New HVAC

Cherokeekid88

Cherokeekid88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Location
High Point, NC
I know I have been posting a few threads lately, but I just keep having things come up. So our newest dilemma is we had a work friend come over and test our AC and come to find out, we need a whole new system. Our indoor Air handler is 30 years old and our outdoor unit is 12 years old. Our Coil is leaking and there is a crack inside the furnace and just doesn't cool our house down at all and it just struggles to even work half the time and its just time and with a baby coming in the next couple of weeks, it has be cool in that house for her.
So, we have a company that my wife's family has been using for years and personally knows them and we have also used to replace various parts on our system. We currently have a gas furnace and electric AC and had planned on keeping that same set up. We have someone coming out either tomorrow or Thursday to talk to us about what we are wanting and give us an estimate. We are also going to get a few more just to compare.
Anything that I should know? Everyone I have talked to said to go with Trane, which this company is an authorized Trane dealer. If we are going to get a whole new system, I want to get something that is quieter and energy efficient. My in laws, who are blessing us with this new system, just got a new unit from the same company and bought a Trane and they love it.
So I am just looking for some advice, so that we get a good system and know the questions to ask. We currently have a 2.5 ton unit and live in just a little over 1500sqft house. Would you guys recommend upping it to a 3 ton unit?
 
I wouldn’t be dead set on Trane. Keep options open and compare prices with comparable brands. Trane can sometimes be twice the price of comparable other brands and many of the components may be the same.

Keep an open mind.


Remember, most any warranty will just cover parts only and you have to pay labor. So even an issue covered under warranty could cost you quite a bit of $ with labor. Most of the parts aren’t that expensive anyway. Is that potential savings on parts alone worth spending the extra price of Trane? Cost vs actual benefit?

I’ve replaced about 5 systems in the past and never once has the added cost of a Trane been justifiable. Of course I over analyze the crap out of it with expected operating costs, recommended manufacturer maintenance, historical warranty claims, anticipated useful life, etc. Yours may be different for your situation.
 
rockcity said:
I wouldn’t be dead set on Trane. Keep options open and compare prices with comparable brands. Trane can sometimes be twice the price of comparable other brands and many of the components may be the same.

Keep an open mind.


Remember, most any warranty will just cover parts only and you have to pay labor. So even an issue covered under warranty could cost you quite a bit of $ with labor. Most of the parts aren’t that expensive anyway. Is that potential savings on parts alone worth spending the extra price of Trane? Cost vs actual benefit?

I’ve replaced about 5 systems in the past and never once has the added cost of a Trane been justifiable. Of course I over analyze the crap out of it with expected operating costs, recommended manufacturer maintenance, historical warranty claims, anticipated useful life, etc. Yours may be different for your situation.
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I have just always heard great things about Trane. What other brands are worth considering? Goodman?
 
You'll be looking at around $6500-7k I'd bet. They most likely sell and install other brands probably Goodman. Trane units have issues just like the rest a lot of it really is in the install and that's what you're paying for anyway--only 2500 of that will be for the actual HVAC.
 
I’ve had good luck with Goodman, Carier, American Standard

I’ve installed more Goodman than anything else. Replaced a 6 year old Trane unit with a Goodman. The cost to repair it was within $400 of replacing with a new one and the new one is more efficient.

They each have their goods and bads. Nothing against Trane besides price as they tend to be more $ than others and from my experiences and use, with little to no added benefit. To add, I have never bought a new Trane, only replaced them due to age or premature failure and repair costs that were not cost effective. The units I have put in within the last 10 years (not a single Trane) have not had a single repair or issue beyond regular servicing. That has been my experience. Yours and others may be different.

Just keep an open mind and explore all options. Research each unit model yourself and don’t rely on the sales pitch of the contractor so you can formulate an unbiased opinion. Remember, the contractor is motivated by profits both now on the install and on the servicing.
 
Most of the HVAC guys that I have had put systems in my houses have said, they all break the same amount regardless of brand. I have been using Goodman/Amana most of the time when I have replaced them recently now. The smaller guys also don't sell Trane much because of the volumes they require to be a dealer is also what one of the guys told me (could be a bunch of crap though).
 
I have no problem going with something other than Trane, I just want something that is going to work and work well. I want something that is going to be energy efficient and quiet(er).
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
I have no problem going with something other than Trane, I just want something that is going to work and work well. I want something that is going to be energy efficient and quiet(er).
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Anything is going to be more energy efficient and quieter than a 10+ year old system. The pay back on most houses for something more than 12/13 SEER though isn't there.
 
DSM Turbos said:
Anything is going to be more energy efficient and quieter than a 10+ year old system. The pay back on most houses for something more than 12/13 SEER though isn't there.
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Yeah, I am not trying to get the biggest and the baddest thing on the market, just something I will be happy with. I was reading that I think the new minimum SEER is 14 now. American Standard, Goodman, Armana, and Trane seem to have the best overall ratings with complaints on all of them.
 
I woudlnt buy Trane if it was the same price these days. To me their quality has gone way down hill.

Trane owns/makes American Standard. They are the same exact components. AS is usually last years Trane model.
United Technologies Corp - Makes Carrier, Bryant, Payne, Heil and Tempstar
Lennox makes Ducan, Armstrong, Concord and Allied
Rheem makes Rudd
Goodman makes Amana and Janitorl
York makes Colemaan and Luxaire
Nortek makes Maytag, Westinghouse, Frigidaire

Those are the major players in the industry.
For all my rental units I have been installing Tempstar for several years because my local trusted HVAC guy is a Tempstar dealer and they offer a 10 year Parts, Labor and Mileage warranty as an adder.
If he switched to Goodman Id be using them. Lennox makes good equipment as well.

The Goodman and United technologies families use more industry generic parts. For example when the American Standard on my house had a capacitor blow, the stock mounting location is such that only a Trane Capacitor will fit. Its the goofiest shaped cap Ive ever seen. Now I extended a few wires and relocated that bitch, but you may not feel comfortable doing the same...meaning ou will be paying for a proprietary part. The average HVAC company charges $150 for a cap. They cost <$20 at the HVAC supply store. The Trane special cap costs $179 at the supply store. What do you think a repair shop is going to charge for that odd shaped bastard?
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
I want something that is going to be energy efficient and quiet(er).
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Energy efficient is just math. SEER is just the energy it's "supposed" to use, divided by the energy it actually uses. That's best-case in a test environment. If you put the unit in an unconditioned attic, it's not going to be very efficient, and that has nothing to do with the numbers on the side of the box. Likewise, you could replace a 10 SEER unit with a 15, and if it's in an old house with shitty windows, it's probably not going to make much of a difference.

When you say "quieter", which part of the system are you talking about? Noise at the diffusers and returns is a design problem. High velocity equals noise. Variable speed fans can fix it, but they cost money. If you mean the condensing unit, good luck. The quietest one we ever had was a Carrier. But you don't really get a lot of control over that as a consumer.
 
shawn said:
Energy efficient is just math. SEER is just the energy it's "supposed" to use, divided by the energy it actually uses. That's best-case in a test environment. If you put the unit in an unconditioned attic, it's not going to be very efficient, and that has nothing to do with the numbers on the side of the box. Likewise, you could replace a 10 SEER unit with a 15, and if it's in an old house with shitty windows, it's probably not going to make much of a difference.

When you say "quieter", which part of the system are you talking about? Noise at the diffusers and returns is a design problem. High velocity equals noise. Variable speed fans can fix it, but they cost money. If you mean the condensing unit, good luck. The quietest one we ever had was a Carrier. But you don't really get a lot of control over that as a consumer.
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Sorry, What I mean is the fan and our outdoor unit. Our fan that we currently have in our air handler is a single speed fan that is loud as all get out. Our Air Handler is in a closet off the kitchen/dining room. The outdoor unit is much louder than most of what I hear at other peoples houses.
 
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If you are replacing the outdoor unit, the only real way to make it any quieter is to relocate it to some other side of the house away from any living or outdoor spaces as possible. dB levels are posted on manufacturers websites, so take a look at those. But generally, they are all loud and differences between each manufacturer is minimal
 
I've installed about 6 new split systems in the last year of a couple brands... None of them are noisy anymore and that being said I did go with a variable speed trane in my house and truthfully it's too quiet. I'd rather not hear the dog fart from across the house or every little noise outside when I'm in bed. I do like the variable speed though.
 
braxton357 said:
I've installed about 6 new split systems in the last year of a couple brands... None of them are noisy anymore and that being said I did go with a variable speed trane in my house and truthfully it's too quiet. I'd rather not hear the dog fart from across the house or every little noise outside when I'm in bed. I do like the variable speed though.
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You blame it on the dog too huh?
 
I've been Very pleased with my American Standard, going on 4 years now. Came in the Best price as compared to it's efficiency. Outside runs Very quite, & I guess Any unit would out-preform the 30 yo Carrier had. Only draw back,; just as All appliances, None of them will run 30 years, any more!
 
Just don't get a Pace unit ..... my OLD Trane was exponentially better than the Pace right up until the day it scattered itself across my back yard.


Matt
 
Find out what size unit you need and check Amazon. Seriously. The units are a LOT cheaper there for the same thing, then find someone to install it.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
At that point though, would the installer warranty it?
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If a licensed installer does the job for you, the manufacturer warranty is in full effect. The installer never warrantees anything other than that he did it correctly. The maker does, and only if a licensed installer does the job.

So if you need a unit like say, this one, a 2.5 ton split system by Bryant (it's a Carrier), one of the top-rated HVAC's you can buy, how much do you think an HVAC company would want for it? 4-5 grand, or even more?
How about $1,849.00 with free shipping?

So you pay a local company 500-1000 bucks to install, and you have your AC working for less than 3 grand, with full warranty.

https://www.amazon.com/Bryant-Carri...rd_wg=UL9pw&psc=1&refRID=D5BX56RMEECR82R0D5QZ



I did with with our water heater when we switched from propane to natural gas. Gas company dude came out and gave us an ass-raping price for converting our upstairs and downstairs heaters, and replacing the water heater when they hooked the gas up for us.

It was like $500 per heater, and he wanted $1,100 for the water heater.

I bought the conversion kits for about 75 bucks, my brother's neighbor does HVAC and installed them for a reasonable price.

Bought the EXACT same water heater that the gas company quoted me off Amazon.
$419.99, shipped. My brother and I installed it. Saved 700 bucks.

I don't mind people making some money, but I didn't want to buy the whole gas company.
 
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