OK to use chains?

Maverick, if its not safe to snatch on a strap a little bit, then what do those of us that dont have winches do when we get stuck? Theres not a whole lot of vehicles that are going to pull my k5 blazer out of some deep mud without a bit of a running start. Should I park my rig until I have $1300 to invest in a 12k lb winch?
 
ShyHiK5 said:
Uhh a 9k winch is not proper recovery equipment for a K5 sorry!
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Works just fine if you use a snatch block and double line it. ( 18K and half the speed )

Much easier on the winch motor and charging system too.
 
A rolling vehicle will have a resistance (at worst up a steep ass hill) of say 900 lbs.
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I don't know who's ass you pulled that number out of, but assuredly it's wrong.

Now, you guys need to go back and read the question again. He's asking if it's ok to pull a vehicle, WITHOUT SNATCHING, out of the mud. I don't know where you guys are from, but where I am from, we use chains all of the time.

We use them on the Fire Dept. when we're doing extrication, on the farm where a strap isn't strong enough to pull a stuck combine out of the mud, logging (dragging full trees out of the woods), and even pulling trucks out of the mud.

However, we have sense and DON'T snatch on it, and we use a properly rated chain for the job. I for one have a chain on my offroad truck that has links that are 1/2" in diameter. Yes, it's overkill, but with chains, overkill is insurance. This is one of the chains we pull combines out with, so I have no doubt that it will hold.

For all of you naysayers that have seen the idiots that snatch on chains, that's simply Darwin at work.

When I'm stuck though, give me a chain and/or a winch, but leave that strap in the truck. I've seen more of them fail than anything else.
 
but straps don't kill people when they break... and as for a strap breaking. I personally have straps that are over 16" wide and can move any damn tree/log/car/ hell even a k5 blazer with ease.

chains kill folks when used as recovery equipment.
 
Few reason why chains, hooks on straps, ect should not be used
http://www.jeepaholics.com/support/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32986
http://www.southernhighrollers.com/tips/articles/a_near_miss_from.htm


I know the first to links show straps, the picture is of a chain
a good read on recovery http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/



730353_116_full.jpg
 
Aight, so you guys are saying that all of these pieces of heavy equipment, or equipment period, riding down the highway chained down on a trailer are not safe then?

It's the same principle, and the forces of a vehicle stopping can exert the same amount of strain on a chain.

All I'm saying is that if a chain is not snatched on, then there is no option for failure if you are using a properly rated chain, attachment point, and the chain itself has been maintained and inspected regularly.
 
Let's just face it. Anything be it a strap or a chain or even a winch wire rope, when used to recover a stuck vehicle has the ability to fail with devastating results as those mentioned above. I have seen both a strap and a chain fail and luckly no one was in the "danger zone" though a chain left a nasty gash and a busted window on my friends Xterra. As far as the heavy equipment be tied down to a trailer with chains yes this is true and yes I have also witness a failure of those chains as well. Again I am sure all of these failures were due to poor maintenance of the equipment but I can not say that is a fact. Just please have enough sense and DON'T try to snatch with a chain. And remember if you do try to snatch something out of the muck and it fails after the first or maybe even second try you should try a different method even if this means leaving the vehicle stuck overnight.

[begin whore]This topic reminds me of how much I need to buy a Hi-Lift Jack anyone know where I can get a good deal on one?[/end whore]
 
maulcruiser said:
Picked mine up at Agri-Supply for $54, tax included. It is the 60" non-cast model.
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yup, yup. I am getting out of this thread b/c I've said what I know and hope it helps those who listened... oh yeah- I'm on my way in to haul equipment on my truck :flipoff2: :driver:
 
Ive never owned a winch on any vehicle but from what Im hearing, a tree saver and a block can greatly increase the power of a winch, even double it? Would a 8k lb winch and a tree saver/ block be a decent setup for my k5 (as long as I only get stuck around trees?)
 
You don't have to stay around trees. I've seen people bury tires to use as a winch point. It's not totally safe, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. There's also another tool, I can't recall it's name, but it's basically a spade with an anchor on it. As you pull on it, it digs into the ground, provided it's deep and solid enough. I have seen them just get pulled towards the vehicle while leaving a trench in the dirt.

But yes, a block will double the pulling power of the winch, but line speed and cable length are cut in half.
 
That device you're not sure of the name of is called a Pull-Pal.

This thread has about run the gamut from sensible to confrontational. Bottom line is that chains have their places, and as long as you're using a chain, strap, rope, greasy string, dildo, etc. for what it's designed and rated to do, you're doing just fine.

I'm not into this chain thing anyway, but whips.....now that's another thing altogether.:D
 
I just hope you folks talking about doubling a winches cap. Know what you are doing, an you know the difference between , 2 to 1, an 3to1 an so on, an are not just changing directions.
 
Nissan11 said:
Can you explain maverick?
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the only way to double the capacity is to hook the winch back to the vehicle using a snatch block...

if you use a snatch block and hook to a tree or another vehicle, you DO NOT double the capacity, you just change the direction of the pull...

Greg
 
That is correct.

Side note:
When you double the pull by hooking back on the winch bumper (or mount) - you BETTER have your mess connected correctly.
Because you also double the stress on the winch mounting.

It is not a pretty thing to watch a rig pull it's whole nose off or twist a frame.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. But I have a question. If the cable goes through a block straight in front of the vehicle but is not doubled back to the bumper but hooked to another tree saver just to one side of the vehicle (say the cable makes a 45 degree angle at the first tree saver), then wont that increase the winch power by some? I would think there should be a point where the power starts to increase the closer the cable is hooked back toward the vehicle. If not, I find it suprising there is an angle where the winch power goes from normal straight to 2x the power within a couple of degrees.
 
Nissan11 said:
Thanks for clearing that up. But I have a question. If the cable goes through a block straight in front of the vehicle but is not doubled back to the bumper but hooked to another tree saver just to one side of the vehicle (say the cable makes a 45 degree angle at the first tree saver), then wont that increase the winch power by some? I would think there should be a point where the power starts to increase the closer the cable is hooked back toward the vehicle. If not, I find it suprising there is an angle where the winch power goes from normal straight to 2x the power within a couple of degrees.
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it's not the angle (see the howstuffworks link)...

it's the fact that both connections are on the same object...

Greg
 
bigwaylon said:
it's not the angle (see the howstuffworks link)...
it's the fact that both connections are on the same object...
Greg
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me? It has everything to do with the angle. It doesnt matter what it's connected to. if your anchor is at 45 degrees to what you are pulling, then the pulling force will increase by 50%. if your anchor is directly in front of what you are pulling, for instance hooked to your rig, then the pulling force is increased by 100%, or doubled. it's all in the howstuffworks link.
 
Deuce 40s said:
Are you kidding me? It has everything to do with the angle. It doesnt matter what it's connected to. if your anchor is at 45 degrees to what you are pulling, then the pulling force will increase by 50%. if your anchor is directly in front of what you are pulling, for instance hooked to your rig, then the pulling force is increased by 100%, or doubled. it's all in the howstuffworks link.
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um...did you read the article?


astatic.howstuffworks.com_gif_bt1.gif



astatic.howstuffworks.com_gif_bt2.gif



How Stuff Works said:
Does this change anything? Not really. The only thing that changes is the direction of the force you have to apply to lift the weight. You still have to apply 100 pounds of force to keep the weight suspended, and you still have to reel in 100 feet of rope in order to lift the weight 100 feet.
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it still takes 100 lbs to pull it, whether it's straight ahead or at the angle shown in the second pic...

multiple pulleys start to decrease speed and increase capacity...as does hooking it back to the same object...

so "no", I'm not kidding you...:D

Greg
 
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