Nelson Mandela: Terrorist

War is ugly, that whole apartheid fight was basically a civil war. Ugly and nasty stuff happened, but the same thing happened in a lot of other civil wars, ours included.

For all the bad things he may have done, no one can argue the good things he did for SA and to end oppression there.
 
Just a little FYI if anyone is concerned...

The hero of the anti-apartheid struggle was not the saint we want him to be.
The image of Nelson Mandela as a selfless, humble, freedom fighter turned cheerful, kindly old man, is well established in the West. If there is any international leader on whom we can universally heap praise it is surely he. But get past the halo we’ve placed on him without his permission, and Nelson Mandela had more than a few flaws which deserve attention.
He signed off on the deaths of innocent people, lots of them
Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights
-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983
-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985
-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988
-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986
-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead
-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987
-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988
Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”
 
Blaze said:
War is ugly, that whole apartheid fight was basically a civil war. Ugly and nasty stuff happened, but the same thing happened in a lot of other civil wars, ours included.

For all the bad things he may have done, no one can argue the good things he did for SA and to end oppression there.
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No one is arguing war is hell. Im arguing he was a terrorist and our flag should not be disgraced to fly at half staff. Have you people forgotten Pearl Harbor is tommorrow? Obama ordered the flag lowered until monday in his honor, what the hell are we going to lower it to 1/4 for Pearl Harbor? Be American....
 
I'd entirely agree that he was a terrorist, communist, and a horrible person. He pleaded guilty to 156 counts of public violence which landed him his 27 or 28 year prison sentence. However, he DID do a lot for South Africa, and apparently people liked him enough to vote him in to presidency. Do I like him? Ehh...not really. Of course, the Facebook memes have blown up and that's all most people know of him. I've even seen some that said "Welcome to Heaven, Mr. Mandela". That kind of disgusted me, honestly.

With that being said, I choose not to really give a damn that he died as it doesn't have any bearing on my personal life. We also shouldn't fly our flag at half staff for a man who was banned from our country until 2008.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
I'd entirely agree that he was a terrorist, communist, and a horrible person. He pleaded guilty to 156 counts of public violence which landed him his 27 or 28 year prison sentence. However, he DID do a lot for South Africa, and apparently people liked him enough to vote him in to presidency. Do I like him? Ehh...not really. Of course, the Facebook memes have blown up and that's all most people know of him. I've even seen some that said "Welcome to Heaven, Mr. Mandela". That kind of disgusted me, honestly.

With that being said, I choose not to really give a damn that he died as it doesn't have any bearing on my personal life. We also shouldn't fly our flag at half staff for a man who was banned from our country until 2008.
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Thats the issue, you should give a damn. Our country has gone to shit because people don't generally give a damn anymore.
 
It is my opinion that the American flag should never be flown at half mast for anyone except an American.
 
85 toy said:
It is my opinion that the American flag should never be flown at half mast for anyone except an American.
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really.
So if say the Prime Minister of the UK, or Canada, our closest allies, were shot and died tomorrow, you don't think we should fly at half mast?
It's a sign of respect. They have, and would do it for us.
 
It is my opinion that the American flag should never be flown at half mast for anyone except an American.
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I agree, but we in recent history have gone a bit overboard with who we fly half mast for. James Gandolfini and Whitney Houston for example. They are not national heroes. They are celebrities. My skin crawls when I think of flags flying half mast for those two clowns, but the soldiers lives lost every day get overlooked.
 
RatLabGuy said:
really.
So if say the Prime Minister of the UK, or Canada, our closest allies, were shot and died tomorrow, you don't think we should fly at half mast?
It's a sign of respect. They have, and would do it for us.
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This example I don't necessarily agree or disagree with, but something of 9/11 proportions in another country, I would consider it. I understand the diplomatic reasons behind it, but I hate how diluted the principal has become.
 
RatLabGuy said:
really.
So if say the Prime Minister of the UK, or Canada, our closest allies, were shot and died tomorrow, you don't think we should fly at half mast?
It's a sign of respect. They have, and would do it for us.
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I knew if anyone disagreed with MY opinion it would be you. Let me say this as MY opinion. I don't give a fuck about the UK, Canada or any of our allies. WE, the USA have saved all their asses a hell of a lot more than any of them have helped us. Our flag flies for American's and American's only. obummer feels diferntly so I feel the same about him as I do the UK and Canada.
 
Oh I do give a damn, just not about him in particular. I also, obviously, care enough to educate myself on this situation/person and form my own views.

So...what's the problem? :)


I mean, I didn't know the guy personally. Maybe if I had I could tell anyone within a shout of a doubt that he was or wasn't a horrible person. I can only go by information that is available to me for my reading pleasure. Most anything he did was done before I was born anyway.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
Oh I do give a damn, just not about him in particular. I also, obviously, care enough to educate myself on this situation/person and form my own views.

So...what's the problem? :)


I mean, I didn't know the guy personally. Maybe if I had I could tell anyone within a shout of a doubt that he was or wasn't a horrible person. I can only go by information that is available to me for my reading pleasure. Most anything he did was done before I was born anyway.
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Our country has gone to shit because people don't generally give a damn anymore. That is the problem I was referring to. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Fawk no, the American flag should not be lowered for any reason, besides paying respect for to a prominent American who died. I was wondering why the flag was half mast, my 9-yr old son said it was for a famous leader that died. I said Nelson Mandela?, he said yes that's it. I said no way, they only lower it for Americans. I thought maybe it was Pearl Harbor, but that didn't seem right, I don't remember them doing it any other year. I was shocked to find he was right.
 
does anyone realize that this country is only a couple hundred years old or more importantly what that means.it means that unless you are 100% american indian then your family tree starts in some other country. like it or not we are all from somewhere else.don't get me wrong,i'm just a back woods red neck that loves my country,but that don't mean i have to say fuck you to the rest of the world. there i said it so let's hear it.
 
I understand flag etiquette. I don't mind flying half mast for important figure heads. The thing I just can't wrap my mind around is, the US classified the guy as a terrorist as recently as 2008. People want to say war is hell, I agree...and they want to throw the revolutionary war out there as a rebuttle. Do you figure Great Britain lowers their flag to honor the US's victory? Another popular rebuttle is the flag flew half staff for the Pope's death...I didn't know the US ever classified him as a terrorist??? I wonder what the hell Margaret Thatcher did worse than organizing bombings and killing innocent people, to not have the flag flown at half staff for her death.
 
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