Or else what?!?!?

It goes back to something my mother told me a long time ago. "If you act like a thug, expect people to treat you like a thug."

What seems to have people all up in arms is the obvious size disparity between the officer and the girl. They rail on how a "300 lb muscle bound officer throws her around like a rag doll" (per the lawyer talking-head trying to get him fired and win a healthy lawsuit), but yet when asked to comply - she didn't seem fazed by the fact that he is obviously bigger then her, armed, in a Sheriff's uniform and there on the request of the administration in an official capacity.

And I'm sorry, but if that officer weighs "300 lbs", then I must weigh like 800. He even has at least three cameras on him and as you know, the camera adds 10 pounds... o_O

What irritates me the most is the politicians (HRC, BHO, etc) already placing the focus on "schools should be a safe place - the students shouldn't be afraid of the SRO's". Which is exactly the problem. Should they be afraid of them for no reason? No. Should they be afraid of consequences? YES. This is where the parents have failed.
 
Reid said:
Okay.....
I'm a bouncer in a bar. I find myself in the same predicament A LOT. i ask a patron to leave, they say fuck off.

As getting them out of the bar is my job, i cant just "fuck off". Ive got to find a way to get them out of the bar. There are certain steps of escalation i can take. use a firm voice and repeat my request for the offender to leave. with a light touch, using only the tips of my finger, apply pressure to the offenders back and guide him to the door.


if the above doesnt work, i find myself in that "or else what" moment.

Im at the end of my legal rope. I still have an unruly person in the bar and i'd like to keep my job.

It always ends with the offender leaving the bar.

I think the cops (this cop included) find themselves in the same place. They've given an order and it has been denied. what to do next? just like me, the situation HAS to end with the offender complying with the order. what other tools did the officer have available?
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I get it. I bounced for a few years as well. Its a tough fine line to walk.
However when I took a job as a bouncer they handed me a shirt and a radio and said start tomorrow night. They didnt send me to 12 weeks of school to specifically teach me physcological and physical tactics to deal with these situations. As a licensed LEO he is held to a higher standard than you or I in a bar. He should have been able to remove her without putting her on the ground, frankly.

BTW none of this changes the fact that she is a POS who needed to be slammed down and taught to respect authority.
 
I am of the opinion that the girl got what she asked for. The deputy is trained to handle situations on his own. There is no need to call for back up, and take other deputies from more pressing law enforcement issues to deal with a spoiled, self-centered child. The deputy acted in accordance to his training and experience. What we don't have is the department policy on procedures for use of force. Did he act according to the departments SOP? MY GUESS IS YES. Most departments SOP says that the least necessary amount of force used must be administered to effectively reach an outcome that returns peace and order.
It does seem in the video that the girl added to the drama of the take down by flinging her body to a degree, much like a baby does during a temper tantrum.
I don't think there should be any disciplinary action taken against the deputy (though there most likely will be due to the political pressure of working for a sheriff's office) . Nor against the school administrators. They all had reached a point where the "or else" threshold had been breached. The SRO was called there because the administrators had reached the extent of what they could physically do, this was a disruption to the rest of the class and prevented the school from doing what they are supposed to do ( which is teach). The child made the decision to escalate this compliance issue into a criminal offence and she was treated as such.
The deputy was doing what he was hired to do, and doing what the administrators called him there to do. Now once again the liberal media and the mis-informed, and disillusioned parents, who failed to do their jobs in teaching Their children about respect for themselves,and others including the authority established to ensure order and the proper exercise of the rights of others, wants to hang the SRO for doing what we asked him to do. We want law enforcement to maintain order and keep our rights from being infringed upon, but then cry and complain when they do it.
Our society is backwards.
 
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There is also no indication as to the time frame here. The teacher asking her to get off her phone, to contacting the administration and having them come down to contacting the SRO and having the incident play out. Unless the administrator and SRO "happened" to be directly outside the class room, this was not just a quick, "what just happened?" I can't believe that she was surprised like, "I don't even know what I did wrong".
 
On one video angle, it appears that she hits the SRO in the head right before the desk inverts...... Find the one that is beside/slightly behind and watch her right arm/hand.
 
ManglerYJ said:
What irritates me the most is the politicians (HRC, BHO, etc) already placing the focus on "schools should be a safe place - the students shouldn't be afraid of the SRO's". Which is exactly the problem.
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I think this is the root of all the problems we are discussing here. In every authoritative role there HAS to be fear. People don't fear police because they know they'll end up on tv and being the victim. Hell, even the real bad guys don't fear going to jail because they know they'll be right back out tomorrow. Kids don't fear teachers and administration because there is not much they can do. This is the reason we have SRO's in the first place. But it all boils down to the parents. I don't want my kids scared of me, but there needs to be a level of fear there. If you instill this when there little, it stays with them for life. Think of the elephant and the chain.

When I was in school they "paddled". I wasn't worried about that part though. I was worried about going home!
 
NCJeeplover said:
When I was in school they "paddled". I wasn't worried about that part though. I was worried about going home!
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THIS. Unfortunately, if "Wait until your father gets home..." means waiting until he's released from jail himself, then it kinda loses it's gravitas.
 
I agree about the fear. But the operative word is RESPECT. I was taught and I teach my children to respect authority. It is established not to ruin them or their good time, but to assist them in being the best they can be.
A train must submit to authority of its tracks. The train can operate outside the restrictions of its rail, but not effectively and not for very long.
As long as the train operates within that restriction it's going operate in its most effective way.
 
Something amazingly simple made incredibly complex for no reason. (it's actually Biblical as well).

Respect Authority, Fear Consequences.
 
There are 2 kinds of fear motivation.
1- People do what you say because they fear the punishment.
2- People do what you say because they fear disappointing you.

2 is powerful and forever self sustaining. 1 is temporary and destined to fail.
 
Ron said:
There are 2 kinds of fear motivation.
1- People do what you say because they fear the punishment.
2- People do what you say because they fear disappointing you.

2 is powerful and forever self sustaining. 1 is temporary and destined to fail.
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I would call #1 fear and #2 respect.

I drive the speed limit because I don't want to get a ticket, pay court costs and have my insurance go up, not because I don't want the police officer to be disappointed in me for getting caught. I'm still afraid of the consequences, not of the authority figure.
 
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85hinuff said:
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 13:7
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Amen.
People can discredit the bible all they want, but it's VERY clear in scripture how important discipline is. Not just a stern talking to either.
 
Well, at least nobody should be able to call the Sheriff's Office out on enforcing the legendary "Thin Blue Line" where officers all protect each other. The sheriff seems to be throwing the deputy under the bus already. About the only thing I agree with the sheriff is that the officer should never have even been called. It should have been handled by the school. The parent/guardian should have been called instead of the SRO.
 
ManglerYJ said:
I would call #1 fear and #2 respect.

I drive the speed limit because I don't want to get a ticket, pay court costs and have my insurance go up, not because I don't want the police officer to be disappointed in me for getting caught. I'm still afraid of the consequences, not of the authority figure.
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The second you got out on a long straight road with no chance of getting pulled over you'll drive 100 mph. Guaranteed. We all would.
 
ManglerYJ said:
No fear of consequences....
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Yep. It's natural instinct. Certain people today have nothing to fear and feel like they can get away murder. (OJ).

I'll stop right there. I've lost my appetite.

I'm in the heart of the city where this incident happened and am watching a side others may not be. In person. Done.
 
Excessive force maybe, was it necessary maybe not.

Did she have it coming for acting like all the other motards in the media lately that are being glorified for ignoring, disrespecting law enforcement and getting there butts handed to them. YEP
 
The sad thing is that sheriff only says that he did not follow the prescribed training, but couldn't really specify what he was supposed to do instead.

So why could he not have been disciplined, moved to a different role where he would not be dealing with juveniles, or given a desk job? You mean to tell me that his 10 years of service and all the training the department spent on him are all worthless because of a spoiled kid ?
 
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ManglerYJ said:
The sad thing is that sheriff only says that he did not follow the prescribed training, but couldn't really specify what he was supposed to do instead.

So why could he have been disciplined, moved to a different role where he would not be dealing with juveniles, or given a desk job? You mean to tell me that his 10 years of service and all the training the department spent on him are all worthless because of a spoiled kid ?
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No. It is worthless because of his horrible judgement in a stressful situation.
If he reacted this way to a kid with a phone next time he might draw a weapon and we have Charleston, SC all over again.
 
I'm just guessing the girl and the officer had confrontations before this AND she had been causing trouble for a while and upping the anti all the time w her "I'm a badass" tude. I've seen it before, youngsters act bad to get attention and think that makes them cool. They should never have taken paddles out of schools...........I remember one principal who had 3 large, custom butt smackers made by students in the wood shop class hanging on his wall and he used them VERY effectively.........

The paddles were 1/2 to 1" thick, all had holes drilled in them, you could hear them whistle when he swung it.
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