Let's talk axles

karatejosh

karatejosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Location
raleigh
So I have a toyota buggy 22r 37 inch reds toyota minitruck axles with og longs spartan lockers front and back I broke the cross pins in my rear locker and I think I have a front shaft going out I really want to be able to beat on the buggy harder and think I need bigger axles I want opinion on wich way to go do I switch to fj80 axles that would allow me to keep my very expensive wheeles or do I go to narrowed 60's or do I just keep rocking the yota axles
 
My vote is for ford 9" front and rear.

The housings can be gotten for cheap (<$100) out of Charlotte. Check out some race car auctions. Most of the spindles will be machined offset.

So cut off spindles, then weld on full float spindles for the rear. This lets you set you WMS whatever you like and truss the axle as necessary. Still a lot lighter than a 60 or 14B.

For the front use same housing, but use either Dana 50/60 knuckles and either unit bearing or convention spindle and hub. Truss as needed.

Not sure what it would take for shafts for both.

Then you could still keep a spare third around for both axles and Still weighs less than one tons.

Or get some full case lockers for your thirds, and some spare front shafts & birfs and wheel on.
 
Watch out on running race car take out housing. Alot have built in angles and the housing are thin....
 
Look at it this way...you're going to be moving the weak point around in the buggy. Bottom line, its Toyota running gear. There is going to be a weak link somewhere. You do have the advantage of being lighter weight which helps parts live longer when paired with sticky tires. Bigger axles and stronger diffs will make your tcase the weak link. That flat out blows to change on the trail or at camp and even the RCV outputs can be broken or it will just trash a set of gears or an input.

IMHO, make the weak point something easy to fix. (I am going through this same debate as to where to go with my 4Runner now that its getting stickies)

KISS Method:
(1)Get rid of that locker in the back and run a spooled V6 diff and have the gears set up by someone that knows what we do (@Jody Treadway or ECGS which I know is just closer to you). You have full hydro, so run the same diff up front and carry a spare welded 4cyl 3rd back in the tow rig. Yeah it will affect the way it turns, but that's the tradeoff. I have seen fewer broken RCV/Dirty30/Longfield shafts with a welded or spooled diff which I attribute to the shaft not getting shockloaded the same way that it does when a locker does its thing.
(2)Throw an RCV output in your case if you don't have one yet.
(3)Buy a spare set of RCV's or Dirty30/Longs to keep in the truck. Black Friday is coming up and someone will have them on sale.

$ Method:
FJ80 Front with the full 30 Spline RCV's, drill the drive flanges and hubs out out for bigger hardware.
FJ80 Full Float Rear, drill the flanges out for bigger hardware
Spools front and rear or weld them
You'll either have to buy Hellfire Fab knuckles or deal with the tie rod being a little lower. You'll probably want a different ram than you have now as well. But you get to keep your wheel/tire combo, stay relatively lightweight and stronger. Not really sure the offset rear diff is an issue since you're not racing. A well built driveshaft will take it. RCV Shaft in the case and roll out. You'll probably be ok for 90% of the beatdowns that buggy will ever see and you can more than likely drive it like a full on ratard. The rest will kersplode a tcase gear or input shaft.

$$$$ Method:
Fabbed housings, 9" stuff blah blah blah. Cases will be the weak link for sure, shit tons of money and you'll end up not being much lighter than just throwing a set of tons under it for way cheaper. At this point just sell your shit and buy a buggy built with this stuff. You'll come out way ahead.
 
Are you planning to keep 37's or go bigger?

I completely agree with stretch.

Probably go to 4.88's.

Spool the rear so you can abuse it on ledges ad step ups.

A good full case locker or spool in the front.

Good shafts and birfs and the rcv output and beat on it with the 37's.

I feel like going to 39's and bigger axles will kill the lightweight advantage of the buggy, then it will be more spent on cases, then more motor etc.
 
StretchASU pretty much covered it so nothing useful to add here. My choice would be a 9.5 elocker front with FJ80 outers, hellfires and rcv's. Then a FZJ80 elocker rear.
 
Stretch nailed it.

I'll say this. Old buggy ran twin v6 toy axles. Welded front and rear. OG longs everywhere (short,long,birf)
37 sticky treps and a healthy enough 4.3.

I managed to shear ring gear teeth off the front being stupid, intentionally, goofing off. Never broke a shaft or a birf.
 
To build proper 9's you will spend way more than doing a 14 bolt, D60 or FJ housings. If you use sheet metal 9 inch housings and antique 9 inch 3rds they will break and you will be worse off then you are now. Most recent failure was a spartan locker its the cheapest locker you can buy and puts all the stress on the pin and case which incidentally failed. Put a $100 spool in it problem solved. Buy another set of 30 spline axles for the front, how old are the ones in it and what kind of maintenance have they seen.
Rear T100/8.4 diff with an ARB is strong. As is the TLC 9.5 both decent options light weight and affordable.

If considering doing a unit bearing set up on a 9 or 60 b/c the Balljoint C's and knuckles are obtainable and affordable leaves you with the need for unit bearings. A quality unit bearing 5,6, or 8 lug is minimum $375 per corner. Purchasing Chinese unit brgs leaves you with a $200 dollar paper weight after a few rides.

Other thing to consider is ground clearance w/ 37's you need a small package or it will be counter productive. Strength of the buggy is light and low I would try to stick with that.

# 1 Drop a high pinion 8 inch in the front and a new set of 30 spline axles. Spool, ARB, Detroit, Grizzly locker
Swap T100/8.4 in Rear or a TLC 9.5. No spools available for these, So detroit or ARB
Strong, Cheap, light weight, keep wheels.

#2 D60's front and rear or 60/14 bolt. Heavy, swap wheels to 8x6.5.

#3 Fab 9" housings, Nodular 3rds, king pin parts. Can buy true spindle style 6 lug hubs to keep wheels. Mid weight most expensive
 
Elockers are cool, but I would not use it for a trail rig. It's just another weak link.

If you change axles, get a FJ60 front and run FZJ80 FF rear. Only issue is width difference of 5". You can retain your aftermarket front shafts less the short side inner. You can take all of the upgraded steering knuckles and hubs and reuse.
 
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This was exactly what I need thanks guys for your knowledge my gut says just put all new stuff in my axles and run spools I have a new rcv output in the tcase and who knows how old my longs are I just didn't want to throw money into something just to move up to a fj stuff or 60's thanks again for all the advice
 
If it were me and I was sticking with 37's and that engine I'd just put a spool in the back and a better locker in the front. Those axles can handle what that engine puts out to that setup. As cheap as extra front shafts can be had for yotas I think people are crazy for not keeping an extra set on hand.
 
GONOVRIT said:
As cheap as extra front shafts can be had for yotas I think people are crazy for not keeping an extra set on hand.
Click to expand...

By "extra set", you mean the ones that are on the rig, the backup set on the trailer, and an extra set "in case the weekend goes sideways"?

Just looking for clarification here. I've seen how you drive.


:flipoff2:
 
What Chase said, spools(or ARB/Detroit in front), HP front and 30 splines.

I've contemplated this sooo many times, 9's are expensive(you got that judo-chop coin though), tons are heavy and kill clearance, which then snowballs into more tire, then more HP. Once there, you've completely ruined the aspect of having a small, lightweight, reliable toy. And FJ axles really aren't the answer either, they bring a host of issues in themselves. Sure the birfs are larger but the stub is the same, so the stub breaks off the bell, so then you'll need a set of shafts in it as well. And the steering issue, either a bunch of machining for high steer or some Hellfire knuckles(sexy, but $1,000).

As Stretch said, all you're really doing by upping axles is moving the weak link.
 
Take this from a guy with almost the same setup as you and who has done the actual swap your contemplating.
1. Stay with what you have but with the best parts you can buy, don't get longs because they aren't really longs anymore and the warranty is iffy, the only toy axles to buy right now are the rcv stuff.
2. Do like me and go to dana 60 front and rear. I feel my weak link now is a driveshaft since I'm running toy joints and flanges and a driveshaft is alot easier to swap out than an axle shaft. I haven't noticed any ground clearance issues going from toys to tons and the stock width of the tons hasn't hurt me anywhere.

Stay away from what I call the middle of the road axles (9", dana 44, fj stuff) they aren't as strong as they should be for the money and they aren't cheap enough and in some cases not any cheaper at all than full on ton stuff.

Do only one of those 2 options and if you swap to tons make the front a 4 link and ditch the 3 link setup like I did for more peace of mind. It cost some money to swap tons under the samurai but so far with the way it performs and the durability it gives me I consider it money very well spent.

Just my .02
 
Stuntman Autoworks said:
Take this from a guy with almost the same setup as you and who has done the actual swap your contemplating.
1. Stay with what you have but with the best parts you can buy, don't get longs because they aren't really longs anymore and the warranty is iffy, the only toy axles to buy right now are the rcv stuff.
2. Do like me and go to dana 60 front and rear. I feel my weak link now is a driveshaft since I'm running toy joints and flanges and a driveshaft is alot easier to swap out than an axle shaft. I haven't noticed any ground clearance issues going from toys to tons and the stock width of the tons hasn't hurt me anywhere.

Stay away from what I call the middle of the road axles (9", dana 44, fj stuff) they aren't as strong as they should be for the money and they aren't cheap enough and in some cases not any cheaper at all than full on ton stuff.

Do only one of those 2 options and if you swap to tons make the front a 4 link and ditch the 3 link setup like I did for more peace of mind. It cost some money to swap tons under the samurai but so far with the way it performs and the durability it gives me I consider it money very well spent.

Just my .02
Click to expand...
You are also running taller tires and a good bit more motor than he.
 
Cperry said:
Rear T100/8.4 diff with an ARB is strong.
Click to expand...

Isn't the Tacoma non-Elocker rear diff an 8.4 too? The T100 version is significantly wider that mini-truck stuff isn't it? I know the Tacoma rear is wider than the IFS rear too.
 
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