Of no real benefit to society

[McCracken]

Ron reminded me about this conversation I had with my wife the other day. To preface this, I understand this is quite obvious for many but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

Basicsally, athletes, actors, musicians, etc. are nothing more than jesters in a king's court. They provide no real benefit to society beyond entertainment purposes. They're not doctors or engineers. People who do make real contributions to society that overall benefit mankind. Without the shitter and shitter treatment we'd be dead. Doctors and scientists provide health care and treatments. Mathematicians solve complex equations that will ultimately provide insight into new ways of facilitating engineering for space travel and so on and so on.

So what's the point of them? To provide us with 3 hours of entertainment to take away our thoughts on pressing issues? Drown out the internal nagging that the gutters aren't going to clean themselves? You tell me.

 

[GubNi]

Entertainment helps to keep the doctors and scientists focused by allowing them to have enjoyable down time.

 

[McCracken]

 

[Ron]

Well entertainment does relieve stress and provide an outlet for emotions and frustrations. Its a necessary evil in every society. People left with nothing to occupy their idle time will start doing things like feeding weaker huamns to lions and such.

Now the QBQ here is why does an athlete make millions and plumber Joe who prevents plague out breaks struggles to get by. Well the reason is simple, people pay to be entertained and that money has to go somewhere. Eventually if you take all the money away then the best wouldnt play the game. Which wouldnt necessarily be a horrendous thing.

I wish I could find it again but I read a great aticle once that basicaly the rise of entertainer glorification precipates the fall of most historically significant societies.

 

[PAT Ventures]

Saw the thread title & thought you were talking about me. I'll just move along...................

 

[UTfball68]

As a former SEC athlete, and was all county/conference/or state in 4 sports in high school...people are usually floored when I don't know the latest buzz from sportscenter, or how I couldn't possibly know the score from the 'big game' last night, or how I don't know every name of every kid who signed with 'my team'. I enjoyed beating the person across from me, if I couldn't, I worked harder, I enjoyed competition, so I played...as a coach now, I enjoy the chess match on the field, where my team may not be as talented, but by God we're still winning. Quite honestly, I think the modern fan is pretty pathetic and disgusting. Arm chair quarterbacks, get a life...you root for a school you have no ties to, get off the band wagon...if you think your opinion actually matters in the big business (and yes that's what it is, a business) of modern sports, it doesn't. IMO, what sports and entertainment have become today, is absolutely deplorable...but it's the mom's and dad's out there, that complain about it...but then will go buy their snot nosed little kid a Bieber CD to shut them up...or it's the guy that pisses and moans about being broke, but has the scratch for NFL network (or whatever the biggest tv package is for all the games) or drops the $500 for average seats and buys some beer and hot dogs...just to complain about the 3 dropped passes the receiver is paid $8MM/yr to catch.

 

[McCracken]

i can see that but why not get involved in something yourself? Sure I don't mind kicking back and watching TN flail through another season while enjoying some brews but most doctors and people of high stress positions are pretty active. Well, the ones I see around Asheville are. Most bike, run, hike, work out, etc. I don't necessarily see where some idle time would be a bad thing. It might actually get people more active and less complacent.

 

[UTfball68]

i can see that but why not get involved in something yourself? Sure I don't mind kicking back and watching TN flail through another season while enjoying some brews but most doctors and people of high stress positions are pretty active. Well, the ones I see around Asheville are. Most bike, run, hike, work out, etc. I don't necessarily see where some idle time would be a bad thing. It might actually get people more active and less complacent.

That's what I was saying...I am active, I'd rather wrench, camp, wheel, hike, coach, lift, yard work...in general just be outside. The only real sports/celebrity time I get on a day to day basis is whatever is on the tv as I walk out the door in the morning or as I walk back in.

 

[1-tonmudder]

If all the jocks,celebs depended on me to watch them theyd be hurtn.I did watch this years superbowl,only because my son ask me to watch it with him.I could care less what the latest sports poll say,who Taylor Swift is datin or whats goin on w the Kardashians.To me people who follow celebs have no life of their own.I just dont get why people idolize them like they do.I watch very little TV and about the only shows I make it a point to catch is American Pickers and The Walking dead.

 

[transman731]

Quite honestly, I think the modern fan is pretty pathetic and disgusting. Arm chair quarterbacks, get a life...you root for a school you have no ties to, get off the band wagon...if you think your opinion actually matters in the big business (and yes that's what it is, a business) of modern sports, it doesn't..

so because i have no physical ties to duke, i shouldn't be a duke fan?
my opinion doesn't actually matter in their big business, but the $40 i spend on the duke shirt does matter.

 

[UTfball68]

so because i have no physical ties to duke, i shouldn't be a duke fan?
my opinion doesn't actually matter in their big business, but the $40 i spend on the duke shirt does matter.

My opinion isn't a popular one, but yes, that's the way I feel. I personally, just don't understand the appeal to a team you have no stake in or ties to, or how one develops the affinity. And I'll agree, you're $40 does matter, but all the $40 tshirts that are sold are what perpetuates the 'importance' of sports and celebrities...but your opinion on what they do with that $40 or the coaching staff or their recruits, etc etc...means diddly squat. And let me clarify, I don't have as big of an issue with collegiate support, because that money plays a big part in the advancement of the university and local economy (and yes I understand local economy is helped at the professional level as well). Let's say you went to App St, but are a UNC fan...that's accepted. Now scale that back to high school, you graduated from high school X, but support high school Y on the other side of the state, or high school Z on the other side of the country...that's just weird, isn't it???

 

[Ron]

As a former SEC athlete, and was all county/conference/or state in 4 sports in high school...people are usually floored when I don't know the latest buzz from sportscenter, or how I couldn't possibly know the score from the 'big game' last night, or how I don't know every name of every kid who signed with 'my team'. I enjoyed beating the person across from me, if I couldn't, I worked harder, I enjoyed competition, so I played...as a coach now, I enjoy the chess match on the field, where my team may not be as talented, but by God we're still winning. Quite honestly, I think the modern fan is pretty pathetic and disgusting. Arm chair quarterbacks, get a life...you root for a school you have no ties to, get off the band wagon...if you think your opinion actually matters in the big business (and yes that's what it is, a business) of modern sports, it doesn't. IMO, what sports and entertainment have become today, is absolutely deplorable...but it's the mom's and dad's out there, that complain about it...but then will go buy their snot nosed little kid a Bieber CD to shut them up...or it's the guy that pisses and moans about being broke, but has the scratch for NFL network (or whatever the biggest tv package is for all the games) or drops the $500 for average seats and buys some beer and hot dogs...just to complain about the 3 dropped passes the receiver is paid $8MM/yr to catch.

Same perspective I gave in the original thread.

I did a fund raiser deal at Clemson a month back (right after National signing day) and a few of the current players were there. I watched some 45 year old push his was up to a sophomore in college and ask for an autograph...then asked him about the cant miss prospect that shenned "us" on NSD...this All American player looked at said fan, hid his disgust well and said, "I dont know man. I never seen him play. I promise you'll we'll be ok either way, we won last year while he was in high school."

Ben, don't worry I bet in a few more years you dont want to coach youth sports anymore either.... that gets old fast.

 

[transman731]

i can only speak for myself and how i grew to be a duke fan. when i moved to nc 20+ years ago i was not even a basketball fan, all of my friends were die hard carolina fans.after the first few times of sitting around and watching some games, i began to see the appeal of the sport of college basketball. what actually made me a duke fan was my friends hatred of duke and coach k's attitude towards coaching.

 

[UTfball68]

Let me preface by saying, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just have a different perspective than most. And if you're one of those sports purists who truly enjoy the fundamentals and sport of the game, I'm not talking about you...you're the minority.

Same perspective I gave in the original thread.

I did a fund raiser deal at Clemson a month back (right after National signing day) and a few of the current players were there. I watched some 45 year old push his was up to a sophomore in college and ask for an autograph...then asked him about the cant miss prospect that shenned "us" on NSD...this All American player looked at said fan, hid his disgust well and said, "I dont know man. I never seen him play. I promise you'll we'll be ok either way, we won last year while he was in high school.".

That was one of the weirdest things in my life, was when we'd do autograph signings, we'd have guys (and girls) twice, three times and some times 4 times your age that knew more about you than you did. It's tough to respect a 45 year old guy who knows my 40 time, my bench max, my class schedule, my gpa, etc etc. It's tough to condone that kind of behavior for a GAME, one I'd play whether there were no fans in the stand or 100k...yet that GAME takes priority for the guy, when he could be doing something waaaaaaaay more productive (I understand relaxing, but let's be real, how many guys plop on the couch on Saturday and watch sports all day and then again Sunday)...or to a sadder point, he is just pathetic enough, that he doesn't have anything else to do. It's just weird having a 40-50 year old guy look up to and/or idolize an 18-22 year old, or a 22-30 year old professional player.

Side note...I will say some of the most rewarding times for me were with the kids on kid days or at children's hospitals, when they're still too young and naive to realize that these athletes aren't super heros or idols...but it was still a great feeling walking in a room and that kid lying in the bed lit up because they felt like they were part of the team.

Ben, don't worry I bet in a few more years you dont want to coach youth sports anymore either.... that gets old fast.

This year was the first year I haven't played or coached football since I was 5...mainly because every parent thinks their kid is a super star. I took a team that went winless the previous 2 years in the 3rd/4th grade league...and went undefeated with them in the 5th/6th grade league two years in a row...and parents were still pissing and moaning about their kids playing time. So this year, I'm coaching my little sister's basketball team, undefeated to this point...it's a 6 girl squad...12 year old age group...we're averaging 58pts a game vs 14. This team is stacked, but I can see where that would get ruined if their were more girls or if they weren't as good.

 

[NC_IslandRunner]

Been a Duke fan since I was a little kid, the only Duke fan in a house of UNC fans. I know a UNC fan that hated Duke, until their doctors saved his life now he loves them! I toured the school as a kid and have cheered them on, I never disappear after a lose like UNC fans.

As for why pros make millions and plumber joe doesn't, Joe only fixes one pipe at a time, celebrities entertain millions at one time. If joe can figure out how to fix a million pipes in 3hrs I'm sure he will be rich too. Entertainment is important, without a way to relieve stress and enjoy life all the scientific discoveries in the universe are worthless. Everyone doesn't need celebrities to relax and be entertained, I find fishing on a island with no-one around or telling stories around a campfire in the mountains more relaxing but for most people who either won't or can't get out, we all have to find what makes us happy. Even if it's just screaming at an tv in March!

 

[McCracken]

Been a Duke fan since I was a little kid, the only Duke fan in a house of UNC fans. I know a UNC fan that hated Duke, until their doctors saved his life now he loves them! I toured the school as a kid and have cheered them on, I never disappear after a lose like UNC fans.

As for why pros make millions and plumber joe doesn't, Joe only fixes one pipe at a time, celebrities entertain millions at one time. If joe can figure out how to fix a million pipes in 3hrs I'm sure he will be rich too. Entertainment is important, without a way to relieve stress and enjoy life all the scientific discoveries in the universe are worthless. Everyone doesn't need celebrities to relax and be entertained, I find fishing on a island with no-one around or telling stories around a campfire in the mountains more relaxing but for most people who either won't or can't get out, we all have to find what makes us happy. Even if it's just screaming at an tv in March!

yeah but when Joe fixes the one pipe it helps all the others function and that could be up to a million pipes.

 

[Ron]

yeah but when Joe fixes the one pipe it helps all the others function and that could be up to a million pipes.

or if you want to start a communist discussion...if Joe doesnt fix that one pipe, bacteria grow the owner gets infected and then spreads the plague to millions

 

[NC_IslandRunner]

Or you call another plumber. Last time I called a plumber he had a pretty nice truck.

 

[McCracken]

or if you want to start a communist discussion...if Joe doesnt fix that one pipe, bacteria grow the owner gets infected and then spreads the plague to millions

maybe I should have stated Joe was more concerned with helping society than shaking his ass for money or running the game winning touchdown so Ben could feel like he's actually a part of the team

 

[1-tonmudder]

I was thinkin about this again while waitin in line to pick my son up at school.Some athletes/celebs take their fame and fortune and start organizations or charitites that benefit the handicapped,elderly,or abused/neglected children(to name a few) and those people would be a benefit to society.If not for their fame they could have been severely limited to what they could have done for society or not have contributed at all.So to lump them all together as "no real benefit" is not exactly right.

 

[McCracken]

I was thinkin about this again while waitin in line to pick my son up at school.Some athletes/celebs take their fame and fortune and start organizations or charitites that benefit the handicapped,elderly,or abused/neglected children(to name a few) and those people would be a benefit to society.If not for their fame they could have been severely limited to what they could have done for society or not have contributed at all.So to lump them all together as "no real benefit" is not exactly right.

I see what you're saying but I'd like to see the percentages. What if 25% started a charity? I'd say that'd do some real good. Unfortunately, Flutie Flakes can only help so many. I'd say that percentage is closer to 10% if that. I am glad you caught my "real" comment though. I'm not saying they don't provide some benefit but "real" benefit has yet to be seen.

 

[UTfball68]

I was thinkin about this again while waitin in line to pick my son up at school.Some athletes/celebs take their fame and fortune and start organizations or charitites that benefit the handicapped,elderly,or abused/neglected children(to name a few) and those people would be a benefit to society.If not for their fame they could have been severely limited to what they could have done for society or not have contributed at all.So to lump them all together as "no real benefit" is not exactly right.

Oh c'mon now...very few throw down more than what it takes to be used as a tax shelter, or to pay their boys from the hood, who are now sitting on the board of that charity.

 

[1-tonmudder]

Oh c'mon now...very few throw down more than what it takes to be used as a tax shelter, or to pay their boys from the hood, who are now sitting on the board of that charity.

I didnt say the intent was always genuine but regardless of the true intent (and Im sure your right to some degree) theirs a chance the public could benefit from their charities.I always wondered how many would give to causes if there would be no public reconition???

 

[the-bearded-manche']

endless entertainment

 

[Ron]

Oh c'mon now...very few throw down more than what it takes to be used as a tax shelter, or to pay their boys from the hood, who are now sitting on the board of that charity.

Actually I'll disagree here quite strongly.
Lets just look in the Charltte area.

I can rattle off plenty NASCAR drivers that give in the 7 figures annually (Kahn, Gordon, Johnson, Earnhardt, Stewart, Busch, Petty to name a few)
Steve Smith (another athlete I despise who I know personally) Gives ~$1MM year to help provide sports uniforms to kids who can afford them.
The Jake Delhomme fund is still going strong.
Moose is still doing his.

Granted all these guys do get tax deductions for their efforts and employ some personal friends and side tail, but they do good deeds as well.

Thats one thing I believ you might actually be shocked by, for the most part the guys who make it in the League are better human eings than the ones I played with and I assume you did in college.