LS swap in a 2011 JK

catfishblues

catfishblues

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Location
Pfafftown, NC
Has anybody here figured out a good way to get the systems to play nice together? Got a buddy in Colorado contemplating this swap and looking for someone to wire it.
 
I don't, but have heard that the CAN-bus system on those JKs can be a real pain. He should drive it up to AEV and have a nice HEMI put in it instead. They have all the bugs worked out already!
 
Motech in Las Vegas does most of the LS swaps in JKs. They aren't cheap, I've met a few fellas with them when I was on the west coast. They are badass
 
How will they get it to pass NC OBD II Sniffer test?
 
I was reading in the thread where the guy put the 4.8 in the XJ he was saying as long as the OBDII had communication and no codes it would pass. My only concern with this is the VIN mismatch through DMV, this would definitely throw a red flag. That is what is known as a clean scan when the VIN put into the computer doesn't match the vin in the PCM. I don't know enough about to know if you can put a Jeep VIN in a Chevrolet PCM or not. Otherwise as long as the vehicle had everything listed in the Cascade manual or under hood decal that it was supposed to I think it should pass. JMHO though.
 
Down East Off Road in Wilson has done at least a couple of these that I know of. They should have some insight.
 
Ron said:
How will they get it to pass NC OBD II Sniffer test?
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Some actually go through and use various emission parts from the LS and the JK they need to make it compliant.
 
Infamous1 said:
I was reading in the thread where the guy put the 4.8 in the XJ he was saying as long as the OBDII had communication and no codes it would pass. My only concern with this is the VIN mismatch through DMV, this would definitely throw a red flag. That is what is known as a clean scan when the VIN put into the computer doesn't match the vin in the PCM. I don't know enough about to know if you can put a Jeep VIN in a Chevrolet PCM or not. Otherwise as long as the vehicle had everything listed in the Cascade manual or under hood decal that it was supposed to I think it should pass. JMHO though.
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These guys are doing 50 state or 48 state legal conversions. They took all that and made it a turn key package. It ain't cheap at around $8k just for them to handle the electrical side and you weld in the motor mounts.

You can drop it off and they will throw in a new engine and charge you $20k lol

Edit... $5k for 07-09 JK where you do the work yourself they handle the electronics.

Basic Kit
 
The LS3 E-Rod crate kits are 50 state compliant, and include headers and cats and everything. That doesn't solve the JK wiring integration and mounts, etc., but it's a big head start if the emissions is the hurdle.

Things like gauge clusters are the ones I would worry about in a vehicle that new, a lot of the info often comes over CAN from the ECM to supply the gauges, etc. Sometimes aftermarket gauges the are the solution, if you don't lose a lot of important functions from the OEM cluster.
 
The motor can be 50 state compliant, however the Vehicle is not without Prototype testing with the EPA.

I know what they are claiming and few inspectors nationally are sharp enough to catch what they are doing. I would wager that the NC DMV doesnt agree with the statement that motor is legal in a JK.
 
Ron said:
The motor can be 50 state compliant, however the Vehicle is not without Prototype testing with the EPA.

I know what they are claiming and few inspectors nationally are sharp enough to catch what they are doing. I would wager that the NC DMV doesnt agree with the statement that motor is legal in a JK.
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Ok let me ask you to see what you say about this. Using stock components that have be verified by the EPA (fuel system components for an example) say the evaporate canister from the GM stuff fuel lines from a TJ and etc. all these components were certified at one point in time by the EPA so how can they deny it when the parts have just been configured differently to complete the same task without being modified?

Using a factory fuel tank as long as it has provisions to just plug up to. The fuel tank is certified through the EPA, the evaporate canister is certified along with everything else in the fuel system if plumed with OEM lines ( 05/06 LJ/TJ fuel lines actually fit JK tank and the fuel pumps are exactly the same besides the 05/06 TJ/LJ ones are longer to reach deeper in the tank). It's how I did my TJ tank swap without setting a check engine light and have no problems passing inspection.

I know a lot look at these through the whole VIN doesn't match the ECM stuff. In a JK you still have your factory PCM to retain gauges and OBD-2 port with its functions. In a way the LS engine is a piggy back system, and to the best of my knowledge it will read trouble codes and everything through the factory OBD-2 port. They link the wires you need to run the LS engine and LS ECM because the operating systems are so different.

Not saying this is the law of the land, but there are some grey areas there that you are able to get through.
 
Im not saying it is "not as good" or not as clean emissions wise or anything else.

I am saying that there is not a legal, economically feasible way to swap a motor from one manufacturer into a chassis of another manufacturer and remain legal according to the EPA and the NC DMV, UNLESS the vehicle is pre emission.

Lots of things affect the emission performance of an engine. Including exhaust pipe and routing, including temperature operating conditions (which will vary based on radiator size, grill surface area, and heat dissipation area.

The EPA wants to test all of this. A round of Prototype testing costs around $25,000 with the EPA and by definition DESTROYS the subject engine.

No one is selling a tested solution in the market.

Again I am not saying it wont work. I am not saying you cant get away with it. I am saying IF you get caught it isnt legal and it will hurt and likely bankrupt (LITERALLY) you and your family. Be aware of that possibility and proceed as you desire.
 
And some people think you go to hell for not recalibration your speedo on a newer computer control vehicle. To each there own you can argue both points till you're blue in the face. I'm not a license inspector but NC law is the same year or newer with vehicle specific emissions requirement or is it engine specific?
 
Well then why does GM sell a 50 state legal 5.3, that comes in a box? They are saying it is emission compliant regardless of grill size, exhaust size, etc, as long as all sensors are hooked up properly. The engine, as long as it passes sniffer tests, obd2 tests, and visual tests (cat, o2 sensors, etc) then you are good to go. The ECU monitors temp and hundreds of other parameters to control fueling to control emissions regardless of the vehicle it is installed in.
 
What's really unfortunate is that we have to argue about this because a Fedgov regulatory agency is affecting things for all of us at a state or local level, and there really is no democratic or exception process.
 
benXJ said:
Well then why does GM sell a 50 state legal 5.3, that comes in a box? They are saying it is emission compliant regardless of grill size, exhaust size, etc, as long as all sensors are hooked up properly. The engine, as long as it passes sniffer tests, obd2 tests, and visual tests (cat, o2 sensors, etc) then you are good to go. The ECU monitors temp and hundreds of other parameters to control fueling to control emissions regardless of the vehicle it is installed in.
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Again that engine is 50 state legal to install in a pre emission vehicle. I.E. it is CARB certified. In some states it is illegal to install an LSx into a 55 Chevy, for example. This engine is legal for that usage.
Doesn't NC also stipulate same manufacturer along with same year or newer?

Your point about the ECU is valid, but the point I was making is a different length/design of pipe between the exhaust port on the head and the cat will change the exhaust gas temperature.
 
jeepinmatt said:
What's really unfortunate is that we have to argue about this because a Fedgov regulatory agency is affecting things for all of us at a state or local level, and there really is no democratic or exception process.
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This happens all day, everyday, in ALL aspects of our lives.

The people that make laws don't have to live by/abide by them. So they are the opposite of common sense.
 
I've never done one of these swaps, so just my understandings of the issue...

Yes, the engine has to be newer than the vehicle, regardless of the year of the vehicle.
Often times, the grey area is that people try to put a random engine they pulled from the junkyard into a TJ or XJ, or whatever, and lack the correct exhaust routing, the correct ECU tune, not enough cat convertors, etc, to pass emissions...and then pass along incorrect info on the interwebs, them it all gets confusing. Not to mention, yes, each state is different, so it does get extra confusing.

However, from what I've read/seen in action, there are ways to get it done correct.

AEV does it with Mopar engines into JKs, all types of motors are swapped into 1996+ BMWs, GM sells 50 state legal EROD kits, and on and on. As far as the tuning required to make the engine know what vehicle it is swapped into, I don't know.

Even in CA, where everything post 1975 gets Smogged, people are swapping engines everyday and get it past the smog nazis. Just takes time and the understanding of the law.
 
Ron said:
The motor can be 50 state compliant, however the Vehicle is not without Prototype testing with the EPA.

I know what they are claiming and few inspectors nationally are sharp enough to catch what they are doing. I would wager that the NC DMV doesnt agree with the statement that motor is legal in a JK.
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Nc dmv does not care as long as......
The new motor is from same year or newer

All epa equipment is the for both motors is present.

This is what 2 different inspectors told me when i was looking at swapping the excurison.
 
snappy said:
Nc dmv does not care as long as......
The new motor is from same year or newer

All epa equipment is the for both motors is present.

This is what 2 different inspectors told me when i was looking at swapping the excurison.
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"Does not care" and "legal" are two totally different things though. I researched, read, called, and met with somewhere between 15 and 20 individuals that would have a relevant opinion on this matter including 3 local fab shops capable of doing a swap like this, 2 inspection stations, and others who have done a motor swaps themselves.

The consensus was..... No consensus lol.


The only absolute black and white legal way I found was registering your vehicle as custom one off vehicle. Which means it has to be inspected by the dmv and approved as a custom vehicle. Outside of that, everyone had opinions that sounded logical, but couldn't be confirmed. For example, things I was told by people I think are credible, but I never found as 100% accurate for legality:
  • Motor had to be from the manufacturer as the car (Hemi/Jeep, LS/Chevy, etc)
  • Motor had to be same year or newer as car it's going into
  • Must retain catalytic converters
  • Must be tuned to the original VIN number
  • Must use stock gauges
  • Must have a check engine light

If you call the dmv, the person answering the phone likely won't know and will just tell you that you can't do it. That is my experience anyway. Just make sure you have a "good" inspection station.
 
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