Moral Dilemma (Long Read)

BallzF250

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Location
Wilmington
So here's the deal...my buddy owed me some money and was making steady payments until February. The balance is now $237. We had an argument about some record keeping and I caved and dropped it down to $200. In May I moved a few hours down the road. We talked in June and agreed that he would start saving up the $200 and we'd square up in October when we all get together again. Well our camping trip in October was a blast and I forgot to ask him about the money...and I guess he forgot to give me the money...or he just didn't have it. Whatever...point is, we didn't square up like we had planned. Obviously, it's 2 months later and I think I have talked to him once or twice since we last saw each other.

Well he has a mud truck that he pretty much built himself. It's nothing super special and if I had to guess it's probably worth $2,500 on a good day, but in it's current state...I don't know if $1,000 is even worth it. It has a busted transfer case, busted drive shaft, no front drive shaft, I believe some coolant issues if I recall correctly, and has been sitting for just over a year. I know because I was there when he broke it and I helped tow it to the place where he keeps it stored. One of the last few times I talked to him, he said that he "lost it to storage" (some of you may have seen my other POST about trying to locate the owners of the storage site). When I heard this, I was thinking...ok maybe I can pay to get his truck out of storage for him and just keep it since he won't pay me. I was able to get an email address that might be able to set me in the right direction.

So I'm waiting to hear back from the people I emailed. But in the meantime, I'm trying to plan out how to go about this. The way I see it, I pay to get my buddy squared with the storage site. I take the truck for myself...since I will now be in the hole for even more. I fix the truck and either keep it as my toy or sell it. My dilemma...if all goes as planned and I'm able to afford to get my buddy squared with the storage site...do I tell my buddy that I'm taking the truck...or what I'm even doing for that matter?

If I DON'T tell him...then he'll never know, but I can never have him come visit and he can't find out that I have his truck because he'll freak out and blow up and our "friendship" or whatever it is would pretty much be over (which it's already on the rocks in my book).

If I DO tell him...then he'll probably be upset that I went behind his back, but at least the truck will still be in our group of friends. And if I do decide to sell it, he'll probably want a chunk of the money...which I would of course take the original $237 he owed me plus the cost to "rescue" it from storage plus the cost in parts to fix it. IF there was anything left after all that...he'd probably want all of it...but my time isn't free and is worth about $28/hr.

So do I tell him...or do I just leave him in the dark? Also...are there any legal issues anyone can think of? I don't think the truck is titled and it's definitely NOT street legal. And I don't think his arrangement with the storage site was contractual or on the books or anything. I think it was more of a gentleman's agreement...but I'm not clear on those details.

And one final thought...if this whole thing goes my way...I probably won't feel bad about it because he owes me money, I take something of value to recoop my cost (even though it might add to the overall amount he owes me), and it's simply business. But should I feel bad? I mean he's a good friend and he's got my back...he's just not the type you loan money too (yeah I learn things the hardway sometimes).

So...thoughts...concerns...advice...just feel like sayin "Stick it to the Man"...let's hear it
 
Yeah...something like that. We're on awkward terms if you want to call it that. I guess I should have called him more of an acquaintance...
 
Never loan money with expectations of getting it back, that way it's a plus if you do. Get over it, move on, don't even consider the truck deal.
Go back at him with one last mention about the money, put it in his lap and move on.
 
LIFE LESSON: Never loan money to friends.. They wont be your friend in the end..

On that note, I would let em know. Theoretically you would be doing him a favor. Sounds like he doesnt need or use the truck regularly so it might not be a huge loss. Sounds like youll end up losing alot of money in the end if you go that route. If you tell em, then he pays to get the truck out before you can get it, then that shows he had the money initially but was holding onto it until you asked for it again....

Its a slipperly slope, but I would give em an ultimatum to pay on a certain date, then if he doesnt, then consider that as the invitation to get the truck. Dont keep em in the dark though. Best of luck!
 
Yea I agree with everyone else, $200 isnt that much to forget about.. but then again its the principal of the matter..
 
I mean I understand its just $200 and not a lot of money but for some of us that's a car payment. That's groceries for a month. I guess what really ticks me off is when I find out he's going out to bars every night drinking or taking a trip to NYC for the weekend. If everything was reversed everyone would be saying oh that's screwed up, pay back your debts...so I guess I don't see the difference here.
 
I would make mention of the $200 again, for sure. More than that, I'd ask when he will pay it back. If he can't come up with it, or says money is tight, then ask if he will give you the title (if there is one) to that truck in storage. Or, get a bill of sale from him. You need to be up front about it. I don't see any moral dilemma here, if done that way. If he refuses to pay or give you the truck, that is HIS moral dilemma, not yours. Even then, you can likely be squared up if you keep on him. If you let it slide, you will never see the money.

You just have to be straight with him and with yourself. You will get in a mess if done like you are describing.

Edit:

You just posted before I posted. You NEED to get on him about the money. He may have forgotten. Obviously you haven't. Don't blame him yet. If you contact him twice a week for the next month and no response, then there is an issue to deal with.

And, upon reading once again, did it ever occur to you that trying to take his vehicle without his knowledge is STEALING? Hope you don't treat your employer this way!
 
Well put bronco. I have had to deal with this too many times (see old thread about roommate situation). Im a smaller fella and never really get in peoples faces when it comes to debts, but when push comes to shove and people think you are spineless you have to take what is rightfully yours. Whenever a debt is involved through a verbal contract with aquantances it almost never works out as discussed and usually expect to take a loss. Every time Ive had to ask when they will pay whats owed, they take offense and try to intimidate me, that just makes it worse. Stay cool, calm and collected. Ask about the debt, when he can pay it. If he doesnt have an definate answer then give him a date to pay it (do give too long of an extension or you will be back to posting on this thread). If you know when he gets paid then setup the payment for that date so that money doesnt get spent.

There is no moral delimma on your part except for the fact that you let em slide.. Now its time to settle up!
 
Broncosbybart: It has occurred to me that could be considered stealing. But I really don't think that'd be the case since he hasn't paid storage fees on it. Any other storage facility will auction the vehicle off to regain their loss. I would think of it as auctioning it to me for the difference in storage fees.

As for you implying that I steal from my employer...that's just messed up! I'd appreciate if you didn't imply accusations of such things...I've worked hard for everything I have.

Getting back to the original post...
 
I dont feel the same way about the truck as bronco does. If he lost the truck to storage because he didnt pay the fees it is his fault. It would be no different to me than buying one that someone i didnt know had let go because of not paying the fee. Considering the amount of used cars that are previously repossessed do you feel bad for buying one because someone else lost it by not paying their loan?
 
Storage Wars is on the other end of the US from here .... I can almost guarantee the rules here are different than CA. ( but I have seen them sell 2 cars out of units)
If it is defaulted on in storage and they can sell it, it's out of your "friends" hands.
If you want the truck, get it .... if it's a default, it's none of his business.
Now the money ..... probably ain't gonna get it at this point.
Move on.


Matt
 
Question: Did you know about the storage fees before or after you leant him the money?
 
I didn't know about the fees. I try not to get into other people's finances. I just found out about the storage situation about 2 weeks ago.
 
OK I was gonna say why lend em money if he had other debts.. so how ya think you'll resolve everything?
 
i dont think thats stealing at all, and i completely understand where your comin from. its not about the money, its about the thought of it. ive been lucky and got paid back when i loan my buddies money, and i pay them back if i borry money. i say ask him about the money, if he says he aint got it tell him about your thoughts on what you want to do to even it up. but add a few things in like so " well if you aint got the money, can you do some work for me, or give me that bald set of 37s in your garage, or heck how bout ill pay to get that truck outa storage blah blah blah blah"
 
Sorry, I did get a bit carried away. However I would consider that stealing and did have a big problem with the thought of that being entertained. Learned a long time ago that it is best to be open and up front about everything.
 
If the storage company has claimed ownership get the truck from them.

Consider the $200 an investment to get what appears to be a dead beat out of your life. It's usually money well spent.
 
after reading all this,the best way i can sum it up is a guy that you think is your friend but in reality is just some bum owes you 200 bucks.you seem to think you can some how get what you are owed through some crazy horse trading and it not blow up in your face. well good luck with all that........let it go and consider it a very cheap lesson in life.
 
So I have to talk to my buddy cuz the ppl at the storage place won't give me the details I need and don't seem like they want to deal with me. Guess it makes it all pretty simple now.
 
My grandpa always taught me that sometimes someone owing you money is the best investment you can make. I have a guy that owes me $300 and has for over a year. He was a major pain to deal with but I haven't heard from him since. To me, not having to hear from him is well worth $300.
 
First of all - NEVER "loan" money to friends. If you give them some money or pay for something they need, consider it a gift or a favor. One that may never be repaid.

If your "friend" had the money in October, he would have brought it up to get you off his back. If you brought it up it probably would have ruined the trip.

If you manage to get the truck that transaction would be between you and the storage unit guy, and at that point the truck would be yours - not your friend's. There's no point adding any more debt, responsibility, burden or ownership to a guy who obviously can't handle what little he had before.

Long story short - tell the guy you want his truck but if you get it, it will be yours. He lost it to the storage guy. You'll have to buy it from the storage guy. End of story. Offer him one last chance to pay you what he owes you (before the truck). If he doesnt pay, find some other way to settle the debt (trade, work it off etc) or leave the debt unsettled and terminate the friendship.
 
This is just my view on it...
1. Forgive the debt, and tell him you are releasing him from the debt. This debt seems to be effecting you more than him. Just forgive it and move on.
2. As far as the truck in storage repo. Once the storage company takes possession of the truck it no longer belongs to your "friend". You are free and clear to do as you wish. If you feel it would be profitable to purchase this truck from the storage company, then that is just business... nothing to do with friendship.

Something to consider...
If your friend could not make payments to the storage company to keep his truck, what are the chances that he will pay you back?

A friend of mine fell on hard times and asked if he could borrow some money for Christmas. I took the money out and told him that he could only have it on one condition... that he let me bless him with the money, and understand that it was not a loan. That if in the future he had the money to pay me back... that he pay it forward to someone else that was in need.
 
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