NC Public School system

mbalbritton

mbalbritton

#@$%!
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Location
Greensboro, NC
Maybe someone can explain this one to me.

We have a daughter who just started 2nd Grade. My Wife went to the first Parent Teacher meeting yesterday and came back pretty freakin pissed.

Apparently Maddie (our daughter) isn't finishing her in class work. Ok, we'll have a talk withher about it and do what we can from home to make sure she knows that she's suppose to do her work. But my question is, What are you as the Teacher going to do on your end to make sure she's doing her work? responce: Well we tell the class they need to finish what they are doing, that time is almost up for what they are working on. Well, that doesn't seem to be working, what else are you going to do? well, that's apparently all they do or can do.

Seems to me they are the ones that went to school to learn HOW to Teach, including keeping the kids interested and inspired to do thier work. I can't come in each day and make sure my kid is paying attention and doing her work. It's why I send them to school, for them to teach my kids just as I went to school to be taught.

We do our part in the evenings, siting down with her to do her homework. making sure SHE'S doing it (not us) and she understands why 35-5 is 30. Making sure she understands how to translate word problems into numerical problems, how to sound out and read words, and to understand that she does need to pay attention and do her work.

Hell, the teach said we should teach her how to read by first reading the sentence to her and her read it back. WTF! all she's doing is dictating then. We told the teacher No, we don't think so.

Do teacher just have their hands tied behind their back on teaching these kids they need to pay attention in class? that they are suppose to do their work in class? Yes these kids need classroom discipline! Am I wrong in thinking that's the teachers job?

no I don't think it's all up tothe teacher. There's work to be done at home too. I'm not panning off all the work on teachers, but I think (at least this one) isn't doing all she can or should be allowed to.

I'm pretty sure we have some teachers in this group, I'd like your thoughts on this too.
 
I understand your pain. I went thru many battles throughout the years with mine. My baby, just graduated high school.
The problems as I see it is the system it's self.
To begin with, I am not too enthused with the grade system. I believe that children learn at different paces. To say every child has 180 days to learn this amount stuff in my opinion is ridiculous. Some will learn things very fast, some will be much slower. so a system that would allow kids to learn, not just pat, but all of a subject, test in it and move on, makes much more sense to me. if all kids graduated with a certain amount of knowledge whether it took them 10 years or 14, would be a vast improvement over what happens now. just push them through!
As far as teachers are concerned, some have issues, some don't care, and some really do. In the years to come you will find this out for yourself.
But back to the system, it sucks for teachers too. Seldom do the teachers have enough planning time in their "at work day" to grade, prepare and so on. So in order for them to do their job, they have to take it home. Unpaid time.
For a teacher, and maybe a teachers aid to be able to keep all of 30 or so kids in check and on task is no simple undertaking. The state won't let a daycare operate with that kind of ratio, so why do our classrooms??
My biggest concern way back when is when I went to a parent teacher conference and was told all these things my kid did, or hasn't done. My question is why am I just learning about this?? Why didn't you call me? You have my home phone, business phone, page number, their moms numbers, grand parents numbers.... You asked for all of this, it is a tool, why didn't you use it. I loved hearing the excuse " I don't have time to call all of the parents" So I asked do you need to call all of us? pick up phone, dial number, hello this is Ms noteach, your son isn't behaving in class, and is not completing his work. Please address this at home, thanks, click........Now, how long did that take??

Ok so you touched on a sore spot for me
Good luck, stay on top of it, and demand the best for her.
 
I am not a teacher... but my wife is. So that means that I get to hear all the complaints, problems with the system and everything. Almost every day over dinner in fact.
Chip has raised a critical point. I do not know where you child is or what the classload is. But my wife has classes thsi year with 33 kids in them. That's right, 33 11 year olds in 1 room that is about 20x20". Oh did I say room? I meant trailer.
Why 33 kids? 1 teacher? She teaches in a "nice school" with good scores, right? Oh yes. That's *why* so many kids. Stupid federal laws say that if yer school is below their scores, then you automatically get to go to one that has high marks. But their scoring system is so F-ed up that only 2(!) in this county pass. So now she has a class full of kids that come from, lets just say, a "diverse background". And you bet yer arse there's some behavioral problems that come with that.
But I'm getting off the point here.
Trust me, she would *love* to be able to sit down and deal with each of her kids and help them all out. But it just is not possible. Like Chip mentioned, she has many kids ot keep up with. So, she does the very best she can, all the time. Oh and BTW the fact that you spend time doing it yeself in the evenings - that's 1 leg up on many other parents right there. She has kids that don't even see their parents in the evenings.
Discipline - yeah, they have to be creative about that too, Hands are indeed pretty tied. Esp in a district like ours, where there are parents that think that they are the end-all and be-all of society and nobody has the right to get on their kids about anything. So, to be honest many teachers get nervous about how much they can, er, "push" kids, for fear of some loony parent raising hell about it. And in the end, that just sucks for everybody. BTW, Chip - that's why teacher's aren't fans of calling parents. B/c half the time the parent is an asshole and turns it around on them. Wife and her teammates draw straws and argue over who has to call many parents.
Planning? Yeah, right. It's hard to get much planning/work done when during your "planning" time you have to give up yer classroom to another teacher, who dosn't have a room of her own at all. So when doesi t have to happen? The grading, planning organizing? At home, in the evenings, weekends, etc. Every Sunday afternoon my wofe is freaked out b/c of how much she has to do that afternoon just to get ready for the upcoming week. Meanwhile I'm laying under my truck or mowing the yard.
Of course this is more of a problem in middle schools b/c they rotate classes. But elementary - the teacher does not get a break. NO planning time, she has 30 kids ALL DAY. *Some* teachers get an assistant, but not many, and said assistant may or may not even have a college degree.

FYI, as far as info getting to parents - all kids in all middle school have "progress reports" sent home every 2 weeks. Now, whether the parents *recieve* it - that's not something teh teacher can control. Oh and BTW - how much time do you think it takes out of a teacher's alleged "planning time" to prepare 120 progress reports EVERY TWO WEEKS?

So... yeah... speaking of sore spots....

BTW, there's nothing wrong with that method of having the daughter parot back to you, as lon gas she see what the words are. Learning to read is all about associating visual bits ("graphemes") with phonology ("phonemes").

My point is just this. Take it easy on the teacher. In many ways, their hands are indeed tied. From what you have provided, this does, in itself, not sounds like a horrible teacher or anything. And trust me, they are out there.
 
Oh, I'm not bashing teachers by any means. I fully believe it's the system and the parents as you put it in this quote: "there are parents that think that they are the end-all and be-all of society and nobody has the right to get on their kids about anything."

Believe me, I agree with all you said RatLab (except maybe the reading technique at this point). Guess I was looking for confirmation that I was thinking right. The System and Teachers hands being tied.

Fortunatly her class is about 15 kids. Grated it's an..... Ethnically diverse group of kids, but a small class size none the less.
 
My mom is a teacher. The thought is correct, Hands are Tied. Before I was realy old enough to understand what she was dealing with, I was actually friends with a lot of children who had behavior problems. If things got bad on the playground, kids would fight. ANY adult around would come up and break things up. Us kids developed a respect for adults. If in middle school there was a disagreement, you would meet "after school" to sort it out.
(away from the adults).
Now my mom is dealing with children who do not have a respect for adults. She has had computers thrown through windows, desks thrown at her or her aid, kids slammed with chairs, etc. When all of this happens, she is NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH THE CHILD. She has from time to time broken this "commandment", if things looked dangerous. Each time, a parent would then complain that she had laid hands on their baby. (baby is from 12 to 14 years old)
What it all boils down to is if the parents would do their job, not baby some brat, then the teacher would be able to teach instead of worying about what they can and cannot do to settle the classs or remove any disruptions. This would alow the teacher time to help your daughter finish her work.
It sounds like you are doing your part. I am not saying you are a bad parent. If more parents were like you and cared that their children were actualy going to school to learn, not just to socialize, the teachers would have a better shot at teaching.
Also, for the parents who are not sure they understand what I am talking about, some simple things to help:
Your child should not have a cell phone in school. PERIOD
Your child speak ENGLISH
Underwear should not be seen once you leave the locker room.
Your child should wear their fitting pants around the waist. (If they need a belt, get them one. If they refuse to wear it, use it on them)
Sorry for wandering slightly off topic, but I think it plays a pretty big part in what you are asking
 
The school system became a joke when they quit beating kids. No respect=no learning
 
mbalbritton said:
Oh, I'm not bashing teachers by any means. I fully believe it's the system and the parents as you put it in this quote: "there are parents that think that they are the end-all and be-all of society and nobody has the right to get on their kids about anything."

Believe me, I agree with all you said RatLab (except maybe the reading technique at this point). Guess I was looking for confirmation that I was thinking right. The System and Teachers hands being tied.

Fortunatly her class is about 15 kids. Grated it's an..... Ethnically diverse group of kids, but a small class size none the less.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rule out a teacher issue. There are teachers who honestly care about each student and there are teachers who don't give a flying @#$!.

Our daughter was in 2nd grade last year and I know that if classwork didn't get done in time then there was a penalty. I can't recall what exactly, it was on the order of the rest of class got to participate in something fun while whoever hadn't finished was stuck doing their classwork.

I think a good teacher can overcome the problems in the system. Problems with the parents are another story. Teaching is a tough job, for sure.
 
Been teaching in Kannapolis City School for 10 years now, 4 years of 4th grade, 4 years of 6th grade S.S. and 2 years with Academically and Intellectually Gifted students in 5th and 6th. From the sounds of it, you've got a teacher that gives the minimum. But, I can't judge until I know the entire situation in the classroom. If I was you, I'd ask to observe your daughter's class. Not participate, just watch. See how the teacher does things, then make your judgements on how your child is being educated. If the teacher doesn't let you in the room to check things out, they've got something to hide.
 
One more thing for the people who think the teacher's "hands are tied" and kids just need a good whooping to do what they need to do. You're wrong. Teachers don't need to intimidate, yell, or be a general jerk to get kids to learn and do the right thing. If you keep kids actively involved in learning within a positive and fun environment, discipline takes care of itself. I spend each day maintaining positive relationships with each of the students I see. Because my they don't want to disappoint me, or let me down, all it takes is a look or a few quiet words to get them back on task. This is only accomplished because I established an atmosphere of mutual respect with everyone in the room.
 
In this particular class room I'm thinking it's not so much that the teacher doesn't care, but rather since the "rules of engagement" that the Teachers have with the kids limits what they can do. Coupled with a lack of imagination in finding a way to get the kids to do their work with a "look or a few quiet words" as John put it.

any other teachers out there?
 
4X4girl is a teacher for 5th graders. I am sure she will chime in when she gets home.
Someone brought up a good point about observing. I used to go to my kids school often, unannounced. I might have to eat three lunches, but my kids loved it.
I went once to find my oldest son outside in the hall twiddling his pencil. I asked the teacher why, he was being disruptive. So I took his desk, butted it against hers and told her to solve the problem, not push it to the side. I again give her my numbers, and after that, she would call me. More than once I went to school to do what teachers used to do.
When a period of time had went by and I had not been to the school, he principle saw me out and about and asked me where I had been. He said he needed more parents that would show up and let the kids know they cared, and also keep the teachers on their toes!
My daughter complained once that her "mean" teacher would not let her go to the bathroom. So I told her I would talk to him about it. Seems she needed to go to the bathroom at the same time everyday. so i came up with a plan. Let her go to the bathroom everyday for the week. Keep time of how long she was out of class. On Friday he told her she had missed an hour and 5 mins of his class time, and that she owed it to him him and would be staying after school to make it up. Funny how she no longer needed to go to the bathroom at that time, everyday!
My oldest kid got into trouble, said something he shouldn't have. he had to write I will not talk out in class unless it is the right time and place and on subject. 10 times! WOW 10 times. When he came home, his 10 times turned to 500, along with a full page written apology to the class, which I escorted him to class and was given the time for him to read it to them. Funny how there were no more issues with him the rest of that year.
as someone mentioned above, I don't think my kids butts don't stink( Ok it was said another way) Stay involved, keep working with her, keep in touch with her school. After all, it is a "public school"
 
The thing is Brent, you don't have to take a whole day off. 15 mins here, 45 there. Drop her off and stay a while, come in in late afternoon early enough to still see the class in action and not getting ready to leave. Eat lunch or what ever. You don't have to spend an entire day

Oh I thought of another story. My daughter had been selected for all county band. She had to be there early. She told me what time. She was 14, she didn't drive. Even though I tried, getting all the kids ready, I got her there late. She was upset with me. Even more so when she was told there would be punishment for being late to this extracurricular activity. She had to sit in silent lunch with the band director. I spoke to the director, and let her know my daughter was not at fault, she wouldn't hear of excusing her, so I went in her place. Funny thing is, She was told she wouldn't have to finish the other three days in silent lunch, oh, and I was also excused from it too.
 
I think a few questions need to be asked...

1) What % of students ARE completing their classroom work? IOW, is the teacher allowing ample time for the MAJORITY to complete the work? No sense in holding the MAJORITY back to cater to those students... add it to their homework & move on!

2) Or is it really too short for ALL of them (despite what the teacher says)?

3) Most importantly,*why* isn't Maddie finishing her classroom work?

As stated, observing the class & your child (not necessarily within the childs view or them knowing your there) should tell you the answers... trust but verify that what both teacher and student are telling you is the truth

When faced with these issues 5 years ago, we put Josh into private school. This year faced with a virtual @$$ raping in tuitions, Annette decided to give home schooling a shot. The actual requirements from the State appear to very simple and well within our grasp, as HS educated adults, to figure out. While I was (and continue to be) skeptical, it offers what's best for him... an interesting & challenging curriculum that is geared to HIS level... not that of the MAJORITY or what the State says he should be learning based on his age... Josh on the other hand has embraced it and appears to excelling in ALL areas, even though he'd have been in the 6th grade, but taking 7th-8th grade equivalent courses
 
Caver Dave said:
1) What % of students ARE completing their classroom work? IOW, is the teacher allowing ample time for the MAJORITY to complete the work? No sense in holding the MAJORITY back to cater to those students... add it to their homework & move on!
2) Or is it really too short for ALL of them (despite what the teacher says)?
3) Most importantly,*why* isn't Maddie finishing her classroom work?
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I was thinking. My daughter is a bright kid and she always scores at the top of her class. However, when it was time to do "centers" on their own she wasn't finishing her work. Hmm? My first question for the teacher was, "Are the other kids getting their work done?"

They were. My next question was for my daughter, "Why aren't you finishing your work?" She said other kids were distracting her but that didn't fly. If they are getting it done then the problem lies within my daughter. For the next few weeks while doing her homework we stressed a few lessons.

1) Keep your nose down and your pencil moving. Nobody is going to do it for you.
2) Time is limited, don't waste it.
After a few weeks things improved. The original poster may need to take a similar course of action.
 
Dave brings up a good point. In a lot of cases the child is bored and does not do well at a slow pace. In other cases they find other things to do like get into trouble. The more you can puch the limits of his or her abilitys, the better they will do
Home Schooling is a great option, if it is taken seriously and done right. I wish I had the oportunity to be able to do that.
 
johnski said:
Teachers don't need to intimidate, yell, or be a general jerk to get kids to learn and do the right thing. If you keep kids actively involved in learning within a positive and fun environment, discipline takes care of itself. I spend each day maintaining positive relationships with each of the students I see. Because my they don't want to disappoint me, or let me down, all it takes is a look or a few quiet words to get them back on task. This is only accomplished because I established an atmosphere of mutual respect with everyone in the room.
Click to expand...

This is what I meant by "get creative".
Along these lines, my wife has the best luck w/ using guilt and social stress - basically the kids will keep each other in line, esp she makes sure they feel like shit if they don't. Actually she only uses teh school "detention" a small handfull of times in a year... she says "I can torture them much better myself". Meanwhile they do lots of interactive things, and only do boring lexctures as a result of some kids being little snots and the group things begi nt fail. This makes all the other kids mad, and lets sjut say it gets taken care of socially.
And yet every year she hears from the incoming class how much they want her b/c the older kids have told her how much they love her.
Eitehr way, as mentioned, as long as you are a motivated, interactive prent - teach should be more than happy to have you, and work wit hyour child. If not - she's missing the boat.
 
vanguard said:
This is exactly what I was thinking. My daughter is a bright kid and she always scores at the top of her class. However, when it was time to do "centers" on their own she wasn't finishing her work. Hmm? My first question for the teacher was, "Are the other kids getting their work done?"
They were. My next question was for my daughter, "Why aren't you finishing your work?" She said other kids were distracting her but that didn't fly. If they are getting it done then the problem lies within my daughter. For the next few weeks while doing her homework we stressed a few lessons.
1) Keep your nose down and your pencil moving. Nobody is going to do it for you.
2) Time is limited, don't waste it.
After a few weeks things improved. The original poster may need to take a similar course of action.
Click to expand...

I certainly won't rule this idea out! I'm not about to say my kid can do no wrong. Hell In school I was the numb nut not paying attention cause I was drawing airplanes, cars and motorcycles in the margins.

Maybe these exrcises you mention are what we need to do at home. Then hope the teacher can keep the same direction in class.
 
Macdaddy4738 said:
oh boy...get ready, because its just going to get worse
Click to expand...
What do you mean by this?
mbalbritton said:
In this particular class room I'm thinking it's not so much that the teacher doesn't care, but rather since the "rules of engagement" that the Teachers have with the kids limits what they can do.
Click to expand...
I still don't understand what you mean by "rules of engagement." Do you think teacher's aren't allowed to be tough or rigid anymore? They get too much flak for it?
RatLabGuy said:
This is what I meant by "get creative".
Click to expand...
I don't think it's creative, just logical. I try to be the teacher I'd want my own children to have in school.
 
johnski said:
I still don't understand what you mean by "rules of engagement." Do you think teacher's aren't allowed to be tough or rigid anymore? They get too much flak for it?
Click to expand...

yes that is what I mean. They are affraid of over steppingbounds of what they can and can't do without hurting the feeling of the kids and getting parents in an uproar about it. I personally feel that if a kids embaressment infront of his/her peers keeps them inline... well, there's nothing wrong with a little humility. It's keeps us all in check I think.
 
johnski said:
What do you mean by this?
I still don't understand what you mean by "rules of engagement." Do you think teacher's aren't allowed to be tough or rigid anymore? They get too much flak for it?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing he means they can't legally reach out with the wooden yardstick and whop the troublemakers across the neck, ruler to the hand, or paddle to the @$$... like it used to be in Americas school systems and for hundreds of years at home!

Corporal punish DOES work! Ask any thief in India!... Or that little punk they caned for vandalizing cars! You can bet it only took ONCE! :D

I got my @$$ tanned with a belt/hickory switch at home & a wooden paddle (sadistic looking things too!) at school... and can honestly say I don't recall any I didn't deserve :flipoff2:
 
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