NC 4x4 clubs!

rockcity

rockcity

everyday is a chance to get better
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Location
Greenville, NC
There aren't enough!!! I think we have room for about 7 more! :flipoff2:



Seriously, do we need a new club every couple of weeks? The existing 19 clubs that exist don't offer enough?


No wonder attendance is low for "club" rides from some of the long-time older NC clubs...
 
eh, you know how that dang new generation is...
 
rockcity said:
No wonder attendance is low for "club" rides from some of the long-time older NC clubs...
Click to expand...
ummmm,my friend,if memory serves me correct,you sat in meetings with very little input.The only ride I remember you going on was to M.C. and that was really just to set up a ECOR's race.I had a big discussion one meeting about a group that sat to my right,ordered beer and talked amongst themselves without any input as to rides and such.One of the reasons I quit being a member of a "payed" club. Sorry if I have come across harsh Rob but this thread hit's home with me.
 
I wouldnt care if there were 500 clubs as long as folks were having fun wheeling and learning the proper ways of wheeling, and banding together to help our sport and image.
 
Yeah there are a lot of clubs, mostly just groups of guys who wheel together. They come up with a name, maybe make some shirts, hats and so on. Biggest reason they are here, and in the club section is just a great way to communicate among themselves.
I myself am a member of Two, Carolina Trail Blazers, celebrating 40 years as a organized club this year. All CTB'ers are also a member of Southern 4WD association, and United 4WD drive association. Club ride every month, a great group of guys.
I am also a member, and board member of Rock Corps 4X4. We are for the most part a local group, but have members across the state. We lease and maintain a piece of land many of you know of called The Flats. We started up just a couple of years ago because we wanted a place to wheel, that we didn't have to drive so far to do it. It has grown bigger than we thought. Hosting events, open invites, helping out Charity's, and some folks in need.
Then you have The Big Dixie Boggers. IMO these guys are more of a brotherhood, than a club.
The Trail Jammers. Another great group of guys, small group, but met many of them, and like them all.
CNC, seem to be more of a work horse group. I have seen many of them out on the trails, but mostly hear about the work they have done at URE.

All told, yeah there are a lot of them, and for the most part, have their own contribution to the Wheeling world. A small group or club if they choose to known as one, is a great place to start in this sport.
It gives everyone a place they would like to call home, and a place to get idea's, see what works, don't work, and get away from real life of work and family.
Best part of so many clubs, is that they all support the business's that support us in fab and parts.
 
What is the problem with there being more clubs?

This same exact issue was brought up just the other day by the other half of the ecors team, and was discussed and Saf t Scissors said his opinion and his reasoning for allowing this. So why push the issue? How is it affecting you? Is it somehow preventing people from seeing the ECORS section of the site?

There are 10 Club forums on this site, that is 10 organizations of wheelers, all on one website, all with one interest. The better organized we as a community, the better prepared we are, and the better this community will continue to be, so what is the problem?

I started Triad Trail Junkies in October of last year, mostly friends I have wheeled with for years, and more recently just some great people I have met who wanted to be a part of the group. We are a younger group, mostly 18-25, but we want to wheel, we want to protect the trails, and we are more than willing to do volunteer work to help keep trails open, and within 24 hours every member of the club will be a Supporting Member of NC4x4. We aren't as experienced as the older Clubs, we do not have a big piece of property we can wheel, and we don't have the knowledge to host the big charity events like the CTB, BDB, and the Rock Corps folks do, but hopefully in a few years, we will be a little more experienced, a little more knowledgable, and a little more helpful to the community as a whole, and thats what its all about isn't it?
 
One of the downsides to a large number of small clubs, vs a small number of large clubs is the age old adage that there is strength in numbers.

A large, organized group, such as the AFL-CIO has a much larger voice than a group of 5 tanker truck drivers.

A large group of 4wd enthusiasts can have a much larger impact on how our government responds to our interests than many small groups that don't seem to be one voice.

Compare it to getting hit with a birdshot shell vs a ball. Much more impact when the pellets are joined together.

As an example witness the Tellico OHV closure. When the Forest Service had to decide who it wanted to be sued by, it chose to be sued by a small group of 4wd enthusiasts vs being sued by the billion dollar, Ted Turner backed, SELC.

IMO one of the real problems we face as a 4wd community is a lack of voice. SFWDA has tried to fill that role in the southeast but just as we are seeing in this thread, there is a lot of bickering within our ranks :( Blueribbon Coalition, NOHVA, UFWDA, and many others try to advocate for us but it's just like the so many small clubs we are talking about. If we could go to congress with a 5 million vote voice we would have an impact. We are going to congress with 5 million, one vote voices and it has no impact!

My hope has been that NC4x4, under Shawn and Cydney's leadership, can bring our disparate voices together to have more of an impact in 4wd rights not only in NC but in the entire southeast area!
 
Well said JC. I think this is what the op was intending the tone to be. I agree that maybe we are getting too many clubs in the fact that a club of 10-15people doesn't have the "pull" or inpmact of a group of 50, this is my train of thought. I am in a club, well more like an extended family. Clubs are great but need to be maintained and part of the bigger whole. Here's a prime example, The BDB has a biannual event at the Farm, the Rock Corp club shows up in force, ie be willing to bet there % of attendies as in th e90% range, like wise the BDB pulls into the Flats, we back up on the Highway. Small clubs are great but have always wondered why there is "chapters" as in a CTB of the triad with small meetings between the big meets??? This would make more sense to me because then you have a bigger pull as JC stated.

As long as Clubs don't get butt hurt bc of what another club says or does then the more the merrier but this thread already has been taken personal by some, but only if we all unite for the common good.....
 
The politics that come with a big club aren't for everyone. Just my 2 cents.
As a smaller group, we make a point to try to attend most open invite functions held by larger groups, most recently we showed up with 15-20 of us at the Efird Memorial.
Embrace the other clubs, in hopes or cooperation, instead of seeing them as opposition.
 
I'm a one man wolfpack, can I start a club? Seriously though, I don't really see the harm as long as everyone is fighting the good fight. Although I do understand the mentality of a bigger and stronger union. Given, I'm a horse $#!T member, and should probably be eliminated from the clubs I am a part of, but purely judging by posts on this site (I know it's not fair), I'd be willing to bet I wouldn't fit in so well or get along so well with some of the clubs. So I'm thankful their are a plethora of clubs to choose from so I can find the one that fits me.
 
Ugh, too many people have their panties in a wad this morning...


The issue that Ron brought up about clubs, I have no idea on that issue, I don't even really know what that issue was, Ron didn't call me and get me up to speed on it.:shaking:


I remember back in the mid 90s there were several clubs in NC, now it seems a new one pops up every month. Thats fine, it doesn't bother me, it was more of a joke/observation. Me, I'm not really part of any clubs. NCK, well, I think i've seen 1 person from there come to any of the ECORS events. I think I'm now the only member that has a buggy in the group. Call me crazy, but the buggy at URE just isn't nearly as exciting as Harlan, etc. So, I keep to myself there and try to make it to meetings when I can. When I bring up events or issues, nobody really pays it much mind, I'm the minority so, I now just trail ride when and where I can pre-running for ECORS.

I think JC understood my intention of the thread. I know for years members have moved on and such and speaking to several clubs, attendance numbers at rides are low. If there are 20 clubs and 2,000 people riding versus 5 clubs and 2,000 people riding, the numers are low for individual clubs today than if there were less.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a knock on new clubs, but merely a conversation starter about the # of clubs recently. JC is right, we lack a uniform voice and organization. SFWDA has tried this but most of the new clubs and the ones in NC are not members or have backed off being members. Why? From what I've seen, they feel/think its $$$ wasted with little to no return? What? Why?

The SE and NC needs a voice and with dozens of clubs, its much more difficult to voice it. Too many indians and no chiefs...
 
JC said:
IMO one of the real problems we face as a 4wd community is a lack of voice. SFWDA has tried to fill that role in the southeast but just as we are seeing in this thread, there is a lot of bickering within our ranks :( Blueribbon Coalition, NOHVA, UFWDA, and many others try to advocate for us but it's just like the so many small clubs we are talking about. If we could go to congress with a 5 million vote voice we would have an impact. We are going to congress with 5 million, one vote voices and it has no impact!
Click to expand...

I actually got an email the other day from a guy that is trying to get his own 4WDA off the ground.

I suggested that I thought his efforts would bear more fruit if applied within one of the existing organizations... but... that was not well-received. :lol:
 
Maybe the conversation we need to have is more about how we make the best use of the resources that we have. How we distribute information from the various advocacy groups back to the individual users and how we channel the advocacy and conservation efforts of those individuals back into a group where it will see the biggest benefit.
 
well, let me throw this out...

what about a NC4WDA?? or a Carolina 4WDA?? this would encompass many different clubs, have a few yearly rides and have the strong voice of many?? (our strength in numbers??)

Virginia has a pretty strong one, from what i hear...

just my .02

brian
 
I think there are several key points here. I know I thought the same thing when I saw the 'join my club' posts.

Personally I 100% advocate joining an existing club where possible. That said I'm in CTB and its really hard to make 2-3 hour trips just for a social event. They have taken note about being more central. This I think highlights the fact that people want to be in a club or group that is close to them. Some clubs have different vibes or feels that for what ever reason they feel the need to be in a different group. Be it a vehicle specific or mod level or capability etc... Fact is most bigger clubs have small sub groups in them, no harm at all. All the daredevils run off to tacking the death wheeling trails, while other tackle the easy stuff and yet others never seem to get out of the parking lot social
event. Who cares..

I think clubs need to fall into several levels, local/hometown, sub-regional (RTP/Triad/etc) regional (NC/SC/VA/etc) and national. Layer in the sub/regional main activities (4x4, events etc) its easy to understand why you would join a regional club as your only club, especially if your only active at the events and don't otherwise participate.

If your fortunate you join a club (that you like) that is local and fits into the 1 or more other categories. Otherwise your simply a member at large in a bigger club and missing out on the local activities, parties and gatherings. Many clubs never had those larger focus points in mind when setup and have grown to the point where that might be a good idea other don't care as they want to maintain that close knit feel. Other figure if you want what they got you will travel the distance, and stop your complaining. But the bottom line is to have that single voice you need to be visible at the local level, that means accessible and available, almost opposite of what most clubs want. To sum it up, how do you maintain a club that caters to hardcore harlan rides, as well as soccer mom rav4 types, both possibly interested in protecting OHV activities.




Snappy, I've pitched the regional chapter idea but it wasn't well received and though more as a divisor vs multiplier. Its hard to pitch an idea, that 'might' work with out any substantial numbers behind it. That said if there are people in RTP who are possibly interested in CTB but want a local presence for localized get togethers, in addition to the main wheeling trips, please PM me. I would be willing to host some unofficial gatherings if there is a demand for it...
 
well actually what boiled my blood this morning was the statement about new clubs pulling participation from existing clubs.Here is my take...

A little background first. I joined the same club Rob belonged to in early 2005.I was president the last 2 years I was a member.I was president when gas went to over 4 dollars a gallon and then when the economy tanked.I quit being a member over a year ago.Here is my thoughts as I WAS the guy sitting in the chair...

To have a successfull club,you need to have a percentage of participating members.I'm not talking about seat warmers either.I mean folks actually participating in club gatherings,runs,roadside pickups,M/G's etc,and discussions pertaining to the health of our hobby .The smaller the club,the higher the percentage needed.When you have 50 paid members and 20 show up,that is pretty good but when you have 15 paid members and the same 5 or 6 do the runs,M/G's,road side cleanups etc.,then you can see how this is going.It get's old real quick when you sit at a meeting and discuss events to everyone yet deep in your heart,you know who will be there.The clicks that form in a larger club maybe fine but when you are a smaller local club,they aren't needed at all. This in itself pulls division .I unfortunately had to let the whole thing go and get completely away.I won't belong to another paid club.No sir,no more.
4x4Everyone was formed last august after several of us had gotten together and discussed what we had seen happen in different clubs.Not just the one club that I belonged too but with the folks I wheeled with across the state that had belonged to other clubs.We formed and as of right now,we have close to 140 signed in.Do we charge a due? No!Do we have club officers? No! We do have members from exclusive clubs that are signed in and check out what we have going on.We pretty much save the political discussions and such for here on NC4X4.That, we haven't taken away from any club.You want to talk about putting a locker in a D35,talk to us.If you want to talk about saving a place to wheel,well that is better placed here on NC4X4.

I agree we do need a centralized voice to protect our hobby.IMHO,This website is the best venue we have until somebody comes up with the next best idea.

I needed to clear up my bitting post from this morning.I'm not apologizing for it.This is my experience and my thoughts on the OP's original statements.
 
There will always be clicks in a group of any size, there will always be people that are not as involved as others its the name of the game.


If you have 50 members and 20 regularly show up your doing very well. At one point in the club im with we had roughly 50 members, and only 5-10 would regularly go on trips. Anything locally (and URE runs) the % would be higher, but not for much else.
 
Black Bear said:
There will always be clicks in a group of any size, there will always be people that are not as involved as others its the name of the game.


If you have 50 members and 20 regularly show up your doing very well. At one point in the club im with we had roughly 50 members, and only 5-10 would regularly go on trips. Anything locally (and URE runs) the % would be higher, but not for much else.
Click to expand...
that is what we were running into .Being from the eastern part of the state,anything is long distance.Unfortunately the majority of regulars were driving atleast 50 miles one way to get together.It's a shame when you got more out-of-towners doing stuff than locals.
 
Jimmy, it was not directed at you or your club and it wasn't meant to be a negative statement. I just typed what I've heard the last year and what I've observed.


Point is, there are a lot of clubs out there with a lot of good participation. The older clubs that had over 100 PAYING members in years past are nearly 50% of that now. The same # of people are riding, just some have found niche clubs to be a part of now. That is fine. But, there is a leadership or "voice" problem with our community when 3 strong clubs that were once part of SFWDA are now divided into 19 clubs (just a guess...) where maybe 5 at most are part of SFWDA. SFWDA has been "our" voice on a regional/national level, but its grown weaker (it seems) over the past several years even with the growth of the # of clubs. Something is wrong with that. We all have the same voice as before but there is not defined avenue to channel it. SFWDA is there, but some clubs have pulled away from them. So, if you all don't want to be part of SFWDA, how do you get your voice heard??? Showing up at a "rally" or ride or charity event with 3 rigs isn't the way...
 
I know I am going to put myself under the boot heels of a few members of this forum for what I am fixin to say... I believe some of what has happened with SFWDA has to do with the funneling of monies into their coffers just to loose Telico.Kind of like loosing validitity.If I remember correctly,there was even some internal strife within SFWDA a few years back.Remember back,we voted as a club to pull from Southern as they increased dues 2 years in a row yet nothing was being seen as to pulling Telico out of danger.There is a term being used now a days that is called "Transparencies".At the time we couldn't see where the monies was going.Has it changed?
As to your statement about the older club's memberships dropping 50 percent, you will see that across the board in not just this hobby but others as well.Economy and fuel prices have really put a damper on anything long distance.The one saving grace I have with my reenacting group is the fact it is a "not for profit" organisation and money /mileadge is tax deductible.It helps just a little but not much.If it wasn't for the 150th anniverary being upon us now,we would see a drastic cut in our memberships.
 
The issue with SFWDA isn't yours alone. I stay a paid member of a club because it supports that clubs and allows it to operate BUT I have a paid membership in SFWDA and United4WDA. (Hell if you join CTB this year your money ahead since they are covering more of the cost to offer reduced fees this year) That said... I have had numerousness conversations with JC about SFWDA. The last conversation was almost 4 hours while we waited to hand out poker run cards to people at the last CTB fun caravan. I've asked him every question I could some answers still don't sit well with me... BUT ALL THAT SAID. I am still a member. I feel strongly that NOW is not the time to withdraw my membership dues. I'm still skeptical of the $ and stuff. Dono never seem to see the disclosures made. I hope its being looked after properly.

I see lots of SFWDA bashing but no other options. No one else is looking after our regional interests.

For those who are not in organized clubs, are you joining SFWDA, BlueRibbon and/or UNITED as a private member or not supporting our hobby in that way?
 
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