Let the hate flow…but I’m a huge fan

ponykilr

ponykilr

Old Crow
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Location
Lowgap
www.teslarati.com

Tesla Model S Plaid wins Pikes Peak’s Exhibition Class in dominating fashion

The excitement was palpable at the base of Pikes Peak as this year’s racecars lined up for their attempt at conquering the treacherous mountain. The mountain already won a round this year, as its weather conditions forced the Pikes Peak committee to shorten the course. Yet as legendary racecar...
www.teslarati.com www.teslarati.com

Incredible performance.

Once a viable battery exchange/recycling program is implemented, Tesla will begin to move toward mainstream acceptance. I would love to own a Plaid.



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ponykilr said:
Once a viable battery exchange/recycling program is implemented, Tesla will begin to move toward mainstream acceptance. I would love to own a Plaid.
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I may be wrong and I've been wrong before, but take it from a dude that works in the EV industry (me), that's not happening.

ManglerYJ said:
The irony of Nikola Tesla. First Thomas Edison takes credit for his work, then a company takes his name on something he had little to do with and makes a fortune off it.
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Dude's dead. Not sure he cares. I see this more of an homage than anything.

If it wasn't for people trying to understand where the Tesla name come from, most would be ignorant about his achievements.






BTW, Randy Pobst is a badass and I'm super glad for the comeback he made with the EV car at Pikes Peak. Last year sucked for him.
 
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My only knock(s) on EV's will forever and always be charging times and charging locations. Where I travel, I'm not sure I've ever seen stations (but I believe they are/can be programmed in to the GPS). The amount of anxiety I got from the recent gas shortage while 400miles away from home with 3/4 of tank, I'm not willing to do that on every long trip I take. Well why don't I just plot my trip around charging stations...valid question...length of time to charge. I'm pretty sure I saw even rapid charging from 0-100% is 40 minutes, fast and slow charging are 6-33hrs (depending on model). That doesn't really make it convenient, I'd either be stopping every time I hit 75% for the same 10min stop I take at gas stations, or I'm waiting and trying to entertain kids. If I could get 10-12hrs of drive time at 80-90mph, I wouldn't hesitate. Or if I lived in or just bought a commuter to Charlotte, I'd probably be a lot more inclined. At this stage in life, it just doesn't seem to fit my driving style/environment.
 
UTfball68 said:
My only knock(s) on EV's will forever and always be charging times and charging locations. Where I travel, I'm not sure I've ever seen stations (but I believe they are/can be programmed in to the GPS). The amount of anxiety I got from the recent gas shortage while 400miles away from home with 3/4 of tank, I'm not willing to do that on every long trip I take. Well why don't I just plot my trip around charging stations...valid question...length of time to charge. I'm pretty sure I saw even rapid charging from 0-100% is 40 minutes, fast and slow charging are 6-33hrs (depending on model). That doesn't really make it convenient, I'd either be stopping every time I hit 75% for the same 10min stop I take at gas stations, or I'm waiting and trying to entertain kids. If I could get 10-12hrs of drive time at 80-90mph, I wouldn't hesitate. Or if I lived in or just bought a commuter to Charlotte, I'd probably be a lot more inclined. At this stage in life, it just doesn't seem to fit my driving style/environment.
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And just think, 80 years ago people said the exact same thing about gas stations.

Give it time, the infrastructure will happen.
And a major advantage is that the "infrastructure" to make a charging station is way easier than for gasoline. All you need is an electrical line.

re: charging time - that is rapidly decreasing with better battery and heat management tech.
 
UTfball68 said:
My only knock(s) on EV's will forever and always be charging times and charging locations. Where I travel, I'm not sure I've ever seen stations (but I believe they are/can be programmed in to the GPS). The amount of anxiety I got from the recent gas shortage while 400miles away from home with 3/4 of tank, I'm not willing to do that on every long trip I take. Well why don't I just plot my trip around charging stations...valid question...length of time to charge. I'm pretty sure I saw even rapid charging from 0-100% is 40 minutes, fast and slow charging are 6-33hrs (depending on model). That doesn't really make it convenient, I'd either be stopping every time I hit 75% for the same 10min stop I take at gas stations, or I'm waiting and trying to entertain kids. If I could get 10-12hrs of drive time at 80-90mph, I wouldn't hesitate. Or if I lived in or just bought a commuter to Charlotte, I'd probably be a lot more inclined. At this stage in life, it just doesn't seem to fit my driving style/environment.
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I agree that right now long trips are not the forte of EVs. I think commuting and shorter trips are their niche.

As for a fun car, 1000 hp and AWD certainly qualifies in my world and under 200 mile romps would be ok with me.
 
RatLabGuy said:
And just think, 80 years ago people said the exact same thing about gas stations.
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:gtfo:in 1941 gas stations were abundant across the US

If you'd have said 100 yrs...maybe but this was 1941

shell-gas-station-1941-california-views-mr-pat-hathaway-archives.jpg
 
CasterTroy said:
:gtfo:in 1941 gas stations were abundant across the US

If you'd have said 100 yrs...maybe but this was 1941

shell-gas-station-1941-california-views-mr-pat-hathaway-archives.jpg
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whatever asshole.

You know I'm not good with teh maths.
 
RatLabGuy said:
And just think, 80 years ago people said the exact same thing about gas stations.

Give it time, the infrastructure will happen.
And a major advantage is that the "infrastructure" to make a charging station is way easier than for gasoline. All you need is an electrical line.

re: charging time - that is rapidly decreasing with better battery and heat management tech.
Click to expand...

Right...I don't disagree...but I'd bet that's at least a decade or two away. And also worth noting, with infrastructure comes additional expense...you think the business is just going to absorb 'infrastructure' expense out of the kindness of their hearts...nah. And that will ultimately make cost analyses even more relevant to the discussion. $70k+ car, probably too expensive to maintain beyond the warranty, plus what I assume will become monetization/capitalistic endeavors for these charging stations. Everyone will adapt, but with a perfectly good alternative available, I'm not sure EV's will ever be more than a status symbol for hippies and the affluent. That's why I'm so curious about the Ford 'Lightning', how's it going to perform as the 'working mans truck'...but time will tell. I certainly think it's awesome technology, just needs time.
 
UTfball68 said:
but with a perfectly good alternative available, I'm not sure EV's will ever be more than a status symbol for hippies and the affluent.
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There's plenty of forces at work suggesting this isn't always going to be the case.

I don't think petrol engines are infrastructure are going away any time soon, but are slowly (or even not so slowly) getting relegated to hobbyist, historical and niche applications.
 
UTfball68 said:
Right...I don't disagree...but I'd bet that's at least a decade or two away. And also worth noting, with infrastructure comes additional expense...you think the business is just going to absorb 'infrastructure' expense out of the kindness of their hearts...nah. And that will ultimately make cost analyses even more relevant to the discussion. $70k+ car, probably too expensive to maintain beyond the warranty, plus what I assume will become monetization/capitalistic endeavors for these charging stations. Everyone will adapt, but with a perfectly good alternative available, I'm not sure EV's will ever be more than a status symbol for hippies and the affluent. That's why I'm so curious about the Ford 'Lightning', how's it going to perform as the 'working mans truck'...but time will tell. I certainly think it's awesome technology, just needs time.
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Both sides of this seem pretty valid. One thing to note is that EVs are coming down in cost to the $50K range for a decent vehicle.

On the infrastructure topic, I read an article on companies using charging stations much like truck stops and rest areas did earlier. They incentivize people to stop and spend 40 minutes of time (and money) by offering them free quick charging.

The plan goes like this (and I am butchering teh maths) the restaurant spends $10-15k on a quick charge station. They get a family to pull over and spend $50+ on a meal while they charge their car. They get 5 families per day on average, that's $250/day times 360. That's $90k.

The other issue with infrastructure is right now, EVs are freeloading. Most of the infrastructure for road transport is paid for by gas tax (about 60 cents on every gallon). So, if EVs take over the roads, expect some kind of tax to make up for lost fuel revenue.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
On the infrastructure topic, I read an article on companies using charging stations much like truck stops and rest areas did earlier. They incentivize people to stop and spend 40 minutes of time (and money) by offering them free quick charging.

The plan goes like this (and I am butchering teh maths) the restaurant spends $10-15k on a quick charge station. They get a family to pull over and spend $50+ on a meal while they charge their car. They get 5 families per day on average, that's $250/day times 360. That's $90k.
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Im sure there’s validity there to some extent…and I’m completely ignorant beyond my hunch on this topic, I’m just a firm believer in there’s no such thing as ‘free’, especially when it comes to business. I’d be willing to bet that ‘free electricity’ and ‘free charging station’, is embedded somewhere within the business model…probably fractions of a penny per customer…but ‘free charging’, sounds more like a marketing gimmick to me.
 
UTfball68 said:
Im sure there’s validity there to some extent…and I’m completely ignorant beyond my hunch on this topic, I’m just a firm believer in there’s no such thing as ‘free’, especially when it comes to business. I’d be willing to bet that ‘free electricity’ and ‘free charging station’, is embedded somewhere within the business model…probably fractions of a penny per customer…but ‘free charging’, sounds more like a marketing gimmick to me.
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100% agree. Much like coupons or grand opening offers, as soon as the "free charging" no longer offers a marketing advantage, they will find a way to offset the cost.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
Both sides of this seem pretty valid. One thing to note is that EVs are coming down in cost to the $50K range for a decent vehicle.

On the infrastructure topic, I read an article on companies using charging stations much like truck stops and rest areas did earlier. They incentivize people to stop and spend 40 minutes of time (and money) by offering them free quick charging.

The plan goes like this (and I am butchering teh maths) the restaurant spends $10-15k on a quick charge station. They get a family to pull over and spend $50+ on a meal while they charge their car. They get 5 families per day on average, that's $250/day times 360. That's $90k.

The other issue with infrastructure is right now, EVs are freeloading. Most of the infrastructure for road transport is paid for by gas tax (about 60 cents on every gallon). So, if EVs take over the roads, expect some kind of tax to make up for lost fuel revenue.
Click to expand...
The model of charge while you have a reason to stop" is what will win out IMO.
Maybe its a problem for the guy that wants to drive 450 mile w/o a stop, but thats not most trips in teh consumer market. the vast majority of the time you're going somplace, and that someplace could (thereotically) charge you bc most of the time that place has electricity.

The freeloading thing is kinda sorta being addressed now, in MD for instance if you are an EV owner you are supposed to file a road use tax based on your mileage. At least that used to be a thing, haven't looked in awhile. They at least know you're an EV owner bc of the reogstration. Of course that dosn't catch any conversions or hybrids... and since there is no annual inspection and no emmisions requirement for a pure EV, the amount is purely an honor system...
 
An article I was just reading (that was notably pro-EV) pointed out something I had not considered, but is a potential factor as well.
We are at the beginning of a tidal wave of EV options, with increasingly more coming out as time passes. While it may seem niche faddish now, in the not too distant future it will be a lot more normal and a sizeable market share.
That means anyone buying a brand new gas car today could potentially see a more rapidly declining resale value in, say, 6 years, when gas is less en vogue and there is increasing popularity to switch.

Now I don't necessarily buy that logic, but it's an interesting point.
For one, demand may be decreasing but if supply decreases at the same rate, nothing changes.
Also, the biggest hurdle EVs face is proving vaibility to replace the "cheap car" segment. I don't mean low purchase price, I mean the fact that there are a significant % of people that buy cars that are $5k or less.
Old stuff, bc thats all they can afford.
Is there an EV equivolent to the 15 year old Civic that gets you through college? I suspicion is that, aside from the due-hards like alot on ths board, thats what will keep gas cars around the longest - the vast infrastructure to keep old cars cheap.
 
orange150 said:
I still think alternative fuels will pick up.
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Coal?

benXJ said:
As soon as the electric F150 hits the market and it doesn't completely suck.... people are going to be demanding charging stations, and Ford will oblige, just as Tesla did, to help sell more. It's here.
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Where are they going to get the electricity?

They've been telling people in CA and the south for the last week not to charge their cars because of brown outs.
 
shawn said:
Where are they going to get the electricity?

They've been telling people in CA and the south for the last week not to charge their cars because of brown outs.
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Hell…you don’t even have to use ‘big bad incompetent’ California as an example. When I was at Nucor in Coefield, NC…during summer months, depending on grid usage, we’d have to pay a premium for power used or shut down a billion dollar steel plant, even then we’d have to shut down some departments most days. Very rarely could we melt and roll at the same time during the summer. Now, surrounding areas were BFE…but I’d imagine there would be some difficulties for the average Joe if you introduce a few thousand EV’s to the mix, where it’s a 45minute drive to anywhere.
 
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