1975-76 to 2015-16, Selected Years - Trends in Higher Education - The College Board

Minimum wage since 1938 - CNNMoney
Click to expand...
As mentioned, sadly these days it is all but impossible to work and save up enough $$ for tuition to a 4 year college, or even several 2-year programs. Tuition has gotten to be so outrageously expensive that pretty much your only options are either (1) mom & dad start saving early, (2) you take out loans or (3) you just wait and work awhile yourself first. As a parent w/ a kid heading off in 6 years the projected numbers are plain ridiculous. My kids will have to really want it b/c they'll have to work like hell to find the $$ unless something changes.

re: ITT, yeah the writing has been on the wall for them for awhile. Not Obama's fault, frankly as mentioned I think the .gov did the right thing here by saying "We're not gonna keep forking over people's tax money for this ridiculous shit".
 
Biggest problem I see with college is everyone thinks they have to go to college. Stop being a lazy ass and learn what hard work is. I say that as I'm finishing my second degree. I see several job fields that are about to have a whole lot of chiefs and not a lot of Indians.... then guess who gets to be the workers the ones that just graduated with a degree and has 20-60,000 in student loans and you get the bottom of the pole job

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Loganwayne said:
Biggest problem I see with college is everyone thinks they have to go to college. Stop being a lazy ass and learn what hard work is. I say that as I'm finishing my second degree. I see several job fields that are about to have a whole lot of chiefs and not a lot of Indians.... then guess who gets to be the workers the ones that just graduated with a degree and has 20-60,000 in student loans and you get the bottom of the pole job
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THAT is the truth. College was sold to an entire generation of people as "the only way". Now that we have crap tons of people with degrees and no real-world skills they are all upset that "lesser" people are getting jobs (mostly because they learned trades). I am really hopeful that the college myth is about to be snoped with the glut of useless degrees and "schools" out there. If people would ever get back to learning trades we could start making forward progress again. For now, idle stupidity.
 
Loganwayne said:
Biggest problem I see with college is everyone thinks they have to go to college. Stop being a lazy ass and learn what hard work is. I say that as I'm finishing my second degree. I see several job fields that are about to have a whole lot of chiefs and not a lot of Indians.... then guess who gets to be the workers the ones that just graduated with a degree and has 20-60,000 in student loans and you get the bottom of the pole job

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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It was bound to run out of runway. At one point, knowing the alphabet was enough...then elementary, then middle school...then as recently as the 70's, graduate high school and get a good paying manufacturing job. Want a leg up on those folks, get an associates/tech degree. You see the pattern. The masses can only get so much education before everyone is on the same playing field again.

I'll say this, I worked machine shops, and a few summers in an un-air conditioned shop in NC was enough for me to want to get an education that allowed me to sit on my ass in a comfy chair. That said, those pieces of paper mean jack shit, other than I could complete a long term task. At the end of the day, people can do well in either a white collar or blue collar world. I think what most folks forget these days is that the vast majority of jobs in either world, are sub-$50k/yr jobs...doesn't matter if you're a welder or an accountant...you want more, you're going to have to work for it.

This is another rant brought to you by Ben
 
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Loganwayne said:
Biggest problem I see with college is everyone thinks they have to go to college. Stop being a lazy ass and learn what hard work is. I say that as I'm finishing my second degree. I see several job fields that are about to have a whole lot of chiefs and not a lot of Indians.... then guess who gets to be the workers the ones that just graduated with a degree and has 20-60,000 in student loans and you get the bottom of the pole job

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
This is about to become a huge problem too. As the trades community ages out and moved towards retirement, we have no real replacement for them. Kids are being pushed towards a higher education path that maybe isn't right for them because it's the "only" way towards a high paying job. That's bullshit.

Education systems need to prioritize students based on what paths they want to choose rather than forcing everyone to prepare for a four year university. Working on giving students access to early technical colleges while in high school is critical to our future workforce, especially in more rural areas of the state. Shoring up the community college experience is important too. The quality of education at a community college has declined in the past 10-15 years.
 
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