Looking for a diesel and need some help.

Deplorable

Deplorable

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Location
Asheville
Hindsight being 20/20, I wish we still had our 2005 6.0 Excursion we sold last year. Never thought we'd need another diesel. Oh well!

Looking for a moderately priced tow rig. Had my mind made up for a 2003-2007 Dodge 5.9 liter. But goodness! They fetch quite a pretty penny. So...

What's a best option? Keep looking for the 5.9 at the right price or expand it to a newer 6.7 that's a tad less? Consider another 6.0 or Duramax?

Thnaks
 
What's your price range? And how afraid of miles are you?

It sounds like you were in the same quandary I was in a month ago. I wanted an 10+ Ram Crewcab Cummins 4x4, but wanted to keep it under $25k, and wanted leather and ventilated seats. Not happenin'! People were askin basically $30k for ones with 250k miles. F that. Duramaxes were almost as high. But 11+ Fords with under 200k could be found in my price range.

Ragged out 6.0's could be found for $10-15k, but nice ones were $15-20k.
Anything that said Duramax or Cummins was $20k regardless of miles, and $30k if it had less than 300k miles.
6.4 Fords could be found as cheap as 6.0's. The only reason I didn't go with another one of those was the terrible fuel mileage.
6.7 Fords were in the $20-25k range with under 250k miles, and $25-30k with under 200k miles. I ended up finding a '11 Lariat with 160k miles listed for $25k, ten minutes from my house. Ended up getting it for $22,500. There are decent deals to be had if you are patient (not my strong suit) and act quickly (my truck listed at 1pm and the deal was agreed upon at 2:45pm the same day).
 
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Does it HAVE to be a diesel?

Those gas V10's in the superduty are pretty stout, plus you avoid the flatbiller tax And a 6.0 chevy gasser is plenty to tow with. Jason and Josh had no trouble getting to Moab in their gas tow rigs!

Assuming 4x4?

Ford Diesel: I wouldn't shy away from a 6.0 just know that if you're intending to USE it and tow the mountains, you'll likely need to factor head gasket and ARP studs into the purchase.
I WOULD shy away from a 6.4 though, because head gaskets are one thing, $10,000 replacement motors are another. I've seen more than a dozen 6.4's that didn't make it past 120k before grenading...and it's not just a upper rebuild, it's a whole crate motor. YMMV and Matt has had luck out of HIS, but I know 3 mechanics personally that LOVE seeing 6.4 customers because they know by 130k they'll have themselves a new long block replacement.
If you FIND a 7.3 apparently they are to Ford what the 12v is to cummins. Good luck finding one without a 1/2 million miles or paying 3 times what you would for a one year later 6.0

Chevy Diesel: Don't really know anything about them, just know if you buy one, you have to put a trash can exhaust, and rubber band tires on 22's and ONLY a front lift on one

Cummins: best friend is lead day mechanic at Cummins atlantic in GSO. He swears by the 12 valve like it's God's gift to the industrial revolution. hates the new stuff. Though the fanboys lay claim to perfection they have their issues too. But the biggest turnoff is the fanboys themselves have shot themselves in the foot by all the loyalty and bruised knees, as they've driven the price thru the roof. You've got goobers paying over $20k for 15+ yr old trucks with 200k + miles on them :D

Kernersville dodge has one of the largest used truck inventories in the southeast. And great prices (they brag they have the best prices in 500 miles)
 
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From what I saw a while back, V10s cost more than 6.0L diesels, and there were a whole lot of them with <150k and major motor repairs.
 
I wouldn't hesitate on another 6.0 Ford, I am just over 265k on mine and it is still doing fine (all the normal stuff has been fixed). I did buy a schoolbus with a DT360 (5.9 that's better than a Cummins) that I hope to use as a donor motor if and when the 6.0 does finally go.
 
Deplorable said:
Thanks Troy. Really prefer a diesel, since I want to do a slide-in and Jeep on a gooseneck. @jeepinmatt, you're right. That's what I'm finding. Crazy prices for lotsa miles.
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Coming from an 08 to an 11 F250, stock for stock there is no comparison. The 6 speed auto is geared perfectly and locks up and holds a gear much better than the 5 speed ever did. Overall the truck just feels better built. A lot of other stuff is the same, but Ford did a lot of things right to begin with. I was averaging 12.7mpg in my 08, and now I'm at about 16mpg after 3 tanks. My biggest complaint is the headlight switch: the previous generation was push the lever forward for high beams, and then pull it back for low beams. Works great because you can tell if they are on by the lever position without having to look at the cluster. The 11+ trucks have went back to the 80's/90's style of pull the lever for high beams and then pull again for low beams. Definitely a step back for no reason in my opinion.
 
I'll chime in with what I know about Duramax trucks, which is mostly limited to the 01-07.5 classic.

None of them have a factory lift pump. The CP3 pulls the fuel from the tank. They also all had a transfer case pump rub issue that could/would wear a hole through the back half of the transfer case. Easy fixes though.

01-04 is the LB7. Good trucks as far as I'm concerned. They had injector issues and that was more or less GM's fault. Bosch called for 4 micron filtration and the GM filters were good to 7 microns. They upped the warranty to 200k miles because of that and came out with a new fuel filter. You could get the 5 speed Allison auto or a ZF6 6 speed manual. They used a dual mass flywheel IIRC and they had some issues. LB7s are also the only Duramax generation to use a fixed vane turbo. All the rest are VGT. Most sale ads for an LB7 will mention the last time the injectors were changed. With a lift pump's extra filtration I wouldn't worry too much about them. I think 2003 brought about some extra interior features like dual climate control and stuff like that. Only the California emissions LB7 had an EGR system, standard Federal emissions trucks didn't.

04.5-05 was the LLY. Changed injector design, VGT turbo, and this generation seemed to have head gasket issues more often than not. Usually they've been replaced by now, so somebody else has eaten that cost. 5 speed auto or 6 speed manual. These had EGR systems and a catalytic converter.

06-07.5 was the LBZ. Last trucks before emissions stuff started to hit heavy. Very similar to the LLY, just with different tuning from the factory. First year of the 6 speed Allison auto. Better electronic controls allowed the use of a second overdrive. These are the trucks you see still going for 25-30k.

07.5-10 was the LMM. Big changes. Different body style. These trucks had DEF. From what I've read the LMM is very similar to the LBZ. Still used the 6 speed auto. I'm not very familiar with these, but I do know these trucks are heavier than previous versions.

The 01-10 trucks use the same suspension and basically all of it is interchangeable. Front IFS with a 9.25" diff, AAM 11.5 rear axle, and NV261XHD (manual shift) or NV263XHD (push button) transfer cases. The standard axle gearing was 3.73 and most had the G80 rear which held up decent in the big ol 11.5 axles.


With all that said, I have an 02 LB7 crew cab short bed 4x4. I love the truck, but I hate IFS and with it just about to roll 250k miles, it's getting a solid axle.

You can usually find an LB7 or LLY crew cab 4x4 for 10-15k. I've even seen some reasonably priced LBZs for less than 20k. I always look for something as stock as possible with the plan to modify as I see fit and not to buy something that I know someone prior to me has ragged out.
 
jeepinmatt said:
My biggest complaint is the headlight switch: the previous generation was push the lever forward for high beams, and then pull it back for low beams. Works great because you can tell if they are on by the lever position without having to look at the cluster. The 11+ trucks have went back to the 80's/90's style of pull the lever for high beams and then pull again for low beams. Definitely a step back for no reason in my opinion.
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That sounds really rough. How can you survive with such an inadequate headlight switch :D burn the truck down, it is worthless :poop:
 
jeepinmatt said:
Coming from an 08 to an 11 F250, stock for stock there is no comparison. The 6 speed auto is geared perfectly and locks up and holds a gear much better than the 5 speed ever did. Overall the truck just feels better built. A lot of other stuff is the same, but Ford did a lot of things right to begin with. I was averaging 12.7mpg in my 08, and now I'm at about 16mpg after 3 tanks. My biggest complaint is the headlight switch: the previous generation was push the lever forward for high beams, and then pull it back for low beams. Works great because you can tell if they are on by the lever position without having to look at the cluster. The 11+ trucks have went back to the 80's/90's style of pull the lever for high beams and then pull again for low beams. Definitely a step back for no reason in my opinion.
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man my 08 is averaging 18 on sunday to Winston Salem and back running 80 most of the way. i guess the "fuel saver" cam that my buddy put in the truck when he rebuilt the motor was worth the money
 
Buy what you want; Ford, Chevy, Dodge, doesn't matter. They all will have their issues and they all have they're strengths. Good deals on truck are out there you just have to look and be patient, but they usually move check so you'll need to jump on one fairly quick when you find it.
 
Nothing really to add other than purchases over the last few years for the landscape business, all 05-08 Fords. Had a couple 6.0's, sub-200k crew cab 4x4's...all of them in the 16-18k range. Bullet proofed rigs were just fine, the ones that weren't, all but one ended up blowing white smoke. Switched to crew cab 4x4 5.4 trucks for the last couple years, did everything the 6.0's did (towing tractors and 10,000lb trailers)...just with worse gas mileage. These were sub-150k trucks, in the 14k range. I'd give the nod to the 6.0 for engine longevity, but the rest of the truck on all of them were all pretty much dead around 250-300k. Decided I wanted to get something newer 5-6 months ago, realized pretty much anything made since 2010 had 200k+ on it and was in the $25-30k range...so I decided it was well worth just spending $38k and went with a new 2017 diesel Dodge dually crew 4x4 with 7 miles on it. All that said, if you're being cost conscious, a 10 year old ford diesel would be cheapest, otherwise, I'd just as soon buy a new one.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
06-07.5 was the LBZ. Last trucks before emissions stuff started to hit heavy. Very similar to the LLY, just with different tuning from the factory. First year of the 6 speed Allison auto. Better electronic controls allowed the use of a second overdrive. These are the trucks you see still going for 25-30k.
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The older ones can be converted to 6 speed with a valve body/TCU swap from Suncoast (ALLISON 01-03 LB7 5-6 SPEED). Not cheap, I think the kit is around $2000 if you shop around, but probably cheaper than the delta between an LB7/LLY vs an LBZ. My 03 LB7 was a great truck. The trans and engine on that truck worked perfectly together. If the LBZ crewcabs were bigger, that's what I'd be driving right now.

Loganwayne said:
man my 08 is averaging 18 on sunday to Winston Salem and back running 80 most of the way. i guess the "fuel saver" cam that my buddy put in the truck when he rebuilt the motor was worth the money
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Hand calc'd or going by the computer? My computer was very optimistic on the highway. I hand calc'd every tank for the 2+ years I owned the truck, and the best it ever got was 16.4mpg on an all highway trip with moving traffic averaging 65mph.
 
jeepinmatt said:
The older ones can be converted to 6 speed with a valve body/TCU swap from Suncoast (ALLISON 01-03 LB7 5-6 SPEED). Not cheap, but probably cheaper than the delta between an LB7/LLY vs an LBZ.


Hand calc'd or going by the computer? My computer was very optimistic on the highway. I hand calc'd every tank for the 2+ years I owned the truck, and the best it ever got was 16.4mpg on an all highway trip with moving traffic averaging 65mph.
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Hand calc. Computer said 22mpg hand calc I get 16.5 - 17.25 mpg
Cam he installed had clams of 3-6 mpg pick up with it



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Loganwayne said:
Hand calc. Computer said 22mpg hand calc I get 16.5 - 17.25 mpg
Cam he installed had clams of 3-6 mpg pick up with it



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That awesome. Bound to pay for itself quickly. Tune, DPF delete?
 
jeepinmatt said:
The 11+ trucks have went back to the 80's/90's style of pull the lever for high beams and then pull again for low beams.
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So, same as your wife's BMW?
The '14-up BMW turn signal/high beam level went full retard! I thought my wife's '11 was bad
 
CasterTroy said:
So, same as your wife's BMW?
The '14-up BMW turn signal/high beam level went full retard! I thought my wife's '11 was bad
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No, the BMW is still the right way, push for high, return to center for low. Same as the 2000 Wrangler, 2008 F250, 2008 4Runner, 2004 Passat, and most every other vehicle I have driven this century.
 
UTfball68 said:
Nothing really to add other than purchases over the last few years for the landscape business, all 05-08 Fords. Had a couple 6.0's, sub-200k crew cab 4x4's...all of them in the 16-18k range. Bullet proofed rigs were just fine, the ones that weren't, all but one ended up blowing white smoke. Switched to crew cab 4x4 5.4 trucks for the last couple years, did everything the 6.0's did (towing tractors and 10,000lb trailers)...just with worse gas mileage. These were sub-150k trucks, in the 14k range. I'd give the nod to the 6.0 for engine longevity, but the rest of the truck on all of them were all pretty much dead around 250-300k. Decided I wanted to get something newer 5-6 months ago, realized pretty much anything made since 2010 had 200k+ on it and was in the $25-30k range...so I decided it was well worth just spending $38k and went with a new 2017 diesel Dodge dually crew 4x4 with 7 miles on it. All that said, if you're being cost conscious, a 10 year old ford diesel would be cheapest, otherwise, I'd just as soon buy a new one.
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$38k for a new crew cab dually? That's waaaay below MSRP! I did a build and price online quote a couple months ago - every a bare bones regular cab 4x4 Dodge diesel was around $45k!

OP, I see '99 - '03 Fords with the 7.3 go for fairly reasonable prices. That being said, I'm another advocate of a getting a gasser - I have been driving an '00 ram 2500 v8 for over 6 years and have had basically no problems with it. It's slow and drinks a lot of gas, but as long as I don't need to tow over 8-9k it gets the job done, and I only paid $3500 for it.
 
maddog411 said:
$38k for a new crew cab dually? That's waaaay below MSRP! I did a build and price online quote a couple months ago - every a bare bones regular cab 4x4 Dodge diesel was around $45k!
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MSRP on dem Ram's is usually about 20% higher than market value for new. I slippery sloped up to a new truck many times in my head for this reason. If you do a build and price, then find similar, then go to the actual dealer sites, they will have much lower prices. I saw many $65,000 MSRP trucks in the low $50k's, brand new on the dealer lots. And a used one with 50-100k miles is $45k, so a new one doesn't look so bad suddenly.
 
maddog411 said:
$38k for a new crew cab dually? That's waaaay below MSRP! I did a build and price online quote a couple months ago - every a bare bones regular cab 4x4 Dodge diesel was around $45k!
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It's far from a top tier truck, but there were about $15k in rebates, plus being a 17 as they were making room for 18's...Keffer Dodge made a helluva deal. Other trucks with similar set ups at other dealers were $4-5k higher.
 
jeepinmatt said:
The 11+ trucks have went back to the 80's/90's style of pull the lever for high beams and then pull again for low beams.
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It was a button on the floor until 92, then it was away=high, close=low, pull back for both.

:flipoff2:

jeepinmatt said:
MSRP on new vehicles is usually about 20% higher than market value for new.
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FIFY.... if you can't get close to 20% off MSRP, you're not getting a good deal.
 
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