Project: Tetanus Shot - 1948 Willys

[BigSouth]

Not much done last night because of the poker game(I broke even..) but I was able to get the transmission crossmember reinstalled. It's was a little tricky but I managed to get everything fully bolted down. Today the plan is to fill the trans/transfer and get the rear on jackstands and see what happens.

Video or it’s a lie...

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Video or it’s a lie...

There will be video....for better or worse

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Well, hit a bit of a roadblock. @getstucksome came over and helped me get the timing set. Currently timing is set to 0 and it still won't crank. Getting spark at all six plugs. I'm about 99.5% sure that I am getting way too much fuel into the TBI.

Let me explain. When I started looking for a inline fuel pump, pirate4x4 pointed me at a carter p5000 inline pump. This pump flows at a max of 75psi. Multiple people said they ran this pump with their 4.3l TBI and had no issues. Of course I have issues . The TBI unit needs a psi of around 9-13 . Obviously, I am over pressurized and the fuel is blowing past the regulator in the tbi unit. This results in ALL the fuel being dumped into the TBI unit, no pulse, no modulation. Just a full cone of fuel being pushed into the motor. I got the motor to stumble and "fire" after disconnecting the injector wires and it running on gas that was in the manifold. Additionally, I would have gas coming out of the exhaust in decent quantities. Another bit of damning evidence was the return line having a solid stream of fuel when the pump was primed, instead of a little dribble.

So, I've got another pump on order that flows a max psi of 14. Plan is to pick it up this afternoon and get it installed. Here's hoping it will start right up...

 

[R Q]

Well, hit a bit of a roadblock. @getstucksome came over and helped me get the timing set. Currently timing is set to 0 and it still won't crank. Getting spark at all six plugs. I'm about 99.5% sure that I am getting way too much fuel into the TBI.

Let me explain. When I started looking for a inline fuel pump, pirate4x4 pointed me at a carter p5000 inline pump. This pump flows at a max of 75psi. Multiple people said they ran this pump with their 4.3l TBI and had no issues. Of course I have issues . The TBI unit needs a psi of around 9-13 . Obviously, I am over pressurized and the fuel is blowing past the regulator in the tbi unit. This results in ALL the fuel being dumped into the TBI unit, no pulse, no modulation. Just a full cone of fuel being pushed into the motor. I got the motor to stumble and "fire" after disconnecting the injector wires and it running on gas that was in the manifold. Additionally, I would have gas coming out of the exhaust in decent quantities. Another bit of damning evidence was the return line having a solid stream of fuel when the pump was primed, instead of a little dribble.

So, I've got another pump on order that flows a max psi of 14. Plan is to pick it up this afternoon and get it installed. Here's hoping it will start right up...

You have a return line right? I am running a Walbro that pumps 40-60 psi. The 14 psi pump will not let my motor run. I have a WALBRO gsl 395 YOU CAN BORROW TO TRY IF YOU WANT.. Sorry for the caps, I hit a button and ain't changing it.
Edit: just saw that you have a return line. Something is amiss...

 

[YJJPWrangler]

You have a return line right? I am running a Walbro that pumps 40-60 psi. The 14 psi pump will not let my motor run. I have a WALBRO gsl 395 YOU CAN BORROW TO TRY IF YOU WANT.. Sorry for the caps, I hit a button and ain't changing it.
Edit: just saw that you have a return line. Something is amiss...

Something is amiss and I don't know what. I ordered an AirTex E8153 which flows at 14psi

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-electric-fuel-pump-e8153/18770076-P

I'm supposed to pick it up today from Advance and will get it installed tonight. We will see what happens. What year motor is yours @R Q ? Could the injectors be possibly stuck open? The return line was a solid stream of fuel after turning the key on, not a dribble.

 

[Jeff B]

Seems like I used an airtec e2000 with my 4.3 TBI

 

[R Q]

Something is amiss and I don't know what. I ordered an AirTex E8153 which flows at 14psi

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

I'm supposed to pick it up today from Advance and will get it installed tonight. We will see what happens. What year motor is yours @R Q ? Could the injectors be possibly stuck open? The return line was a solid stream of fuel after turning the key on, not a dribble.

Well my old motor was a 91 tbi but this one is the same throttle body but a Vortec block and heads with 4bbl intake. Your injectors are controlled by the PCM. If they have a nice cone then they should be good. There are 5 different injectors for GM TBI with different flow rates and many parts guys don't even know that but since yours is a take out from another rig that ran they should be for the 4.3.
Heres a good site for info Harris Performance, INC | GM Fuel injection for the average guy
and also Hamilton Fuel Injection
Be careful about throwing parts at it. I replaced many sensors and finally found out I had a bad PCM. $90 and then a new chip from Howell TBI and it fixed what I couldn't in over a year. You may decide that it's a MAP sensor gone bad and as I remember they are about $30. I don't think there is a way to test them to be sure if they are good or not. If your stuff is all original or at least old (because these motors are close to 30 years old now) then replacing a few sensors is not all bad.
What year is your motor again?

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Well my old motor was a 91 tbi but this one is the same throttle body but a Vortec block and heads with 4bbl intake. Your injectors are controlled by the PCM. If they have a nice cone then they should be good. There are 5 different injectors for GM TBI with different flow rates and many parts guys don't even know that but since yours is a take out from another rig that ran they should be for the 4.3.
Heres a good site for info Harris Performance, INC | GM Fuel injection for the average guy
and also Hamilton Fuel Injection
Be careful about throwing parts at it. I replaced many sensors and finally found out I had a bad PCM. $90 and then a new chip from Howell TBI and it fixed what I couldn't in over a year. You may decide that it's a MAP sensor gone bad and as I remember they are about $30. I don't think there is a way to test them to be sure if they are good or not. If your stuff is all original or at least old (because these motors are close to 30 years old now) then replacing a few sensors is not all bad.
What year is your motor again?

My motor is a 91 out of a S10 Blazer.

I got the new pump hooked up last night and it helped but still didn't run. With this new pump I am seeing a slight pulse from the injectors whereas the old pump was just a solid cone. I pulled the pressure regulator off last night and pulled it apart. This is what I found.

The spring wasn't broken but it doesn't look that great. Advance has a new one for $30 so I'm going to get one. I don't think its a bad PCM as I had my harness cut down by Jim's Performance and he tested everything and told me everything was good. The MAF sensor is probably another good bet as its the original and hasn't been replaced.

 

[Caver Dave]

I've converted 3 different engine to TBI and all used e2000 pumps (depending on the brand, all push 75#-90#).
The regulator in the TB should and will bleed anything greater than the 15# needed back down the return line, so if'n you think it's getting past the regulator, pull it apart and rebuild it!
There are cheap rebuild kits and aftermarket adjustable kits available...

 

[rockcity]

A bad MAF shouldn’t cause it to do what you are experiencing to that level; it should just adjust the mixture to lean it out but it sounds like an issue that’s beyond the parameters controlled by the MAF sensor.

You can unplug the MAF sensor and see if it changes the condition.

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Two steps forward, 10 steps backwards. If you read my other thread concerning my cranking issues, you could see that I was having issues getting the motor to run at all. Long story short, I borrowed a bore snake camera and looked into each cylinder through the spark plug and rotated the motor over by hand. A good amount of my intake and exhaust valves were not closing fully. I then went and relashed all of my rocker arms based on the Chilton book/advice from here. I still was not getting them to seal all the way. So I decided to pull the heads.

Got both heads pulled and found a lot of scoring and carbon buildup everywhere. Unfortunately I also found a LOT of metal shavings. They were BB like in nature but tiny and were everywhere, especially in the oil galleries. I also pulled a lot of sludge from the water jackets. The cylinder walls were not scored but I was very worried about all of the metal I was finding. At this point, I figured I could pull the valves, install new ones and redeck the heads.

Keep in mind, when I got this motor, it had been sitting for an unknown number of years(inside at least) and the PO did not know its condition.

Enter @R Q. He offered up a spare motor from his Jeepster that he rebuilt last year. 90-91, same block, etc. All I need to do is swap accessories and drop my intake on it. So I pulled the rest of the motor last night. I also found out where all my missing gas went....the oil pan. The pan was probably 50% gas/oil and was overfilled by a lot.

I need to finish pulling the clutch and motor mounts off the old motor and get it "stored". Wife wants me to sell it but at this point I think it would only be useful as a core for a rebuild. I plan on picking up the motor in a week or so and then it should be drop in, hook everything up and run.

Not having the motor running has been the roadblock of this build. I can't finish the following because of it. Steering bleed, exhaust, gauges, transmission/transfer case etc.

Goal is:
-Motor installed/running/adjust clutch linkage.
-Cage/Seats
-Finish Brakes
-Exhaust

That should get me running and driving and then I'll have plenty of small stuff to finish but at least I can move it around.

 

[R Q]

"Enter RQ" Yep, Zack get's this motor that has taken me through everything... F-ing everything! Can you have feelings for motor?... Yes I do! Maiden voyage, I'm there!

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Well that was a long weekend. Not too many pictures because I was way too busy under the jeep and fighting a summer cold. I got the old motor pulled out

And met up with @R Q on Friday afternoon. We then proceeded to get his motor ready by priming the oil pump. Don't prime your oil pump with an impact or bad things happen...

$15 later and an hour or so later I got the motor primed and ready to go. The wife helped me install the motor Saturday afternoon and I spent most of Sunday hooking up the accessories. True to his word @R Q guaranteed the motor would run. It fired right up and idled pretty well(although a bit high). I suspect I have a few vacuum leaks that I need to chase down.



Pretty happy with the new motor. There were some minor differences between the blocks but I had enough spare parts to make everything work. I still need to fill it with coolant, fix vacuum leaks, and fine time it but it cranks and revs now. I do need to adjust my clutch as my tires do slowly rotate while its running but that shouldn't be difficult. Next few days will be spent getting the motor dialed in and finish bleeding the steering. I do need to get some soft brake lines made and then I'll have brakes. Only stuff left is cage, exhaust, seats, and wrap up the gauges...

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Not a whole lot of progress done but managed to get the steering pretty much finished. Been playing with the motor a bit more trying to get it dialed in. It almost seems like it starts to "jump" the timing. I'll get it to TDC at 0 degrees and run it. While its running, I'll advance the distributor to get it running better. After its running for a bit, turn it off, turn it on etc for 2-3 times and then it sputters and dies and won't run anymore. I do have the timing wire disconnected from the computer, should I plug that back in?

In other news, I'm seriously considering building my own exhaust. When I picked up the motor from @R Q, I crawled underneath his Jeepster to see how his exhaust was ran. It gave me some good ideas. Looks like all I would need are a couple 90s, 45s, and a few straight pieces of tube. My plan is to run dual pipes down both framerails and then tie them together into the muffler just past the rear axle. I eyeballed everything last night and it seems like it would be easily doable and pretty cheap to do.

 

[rockcity]

I’d run your own exhaust. It’s not hard. Bends can be bought cheap and easily welded. Install a few V band clamps for easy dissemble and it’s pretty straight forward.

 

[paulevans76]

Time it warm. I had this issue with my TBI motor. Mine wouldn't go into closed loop when idling, had to run it around the block to kick into closed loop, then I set timing (ETC disco'd as well).

 

[YJJPWrangler]

That makes sense. Right now I can't drive it. No brakes etc. So, ideally, I could set it to 0 degrees, let it idle and warm up(temp gauge works yay) and then time it, then reconnect the ETC. Correct?

Additionally, I found that my radiator has a hole in it . Didn't have one in it the last time I filled it up and now its got a pinhole leak in it.

 

[R Q]

That makes sense. Right now I can't drive it. No brakes etc. So, ideally, I could set it to 0 degrees, let it idle and warm up(temp gauge works yay) and then time it, then reconnect the ETC. Correct?

Additionally, I found that my radiator has a hole in it . Didn't have one in it the last time I filled it up and now its got a pinhole leak in it.

Are you sure your distributor and pcm are good? And is your 02 sensor in place and hooked up? We never had to warm it up for start ups.

 

[Jeff B]

Are you sure your distributor and pcm are good? And is your 02 sensor in place and hooked up? We never had to warm it up for start ups.

Knock sensor hooked up?

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Are you sure your distributor and pcm are good? And is your 02 sensor in place and hooked up? We never had to warm it up for start ups.

Distributor and PCM are good. Just because, I installed another PCM I have and it did the same. It will run after I set the timing to 0 degrees. I can then adjust the distributor to make it idle better and it will run for as long as I want it to. The problem occurs after several starts.

Knock sensor hooked up?

No it is not. On this motor, the port for the knock sensor is down near the oil filter. I need to lengthen the knock sensor wire so it will reach. Sounds like that might be the issue since you went right to it and I know that it isn't hooked up.

 

[paulevans76]

On mine, for some reason, the 02 sensor would not get warm enough when idling to kick it into closed loop. At some point I just need to upgrade to a heated sensor. You may not be able to really dial it in until you get your sensors all in place.

Also, are you saying that after you time it, then let it run, kill it, start it back, etc a few cycles, that the ETC is still unplugged? Or do you plug it back in once you set the timing?

 

[YJJPWrangler]

On mine, for some reason, the 02 sensor would not get warm enough when idling to kick it into closed loop. At some point I just need to upgrade to a heated sensor. You may not be able to really dial it in until you get your sensors all in place.

Also, are you saying that after you time it, then let it run, kill it, start it back, etc a few cycles, that the ETC is still unplugged? Or do you plug it back in once you set the timing?

Correct the ETC was still unplugged. So I think I need to hook up the knock sensor, set the initial timing and then plug the ETC in? Should I plug the ETC in while the motor is running or off?

 

[R Q]

What are y'all calling the ETC? Get all sensors in place and hooked up, cooling system intact, exhaust intact. everything plugged in. Set timing at TDC and go. It will not run with out it all being plugged in and ready to go. It's a brain that needs input from all sensors to operate correctly

 

[a_kelley]

Etc. Engine timing connector.

Set timing with etc disconnected, 0* I believe. Then plug it back up. I'll look it up if you give me an original application.

O2 shouldn't affect it too much, unless the sensor is faulty. Try it with the sensor unplugged, it may be learning pig rich or lean as can be. Wife's zj had a bad o2 - no code, except a system lean code.. and it was getting 6-9 mpg.. until I unplugged it and reset trims. Surprised me! (Oh and it's still unplugged, getting 16 mpg local, low mid 20's highway)

Fuel or coolant contamination can cause the o2 to still read, but be way off stoic at "normal" center voltage.

 

[YJJPWrangler]

Back on it last night. Spent a good amount of time underneath the jeep with a tape measure and a piece of pipe trying to figure out the exhaust placement. Keep in mind, driver side framerail is where my fuels lines run and passenger side framerail is electrical connections to the battery. I have three options that I see and would like some opinions on it.

1. Run duals alongside both frame rails and then tie them together just before the rear axle. The flowmaster muffler I got from @R Q will most likely not work as its pretty big so I would have to go to tube style muffler.
Pros- Less bends, no interference with front/rear driveshaft.
Cons- Would have to exhaust wrap the driver side for sure, plus make a heat shield the entire length of the frame rail for the fuel lines

2. Run driver side between bellhousing and transmission(it's exactly 2.5" wide) and then up and over front driveshaft to a Y then travel the length of the pass side framerail.
Pros- Less pipe overall, stays away from fuel lines
Cons - LOTS of bends, possible interference with driveshaft at full stuff.

3. Run passenger side down between bellhousing and transmission, then Y into driver side framerail and run alongside framerail to muffler
Pros- Less pipe overall, pretty common route for other Willys builds with the 4.3
Cons- Right next to the fuel lines, lot of bends

I'm leaning to running true duals and getting a smaller muffler. However I'm concerned with running a 4' piece of exhaust inches away from the fuel line. Am I being overly cautious? Or will exhaust wrap plus a heatshield work for this?

Opinions please....